bookfiend
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Posts posted by bookfiend
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Contrary to popular belief that teenagers are idiots and need everything spelled out for them, I find that my teenagers are quite capable of understanding literature just from - gasp - reading it. I highly doubt the authors of the great books had intended their books to be dissected and peppered with study questions; I am quite sure they meant their books to be read.
No idea, we tend to just pick up on things. *I* have sometimes peaked into a study guide for ideas like this, but I have never used any study questions with my kids. They just, hm, notice?
I handed my DD the "Essential literary terms" book and she browsed through it. You don't need to practice a dozen times to recognize an alliteration, once you know what it is, you'll just find it. Personification speaks for itself and makes sense in context; all you need to know is that such a concept exist, and it will jump out at you. If you know that "foreshadowing" is a thing, you'll recognize when it is done.
I can't explain it better, since my background is science and not English - somehow my kids do just fine with literature, so i tend to believe less direct instruction and more being left alone with the reading does the trick.
This is where I hope to land; directed reading selections, education about literary methods and means, writing and discussion that reveals an understanding of the structure and significance of the text - something that is not quite as formally driven as a specific curriculum, but rather is an organic interaction with the author and his concepts.
So yes, English is reading and writing but those are just the means to teach all the skills or to build their box of tools for communicating both in oral form and written form.
Lisa,
ug, sorry! I soooo did not mean it to read that way! I'm glad you posted your comments. I too like the idea of just reading and discussing, I'm not against it. And I do get how all the questions can get in the way of enjoying a book. Teaching English or Literature or Writing does not require any special degrees... any of us can do this ... with or without a curriculum or study guide.
hmm, I guess I was just trying to point out that English class is not just read it and write something. That sounds so small. There are so many skills that can be learned here... and frankly many are used in all classes. These study skills tend not to come in their own class, so I try to find places to teach them and it is usually in some form of an English class and used in the other classes.
So, for a really good English ( well actually this is the literature part) class I'm more for a mix where some works are just read and enjoyed, some are analyzed as they are read, and others are only analyzed some. For the Illiad, once they know what a simile is, we can all just discuss which ones we remember from the story... they don't need to find them all ... so long as they *can* spot some... that is the skill.
I think the bigger skill to focus on is writing/composition... there's plenty there to work on during high school years and this skill will be needed for all other classes as well.
For me, affirmation that high school English class is essentially interacting with literature feels very elegant and freeing, not small. We are probably very close in philosophy (both being TOGers!) The directive of our schooling is to produce boys who think well, write well, and speak well. When I say "simply" I mean, no worksheets, no diagraming, no vocabulary words, no dress-ups and checklists, no additional curricula that constrains independent thought and pre-digests the material.
I hope I am understanding correctly that the very act of reading, considering, and writing about great works will build the logic structures and communication skills which are our goal. Isn't this what we have beem preparing for in all of the grammar and dialectic years?
I'm so grateful to all who gave such thoughtful and detailed answers; you have inspired and challenged as I face this new phase of learning!
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One further thought--seven works are too few. I usually shoot for 12-14 "units."
Shoot for 100-125 pages of reading per week. On those weeks that you don't read, there should be a hefty writing assignment. Most books should go 1-3 weeks. After three weeks you're all so sick of the book that not much learning will happen, so you should go longer than three weeks on one work only if that work is truly spectacular.
Search my name on these boards and you'll see more detailed advice on how to do this.
Harriet, I agree that seven books are too few, equating to less than one complete selection per month. However, I was very surprised to see the major works listed by top schools for each of their English Classes. In most cases, students were reading 5-8 major works per year. Hopefully, the programs include several other shorter works.
If you would be comfortable sharing, I would love to see the Ancient's list you reference in another thread. We will be cycling back to Y1 (Creation to Fall of Rome) with Tapestry of Grace. If interested, here is their Lit list: http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/year1/ScopeAndSequence1.pdf
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Thank you all for the thoughtful responses. Up until now, literature has been a component of TOG, and writing has been a seperate subject along with grammar and spelling. I think I tend to have so many different curriculum pieces addressing multiple disciplines; it was just hard to believe that English is really as simple as read it and write about it! Very excited for the coming year. I feel TOG does an excellent job of presenting and analyzing lit. at the Rhetoric level.
Ms. Harriet, I will look for additional wisdom under your name! Thank you.
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This is a resurrected thread with my experiences and new questions beginning at post 70.
Is it really pretty much read 7 or so great works of literature and write about them? I'm very confused about what constitutes a High School English credit at each of the four years. I've looked at the on-line curriculum descriptions for top prep schools in the nation. I've googled "English 9 Honors syllabus," and read several public descriptions. They are pretty much reading lists and writing assignments across various genres and historical periods. Is that really all we need to do?
When I searched this forum, it seemed that English had several more components. How do you construct your English classes? For anyone who is interested, I have a rising ninth grader who is well versed in grammar mechanics and has an expansive vocabulary.
This feels very embarassing to ask... -
I think a nice grownup could play all sorts of terrible games
and still stay nice. I have evidence of many nice college age and
up people who played horrible games and went on to be peaceful
great people.
I think a young kid might be affected, though, and it might depend
on his age.
I'm not sure though because we don't have any games at our house
and when we did for 1 year they were non-violent.
And I don't know what age would be affected. That would be
interesting to find out.
Anyone have articles to link? I think a PP had some research?
The book, Boys Adrift, has a very informative chapter, backed by research, on video gaming and brain development.
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We did this with my younger son. The ortho pulled his two canines as the two front teeth were aimed directly at each other. It was a great solution for us. The current permanent teeth are mostly straight instead of hoplessly overlapped. The canine holes created were open for a few years (they are some of the later teeth to come in apparently). This time allowed for maturity to also grow his jaw. He is now losing the baby molars as the canines are beginning to errupt.
Our regular dentist refused to pull the teeth because he "doesn't do extractions" What??? Anyway, we had to go to an oral surgeon for the procedure. Took 30 minutes max, one day of discomfort and three-four days before the hole was healed over.
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high fiber, low carb, not a vegtable?
Dieting minds want to know....
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Girl Scout Thin Mints finally caught up to me outside of the Staples when I ran errands earlier..... now they are MINE!
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We currently use TOG, love it and plan to continue. Another equally worthy program to consider is Kings Meadow.
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This made me smile. We aren't offended by nudity in art work or quotes from history.
I used the Stream of Civ. textbooks throughout D level in addition to the primary reading. Often I substituted the primary read with a Landmark book or Messner biography. For us, having a spine text oftered a synopsis that filled gaps in understanding from one week to the next. It is also useful if we have to skim a week or two and can't devote time to full on TOG assignments.
Any other recommendations are greatly appreciated!
We like SWB's HOAW and are reading it now. However, as a TOG user, you may have some objections to the content as outlined in this rather hot thread.
I only bring this up because I remember that TOG suggests that you staple together the pages of the love poetry in either the Mesopotamia or the Egyptian literature books.
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Do you have a Great Harvest Bread Company nearby? They grind their wheat daily and only use the whole kernel which adds to the protein content of the bread. When I have a piece of their toast for breakfast, I'm not hungry until 11:30. When I eat grocery store bread, I'm ravenous at 10:00.
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Anyone read it? Is it appropriate for High School? I'm looking for a complementary spine that I can use all year with TOG Y1. The student is a rising 9th grader. Any thoughts?
ETA - this is our second round with TOG, we used Story of the World the first time through.
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Worms (especially if he spends time outside barefoot) or anemia
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try threading.
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Thank you! I wouldn't have thought to give them the local address or money. I LOVE the wise hive. Definitely trying to think of a plan in case we are seperated. I don't know what the best avenue would be. Our guys don't have their own cell phone. Maybe a disposable one? I don't even know how those work.
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My boys are 13 and 10, too old for lots of hand holding or in the bathroom with Mom. So what kind of safety precautions do you take with your older kids when traveling in a big city?
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Download the Smithsonian app and you shouldn't miss out on any of the art museums. :) the Folger Library is private though-they also have a theater that is reminiscent (not an exact replica) of The Globe.
Tips: you can go the James Madison building and get a reader card, this will allow access to parts of the Library of Congress that you would otherwise not be able to access. If you want to tour the White House or Congressional Sessions, then you should start arranging those now. You can get a better tour (than the public one) of the Capitol Building by arranging a private tour through your Congressman/woman.
I have accrued vacation days. ;D
Here is a short article on some of the quirkier museums:
Thank you so much! These are the kinds of things that aren't readily apparent. I'm too late with the White House tour, as they need to be booked 3-6 months in advance! We were at Monticello and Madison's House last year but definitely intend to see Mt. Vernon.
How is it to try and pack a lunch to take with us? Do most of the museums have lockers? Will they let us bring in backpacks?
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How hidden? There are so many treasures in our museums in DC that is hard to start. If I could only pick 3 things to see in DC?
The documents in The Rotunda-the Constitution, Magna Carta, Declaration of Independence, etc.
Michaelangelo's "David Apollo" is currently on display the National Gallery
A First Folio at the Folger Shakespeare Museum
Sorry, my question was poorly worded. We are going to be in DC for a month, the National Gallery is a given. I meant what three museums are hidden/off general radar? A PP mentioned that many of the art museums are overlooked.
We will definitely see your recommendations!
P.S. How did you get out of the hive and on cupcake duty?
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So grateful for this timely thread as I am just making reservations to come for the month of Feb. For a longer stay, look into corporate apartments. Currently, I found some for $125/night close to metro stops. Feel free to PM me.
What are the top three hidden museum jewels?
Any don't miss items after we have checked off the usual suspects?
I'm slightly huffy as the search function is completly useless, and I noted several threads to return to over the past year in anticipation of this trip.
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I see this more as CYA notation in the chart by the ped. I wouldn't worry.
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Ask "how" instead of "what." What questions only allow her to comfortably assign a task. How takes it one step further. How can I best help you? How would you like this done? How do you prefer ......... to look? It puts more control in her sphere and conveys that you are respecting her choices in her home. (not that you don't already)
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Well how happy would you be if he knocked softly, you didn't hear him, and the packages were stolen off your front porch? He can't know what is going on inside of your house. Good on him for at least doing his best to try and deliver the package responsibly.
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I tend to start something else while it is in the oven and forget aout it until I smell it burning so I literally stay right there the entire time.
Perhaps for Christmas you could ask for a timer that you can wear on a chain around your neck. Other people use their phone for the same function . (haven't figured out how to insert smiley here on the new board)
Loving this discussion - thanks for raising.
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Or maybe with a wink tell him your husband "has skills".
I wouldn't say anything that has s#xual overtones, even in a joking way to put him off. It just opens the door for more comments in the same line.
Silence is the best conversation stopper. Just stare directly in the eyes, silently count 1,2,3 Mississsippi, and then continue with a business question. Never respond.
Constructing a High School English Class, I feel I am missing something
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
Thank you, thank you, thank you for taking the time to write up all of these resources and comment on them! I found the Bedford Anthology in our local homeschool consignment store. Lo and behold, it contains the Fitzgerald translations of Illiad and Odyssey required for Y1.
I already have a set of Britiannica's Great Books that I scored at a garage sale several years ago, I think we have all of the ancient literature selections we could use and more.