Teachin'Mine
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Posts posted by Teachin'Mine
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I shared what may be helpful to either the OP or to others who are wondering about letters of recommendation as well. Many homeschoolers take a class or two at a local college specifically to have someone who can recommend them and speak to their abilities as related to a college class setting. Some of these students have no option but to take a large lecture hall type of class or may even need to take the class online. While I'm sure that they will go out of their way to make themselves known to the professor, the ability to do so may be somewhat limited depending upon the circumstances. For professors with hundreds of students in lecture and a time lapse of several months to a year, it may well be that they won't remember specifics about a particular student when the recommendation is actually needed. I would venture to say that the majority would not feel insulted by a student discussing time frames with them.
Maybe it's helpful to put this in perspective with the usual recommenders for high school seniors. The usual recommenders are high school teachers who have contact with that student in class five days a week (180 days) vs a college class which may meet 1/3 to 1/5 to 1/12, as many times. But from what I understand, even hs teachers will ask for additional information if it would be helpful. And I would think that if for some reason a student wanted to ask a 10th grade teacher for a recommendation, then it would be natural to have a catch up session to refresh their memory and inform them of their recent academics. goals, involvements, and achievements. Having all of this available to give them in writing is a good idea.
None of this should be insulting to a recommender in any way. If a student picks up vibes that it is, I would suggest they ask someone else as they wouldn't want any annoyance being conveyed in the recommendation letter itself. For some students the stakes are high and IMO there's nothing wrong with discussing time frames, materials needed, and anything else related. Most colleges have few high school students needing recommendations for the Common Application. Unlike high school teachers, they are likely not very familiar with the process. If the student is in classes taken by few dual enrollment students, it's even less likely.
TranquilMind most will appreciate the students' efforts to make their job easier.
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For those who are unknown in class, don't visit the office, have no enthusiasm and poor grades/performance, and no goals, and no time for extra reading, a transcript and list of involvements, achievements and awards can be helpful, especially when requested by the person who will write the recommendation.
Edited to say that this is obviously written tongue in cheek. I'm sure it didn't need saying, but ...
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I'm with regentrude here. I do not work in academia, my career experience is in healthcare administration and my recent experience is in co-ordinator positions for volunteer work. I would consider it extremely rude if anyone other than my direct manager made time management suggestions to me, and even then, it would only be acceptable if there was a time management issue. This goes doubly when it is volunteer work. Keep in mind, the professor is volunteering his or her time to do this. There is no benefit to them if your student gets into any university program.
My son had a scholarship application due Dec. 1 this year. That was the day after Thanksgiving Day weekend. When we left for our trip, only one of the three people who said they would write letters of recommendation for him had done so. They had to turn them in directly to the university. He contacted them both by phone and by email to remind them before we left. Both were done over the Thanksgiving holiday weekend. Were we on pins & needles? Yes, we were. We won't get need based aid - merit scholarships are all he will get, if any. But, these teachers gave up their time on a holiday weekend to do this for my son. They volunteered their time and made the effort to do it at an inconvenient time. They could have just been "too busy" to do it, but they did it. We are grateful.
I wonder if all three would have been submitted had he not called and emailed reminders. I highly doubt that they hadn't forgotten and intended to do the recommendation over their Thanksgiving break. I would think many would try to fit it in during their office hours since they have to be in the office then anyway, and few students take advantage of that time. But that's for another thread. lol
Regentrude is suggesting that she just be told when it's due and that's the end of the conversation. That works for her and she would likely not leave recommendations until the last minute as she's organized and reliable. But we're talking about what should be done regarding recommendations in general. For many professors, and other recommenders, simply giving them the due date and not discussing it or following up would not be a good idea IMO. Thousands of dollars can be at stake.
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My son was just accepted to Case with a $30K per year academic scholarship. He will hear from his other EA school today at 3:16.
Awesome! I was thinking that you're off by a couple of minutes on the notification as many times it's pi, but when you put it into military time it makes perfect sense. :laugh:
Here's congratulations to everyone's acceptances!
:hurray: :party: :hurray:
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I understand that, and that is why I am cautioning the pp not to be too pushy.
Treat the recommender as a qualified professional. Unless you have good reason, like a missed deadline, don't say anything that suggests you assume he is incompetent or unreliable. I know that some recommenders are. However, it comes across as insulting if you assume right away that your recommender might drop the ball. The diligent ones might not take kindly to the suggestion that they forget unless they do right away something that can be done in half a year's time.
That's all I'm saying. Of course, PP is free to suggest to her student whatever she wishes.
Great point - and it raises another important consideration in the choice of a recommender: not only pick somebody who you know will write a glowing recommendation, but also pick somebody who is organized and on top of things. If you have the choice of two professors and one runs a disorganized class, can not adhere to the syllabus, announces assignments the night before, takes forever to return exams... well, read the signs, skip that one and pick the one who has her act together and is more likely to manage a deadline.
Regentrude I know the above was in response to others, but regarding the bolded, I think I wasn't clear that my reason why the recommender might want to do it now was not that they'd forget to do the recommendation, but that with so many classes and other students, they might forget some details about the specific student and their performance in their class. I'm talking about things that go beyond what can be referenced through test scores and the course grade. We can all forget details over time.
I guess each recommender is different. Some of dd's actually requested that she send them reminders.
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Oh, I absolutely agree that the bolded are topics any recommender would inquire about. When the letter is NEEDED is definitely something that must be discussed. But what I would find strange would be a student suggesting that I should do it now eight or more months before the deadline because he thinks that might be better.
Sorry - you just tell me when I need to submit it, I make sure that it is done by that date. End of story. Helpful suggestions to do it right away? Not appreciated. I can manage my time just fine.
Oh my.
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I'd still find it weird if a student wanted to talk about how and when I am writing his recommendation. Even if we have a great relationship.
Really? Dd provided transcripts and list of clubs, activities, etc. because the recommender asked for them. I would think it would be a normal part of the conversation for either the professor to ask for this, if they wanted it, or to ask when the letter was needed, etc. At that time it would make perfect sense for them to discuss when the letter would be written as the common app is available in August when many professors are not available. When school begins in the fall it's often their busiest time and not necessarily convenient for letters of rec. I could see the student asking if they'd like any other information including transcript, resume, etc. and asking when would be most convenient. In mentioning that the LOC would be needed for more than one situation, it would be normal to discuss whether it should be generic or if the application has a specific format which needs to be followed. The professor can't be expected to know all this info without discussing it with the student. Just my opinion.
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Isn't that a bit micromanaging? Assuming the professor has been informed about the timeline (i.e. student applying next fall), don't you think she would come up with this by herself? She might feel a bit patronized if a student tried to tell her how to best do her job.
No Regentrude I would call that a conversation. If the student has a good enough relationship with the professor to ask them for a recommendation, then I would think they'd be able to talk about ways it could be done. If I had phrased it as "tell her" rather than "ask her" then that's a different story.
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You could ask her if she wouldn't mind writing the letter now and saving it so she'll have it to upload once you've begun the common app. Doing it now she'll remember you better and be able to be more detailed in her letter.
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If a decimal was in the wrong place, that would be a wrong answer.
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OP I'm assuming his heat was turned on when he returned from Thanksgiving. Is that correct? But if anyone is in a cold dorm now, they should bring it to the attention of the residence director or other administrators for a quick solution.
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Have you been able to find any ratings for her professors?
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I think the point is that Harvard's Math 55 is a freshman course, and there are enough freshmen capable of that level in their first year to fill the course. For a student of that level, there is something to be said for having a course like that available and to be able to work on the problem sets with others. If that student went to a state university I've no doubt they'd look for other ways to challenge themselves. Higher level math, graduate classes, independent study, research and internships are available to them, but what Harvard offers is unique.
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Scoutermom I would encourage you to check on the recommended deadlines for each of the colleges your son is interested in. Somehow I remember some benefit for getting Harvard's application in early, maybe by December 1st? I'm not sure, but some colleges do offer some benefits to those who apply earlier even though it's still regular admission. I sincerely hope that he is admitted to his first or second choices, but he would have a better chance if he spread his net a bit wider. There are so many other schools which would likely give him that same sense of fit, but he has to apply. Is it at all possible to come up with a list of a few more elite universities and LACs and plan a trip so he can visit? He may need to see them to get the motivation to apply. It's not easy as many of them have their own essays and some are very unique to the school. But it's worth doing. I would encourage him (push him even) to complete applications and apply to more as it will give him more options should his first two not work out. It would be great if he could also find a match or two which would offer him some great merit aid. If he doesn't end up with a school he really wants to attend, then a gap year could be a plan B.
First semester of senior year is definitely challenging with a rigorous course load, like all AP classes, and applications, visits, etc.. Dd had little time to research colleges before applying, so she cast a big net and researched the colleges more as she had time so she could make an informed decision after visits to her acceptances. Your son isn't interested in Harvard and his top choice because of numerical rankings, he wants to go there because he fits in and feels at home there. That's a great reason to try for the reaches! I wouldn't let any article dissuade a student from applying. Each year some are admitted no matter what the percentage of applicants happens to be.
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Unless the student has an intense interest in one area and has been actively involved in work or research in that area, I'm in the agreement of finding a good school overall which has a good department in the specific area the student thinks they might major in. At the same time I would not think that a good school with a weak department in the area of interest would be a good choice. One of the things dd looked at, besides talking with professors, is where their degrees were from and which graduate schools students in her major attended. Availability of research and professor availability and teaching ability were also taken into consideration. Generally top schools are going to have good departments for most of the usual majors, but if it's a more obscure major, then you would probably begin the search looking for colleges which have that major. Many top schools do have leanings in either a STEM or non-STEM direction, so you may want to take that into account. Some students may prefer a college with a larger department with more course offerings and others may prefer a smaller department with more individual attention and lower student to faculty ratio. Either can be found at top colleges and universities as department size can vary considerably independent of the size of the total student population.
I think it would be fair to say that some of it is a guessing game as a student can totally change direction at any point and there are always a good number of students who transfer whether for that reason or other reasons. And it's still important to take into account location, and finances, and fit, and ... Strength of a specific department is one of the important criteria, but it's one of many.
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Glad to hear!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
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Do you realize he was transferred to an elementary school? This was before he's now on leave. Atrocious!
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I'm guessing that this is old news. lol
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Go to College Board and Delivering Opportunity for details on the changes for the redesigned PSAT and SAT.
https://www.collegeboard.org/delivering-opportunity/sat
One good change is that there's no points off for wrong answers.
Practice tests are available.
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Maybe his uncle thought it would be a good idea to fill out some info online for your son. You never know.
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Yes, lucky you and them! If you think auditing would be better at the beginning, then go ahead. Maybe they could take the tests and a TA could grade them, or the professor might be able to do that and simply not record the grade officially. Another homeschooler in a similar situation was able to do that. Considering your situation, could they sign up to take it for a grade, and then have a few weeks to decide whether to switch to auditing? Either way, it's a great opportunity for them.
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My son made NMSF and has good ACT scores so all kinds of stuff have arrived. Everything under the sun. Interestingly, one place that has not sent a single item or emailed is Notre Dame. Did any of you get info from them?
We got brochures from ND but likely because we requested info. lol I asked dd to check off for no mail on testing forms and we just requested from the ones we wanted. Not sure how a whole lot of others got in there, but I would imagine that a bit of selling of address info goes on with regard to colleges mailings. I found the various college brochures interesting not only for what they said and showed, but for what they didn't say or show.
I don't think that ND is concerned with mass mailings as they generally appeal to a smaller range of students. Their acceptance rate is higher than others compared to the stats of those admitted. I wonder if they do send mailings to students attending parochial high schools or indicating interest in Catholic colleges.
Just looked up more recent stats and it appears that their acceptance rate has dropped a bit and their standardized test scores as well. Interesting. Then again I'm working from memory ...
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The ones we found annoying are the ones we called to let them know that dd wasn't interested in attending, yet the barrage of emails and mail continued. These were not elite school but ones which were likely looking for high stats applicants to boost their ratings. Even then, with all that goes on in this world I'd hardly call these solicitations "disgusting". lol You can "recycle" the mailings by giving them to high schools where the students may not have access to these brochures. Pass it on.
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They're currently 8th graders.
Some 8th graders are 12 or 13 and some are 14 or 15. I think that age and maturity matter more regarding readiness for an on-campus college course. If they're ready for being in the class, then I'd suggest that they take it for credit, and if they're not ready, then either an online college course or one of the free MOOCs. Some younger students fit in very nicely both intellectually and socially, and for others it wouldn't be a good fit until they're older. If my dd had needed college course level instruction in 8th or 9th, we would have gone through the channels to have her admitted earlier than usual. If you do ask for them to be admitted earlier, you may also want to ask if there's any limit on the number of years they can attend. If there is a limit which begins with their first class, you may want to wait unless you want them to enter university earlier.
Community college libraries are usually open to the public. One way for them to get an idea of what it's like on campus is to have them spend some time at the library, go to the coffee shop, etc. and see if they are comfortable among older students. The library will also be a great source for college level material.
update: DD WAS ACCEPTED!!! My dd was asked for a writing sample to submit to her 1st choice....
in The College Board
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Test optional colleges sometimes ask for writing samples as they're not basing admissions on test scores. It's a very good sign that they've asked your daughter for this as they want to be able to justify admitting a student with lower scores. Admissions people are really busy and wouldn't ask for additional info from a student they were planning to reject. Hopefully she'll have good news soon!