KSera
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Posts posted by KSera
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47 minutes ago, LMD said:
I'm reminded of something SWB says in her writing talks - writing problems are almost always thought problems.
This is so true. I’ve started many a post in response to this thread or one of a couple other more involved threads here lately, and found myself getting tied up somewhere between my thoughts and my words, and when that happens, my thoughts become less cogent and I have to can the post and go back to the drawing board and check my thinking through from the beginning. Sometimes, doing so results in some kind of new insight. I had one earlier today involving CRT versus gender theory, but it needs a lot more time in my brain before I can put it into words.
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35 minutes ago, Catwoman said:
Thank you so much for posting this!!!!!
You’re welcome. I thought of you immediately. Would be so wonderful for transplant recipients to be able to be better protected.
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44 minutes ago, amiesmom said:
I went to the grocery store just a few days after our mask mandate was lifted for vaccinated people. I saw only one person without a mask in the busy store (so probably 99% were masking). However, I saw several with their mask under their nose, I found that really odd. Why wear it at all if you're going to wear it wrong?
Same here. We’re 60-85% of eligible vaccinated, depending which area I’m in, but almost everyone is masked inside. Most people aren’t masking outside. I have noticed an uptick in masks under the nose lately also, which is weird. Seems like people trying to walk the line 🤷♀️.
19 minutes ago, PeterPan said:You mean you put masks on your kids? Even though they have very little likelihood of transmitting it if they are positive and even though they aren't positive? Or to protect them? Since their masks won't protect them (unless they're happy masks or something similar) and since the data is now showing that kid masks are germ factories, it would seem much safer to remove the masks on your kids.
Kids are indeed transmitting. Also, Happy Masks aren’t magically better than all the other ones. They’re a decent mask. Not the best, but much better than a lot of others. Much, much better than no mask. What’s the data you’re talking about kids masks being germ factories? I don’t care about general germs, anyhow. Only the risky ones I don’t want them breathing in.
My youngest has been masking since she was 2. She has KF94s that fit her very nicely and bother her none at all. I feel glad to be able to offer her that protection, though I also just don’t take her inside places right now. She doesn’t need to catch delta if we can help it.
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3 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:
The very sad thing is that this is one of a handful of public places on the internet where an open conversation can take place.
Without hyperbole, it's one of less than five.
This conversation was not violence. It did not cause harm. And yet, too often, it is shut down, pre-emptively, on the basis of those claims.
I’ve been amazed that we’ve been able to have this discussion so we’ll, actually. I wouldn’t have felt able to share my conflicted feelings about this honestly anywhere else. It’s not an acceptable conversation most places.
1 hour ago, LMD said:This is the part of the ftm trans spike that I really want people to not brush over.
There is something going on here! Why, suddenly, are so many girls willing to consider cutting off breasts and taking drugs just to avoid being labeled woman.
Do you know, KSera, what those negative connotations of 'woman' are, in their mind? What has woman come to mean to them, and where did this idea come from?
I have my theories, and no doubt it's complex.
There is definitely something going on, and I agree it’s an important question. I’d be interested to have the conversation with them sometime. I think they’d be open to discussing. I don’t know whether they will be able to put words to it or not. I can say from other discussions that a lot about looks comes into it. They have a lot of insecurities about their looks, and feel that those things only matter if they are being read as female, and otherwise, it doesn’t matter and they can feel fine about themself because their looks only matter if they are female. They think they would have to be pretty if female. There are also fears about dangers of being a woman that don’t exist (in their mind) if they don’t look female.
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@Catwoman New study showing promising results for third dose for transplant recipients:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2108861?query=featured_home
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42 minutes ago, Condessa said:
What do you think of the events in the videos?
I watched two of the four. The first was primarily an anti-trans thing, and saying that teaching kids anything about race was to teach them to hate others based on race. The one of the guy being arrested told me nothing because I don’t know what happened before that point. The way he was acting during the arrest, it doesn’t seem impossible to me that he may have done something that warranted arrest. But again, I can’t make any judgment on that without seeing what led to it. What were your thoughts on the videos? did you watch General Milley’s statement that Pam posted? I thought he made an excellent statement. I see that Jack Posobiec, who posted most of those tweets, made some extremely rude tweets in response to General Milley’s statement.
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On 6/23/2021 at 12:04 PM, LucyStoner said:
Having seen my brother transition 20 years ago, I assumed that it was always a long process that filtered out for those whose dysphoria was temporary or minor. I now have three nieces identifying as either FTM or non-binary (1 FTM, 1 non-binary with they/them or he/his pronouns and a third whose identity very much changes based on context). Of these three, none has medicalized their transition yet but the non-binary one is considering a double mastectomy and a small dose of testosterone. The youngest of these girls is, I am fairly certain, a very young lesbian. The other two were and ARE very gender conforming girls.
Three in one family is eyebrow raising but *perhaps* explained by family socialization or wanting to identify with their trans parent (two of them are my brother’s kids) or maybe heck, even some genetic factor. What absolutely got me challenging my opinion about this issue though is summarized along these lines:
1. the vast majority of each of their distinct friend groups are also identifying as trans. These are kids who go to different schools across the county I live in.
2. the stereotyping and what seems to be sexist thinking I keep hearing from their mouths. My niece actually told me she knows she was “more than just a girl” because she likes to wear pants. Say what?!
3. The gender expression of 2 of my 3 nieces tends to be pretty conventionally feminine and none of the three exhibit any signs of gender dysphoria or distress. My niece wanted me to take her bra shopping after she stopped binding (and she picked out lacy, feminine options) and when we went on vacation she wanted bikinis. All three of these girls regularly cajole me (their tomboy aunt) to take them to get manicures. When they have needed clothing for special events, they want me to take them dress shopping. I don’t associate these choices with any level of gender dysphoria as I have witnessed it TBH. Is gender identity really *nothing but a pronoun* and does it supercede sex? I don’t think so.
Even the kids in question acknowledge that, yeah, it seems to be inauthentic for at least some of the kids (but they, they themselves are actually trans). One niece doesn’t give a flying fig about being misgendered…except if the parent she has a high conflict relationship with or her sibling does it.
I support trans people in real and non-theoretical ways but I feel I would have to abandon all reason to accept that almost all of the kids in this age bracket in my family, as well as most of their friends, are trans.
I also worry that if trans becomes everything, it becomes nothing and it will be harder on people who actually experience severe dysphoria to get the support and healthcare they need.
Now, I think kids are gonna be kids and this will eventually fade away for many of the kids I know. My inclination was to affirm but on deeper exploration, I think that would be premature. I’m taking a wait and see and let kids be kids approach.
It’s is absolutely UNCANNY the degree to which I could have written this entire thing, other than the brother part (I could make some substitutions there involving my own trans kid). But every one of your points matches part of my experience. [deleted personal details] I really think a lot of the girls presenting this way really do just want to opt out of what “woman” has come to mean. Woman has a very negative connotation to my nb kid. They want nothing to do with it.
on the other hand, I do worry that this entire conversation will be misused by the anti-trans folks who have an entirely different agenda. My concerns are focused on the medicalization of the kids caught up in this current big spike.
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1 minute ago, whitestavern said:
Pretty much if you are posting something from a MSM source it's going to be biased.
That’s not even what those are. They are tweets worded in purposefully inflammatory ways. Mostly from Jack Posebiec, who I don’t think anyone would expect anything unbiased from.
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35 minutes ago, Katy said:
I just want to throw in that if someone wants to fix certain thought patterns (anxiety, depression, etc), cognitive behavioral therapy is the one you’re looking for.
I’ve noticed that a lot of therapists advertise themselves as being CBT therapists, but then do very little of that during their sessions. Most seem to at least throw some in here or there, but we’ve spent a lot of time with CBT therapists wondering when they were finally going to get to the CBT. So far, the DBT therapists have been the only ones that have gotten down to business tackling specific thought patterns and behaviors right away. (I know that sounds like a lot of therapists, and it is. My older two have each seen several over the past 5 years.)
eta: just realizing that might sound like I’m negative on CBT. I’m not at all, I think the evidence is pretty clear it’s very helpful, which is why we have specifically looked for it when we’ve been looking for a therapist. My beef is with people advertising it but then not actually providing it.
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4 hours ago, saraha said:
There was a little ghost kid in the panel right? I think I remember those
Yep. I guess it changed to Family Circus. No idea now why I thought that was so funny. Like this:
https://i0.wp.com/www.dailycartoonist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/fam-not-me.jpg
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On 6/23/2021 at 5:53 AM, Dmmetler said:
How many parents seek out gender clinics vs finding a therapist locally, or, if their child is at the "call me X, my pronouns are Y" stage, but isn't terribly distressed, just living with it? I believe the two nearest here are both 3-4 hours away, and I'm in a pretty big city. And I'm not sure either would be covered under my health plan, since we're pretty tied to one hospital network. I would think that in many cases, you'd go to the first decent therapist you can find, and someone who focuses on, say, anxiety, or self injurious behavior, or an eating disorder or autism spectrum is likely to look at things a little less through a "if you just use the right pronouns, all problems will be solved" lens. And while I admit to not asking, somehow I can't imagine the pediatric office we see prescribing testosterone, since she tends to follow a "stay in your own Lane" and refer for everything that isn't a normal childhood illness.
I'm actually wondering if that's why the kids in my circle mostly don't seem to be rushing to medicalize things. It seems to be social transitioning only, and treated similarly to coming out as gay/lesbian-ok, here's another piece of information about you. But, again, most of the kids I know are claiming to be NB in some way, which doesn't require anatomy changes.
**don’t quote—I will be deleting**
I have thought the opposite-that perhaps gender clinics will be less rapid to affirm than general therapists who only know what they know from reading the popular literature and APA position statements, just based on our experiences. I expect it probably mostly just matters from clinic to clinic and therapist a therapist.[deleted personal details] They finally realized this therapist had caused them far more harm than good and quit. They are working at recovering from all that now.
As for NB and medicalization, top surgery isn’t super unusual for that and/or testosterone. I actually came to think that if my kid was going to do one or the other, the surgery was my preference. The negative aspects of T were more worrisome to me and the irreversible aspects more obvious to the world if they change their mind in the future. Though, I will say top surgery is pretty dang drastic once you actually see it in person. It’s not like they just look like they did prepuberty. Still, given a choice, that still seems the easier one for someone to live with than T if they have regrets. It’s good hearing in the nb crowd you know, the kids are happy without needing to medicalize
**don’t quote—I will be deleting**
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Sorry so many questions, but also, do you know if this is mostly Delta spreading right now?
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6 hours ago, Emba said:
My house is absolutely infested by Not-Me! If I could get my hands on him (or her). . .
Does anyone remember those old Family Circle comics in this vein? (I’m dating myself.) I used to think the Mr. nobody and not me ones were hilarious when I was a kid.
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Yikes, just saw this about one of the Australia transmissions:
‘The driver’s infection is deemed to have been “highly infectious”, as he also passed on the virus to a woman who had been sitting outside at a cafe in Vaucluse.
“This indicates that the initial case was highly infectious, as transmission must have occurred through fleeting exposure, noting that the person who caught the infection at the cafe was seated outside and there was no known on-site contact with the initial case,” Chief Health Officer Dr Kerry Chant said.’
If it’s true that they never crossed paths in an indoor space, that would be super concerning to me. We are treating outdoors as safe right now (as long as not too many people, or too close).
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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:
The premier of QLD stated that transmission is taking seconds not minutes of contact with Delta. Not sure how accurate that is but it sounds worrying.
I keep reading that they have cc video of a couple of the fleeting contact transmission events, but I haven’t seen the video itself. What I wanted to know is weather the individuals involved or masked. Anyone know?
what size gathering is being allowed indoors now? I saw 50 before, but the new guidelines posted in this thread don’t address size of indoor groups.
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On 6/12/2021 at 6:42 AM, 8filltheheart said:
You can add SC and FL to the list of states that I know about.
I'm not sure regular testing is going to be occurring. I have not seen any information stating that that will be continued in the fall. It is not occurring this summer on the campuses I am familiar with.
On 6/12/2021 at 8:13 AM, RootAnn said:In the Plains States, there are very few state colleges listed. Some private colleges, but very short lists.
I am unaware of any testing that will be occurring on campus in the fall at either of my kids' schools
I wonder how they’re thinking that’s going to work out in light of Delta increasing rapidly. Maybe they think all the unvaccinated are going to catch it over Summer? (Grim thought, actually, as they could be right.)
On 6/13/2021 at 3:24 PM, JennyD said:. For months the housing website had as part of the FAQ a question about whether a student could request a vaccinated roommate (answer: no) -- I have to imagine they were getting tons of calls from parents asking about this.
I wonder if that’s true even for immune compromised students or those legitimately unable to be vaccinated. Seems awful to tell them that’s just too bad and they’re just going to have to be sharing air all night with an unvaccinated person. Seems at least as reasonable as requesting a non-smoking or no alcohol roommate, which is a regular thing.
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🙈I didn’t see this. We love Frixion things here. My kid with ASD can’t handle the feel of pencils on paper, so frixion has long been our saving grace. I’ll have to see what other sets they have.
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1 hour ago, MercyA said:
Someone also unfurled one of the flags and let it fly while riding the "Yo-Yo", a high swings ride.
1 hour ago, *Jessica* said:I couldn’t decide whether to choose racist or white supremacist, but felt like the ones I see around here are displayed by people who lean toward supremacy so chose that option.
I went back and forth between the same two, but settled on racist. After reading Mercy’s post though, that use (unfurling on the ride) would definitely be read as white supremacist to me.
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14 minutes ago, KSera said:
My mind hasn’t been able to come up with a satisfying way to explain why I don’t think any of this necessitates gender as a separate category. I don’t think it’s progressing us, for sure.
I think I just hit on part of why it doesn’t feel helpful to me, beyond the primary issue which to me is all about the medicalization. I think the very notion of gender as a separate category is what leads this discussion to feel sticky to me. Instead of it being that lots of guys like cars, but some don’t, now it’s like liking cars is a guy thing and liking Barbies instead makes the guy gender nonconforming. Whereas before, he would just be a guy who liked Barbies and not cars, but that wouldn’t say anything about his gender.
I think for some kids it’s about these gender stereotypes they don’t fit, but for others, I think it’s purely about the body parts (frequently adolescent girls who don’t like having breasts).
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30 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:
I don't know. It all begins to mesh with 1950's stereotypes.
I don't think I've ever looked for friends by gender presentation. What are girl/guy things anyway? I honestly thought we were beyond that.
I agree. There’s my discomfort. But I keep not having another way to describe things. (Thus lots of quotes, like “girl” things). I’m not comfortable with that, though. But I’m acknowledging an association of interests I would be intellectually dishonest to claim I never noticed. I absolutely agree I’ve never looked for friends by gender presentation, though. But I also see what he means that he wouldn’t have been looking for a partner who identifies as a man. I don’t know. My mind hasn’t been able to come up with a satisfying way to explain why I don’t think any of this necessitates gender as a separate category. I don’t think it’s progressing us, for sure.
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19 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:
That's a novel definition. Congrats to your dh for coming up with a non-circular definition, but that's wild.
Under his definition, everyone is pan, and all orientations are to gender, not sex.
Oh dear, I realize I left a big part of that out. He described this as a separate axis that works in concert with one’s sexual orientation axis, to determine who would fit within potential partners for any given person. So, he gave the example that having always been hetero, that was going to confine him to female bodied people, but that someone who is female bodied but identified as a man would not fit what he was interested in. He did say, on the other hand, that when he was a child just having crushes, probably only the gender presentation would’ve mattered, since sex wasn’t a factor. So, to him, it’s both. It’s someone’s sex, and their gender, together. And he thinks this works for platonic friendships as well. Looking for a guy to hang out with to do “guy” things, gender presentation is what’s going to matter, and sex would be irrelevant.
I still have issues with this definition, as we keep coming back to there being guy things and girl things, which bothers me, yet I also see the truth in some of those general stereotypes for many people. I don’t want to talk about cars, for example. Not interested. Neither are any of my kids, except for the only one born male, and he would talk about them all day. That started quite suddenly when he was 18 months old, out of the blue and I thought it was wild. I don’t know how to explain that. (He’s a sweet, nurturing kind of guy and did have a baby he was attached to through childhood, but it was more like a comfort object he slept with, and he never really parented it the way my girls mothered their dolls. I can’t explain that, either. Especially because he’s very caretaking of babies now as a teen.) It’s all very weird and I don’t know what to make of it. All I know for sure is that I’m not comfortable with the idea that not falling into these kind of stereotypes means something is wrong with one and that medical intervention would be encouraged. (Not to mention the fact every one of the trans guys I know well right now would have fallen under the more typical of girls stereotype when they were growing up.) 🤷♀️
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51 minutes ago, lewelma said:
The word 'gender' seems to now be taking on a lot of what I always considered 'sex'. That your gender should align with your sex which is why there is so much changing of the body features with hormones and surgery.
I think very recently (like maybe the past 3 years), kids are putting on a new gender because they would prefer to be a different gender, and that the medicalized gender dysphoria is not the only reason to do so. It is no longer a medical 'problem' to be fixed. That it is quite insulting to consider it either medical or a problem, and that gender is a choice. (And this use of the word 'gender' is based on the more modern definition of aligning your physical self to your psychological perceptions).
These get at some interesting aspects that I have mulled over as well. This is part of where the circular reasoning seems hard to break out of. One’s body does not determine their gender, which then begs the question of why the body needs medical treatments which may carry significant risk and harm in order to make the body align with the chosen gender. Now, I do of course understand that the reality is that a lot of kids have gender dysphoria having to do with actual body parts and appearance, and that’s the reason for the treatment, but this seems somehow separate from the body changes being the thing that changes gender. Which then makes me wonder how might we reach a place where more people felt they could express their gender identity in a way that feels right to them without requiring medicalization. Tangentially related to this is that two of my kids (one trans and one not) have also had significant body dysmorphia that has not had anything to do with gender. How that has been approached is so different from how the dysphoria surrounding gendered parts has been approached that it gives me pause. Why does one warrant medicalization when the other doesn’t, when both may cause significant bodily harm?
I was going to address the second paragraph also, but decided it was too personal.
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1 hour ago, Chrysalis Academy said:
Their families/doctors are supportive, but certainly no one suggested or led them into "choosing" this identity. It came from inside of them.
I mean, other than a subsection of instagram/tumblr/tiktok, being nb or trans is not actually an easy, trendy, or glamorous thing, IRL, I don't think. From what I've seen it's usually a gut-wrenching, painful, long, involved process, which includes a ton of soul-searching & self-education, long conversations with family/friends/doctors, and a realization that you may face an incredible amount of discrimination and even violence once you are out/presenting in a manner that is comfortable for you. You risk losing friends, extended family members, having difficulty getting jobs, being called names when you're out in public. It's an incredibly difficult process that takes courage and fortitude. Totally worth it for the kids I know, but not something anyone would take on just to follow a trend.
I expect it varies widely from place to place and group to group, depending how accepting of an area a kid lives in. I don’t think most kids are being led by their parents or doctors. I do think the subsection of instagram/tumblr/tiktok you refer to has an outsized influence, and my kid would agree with that, as would I think most people working in the field. With the exception of general therapists (those not working in gender clinics). I frankly don’t think most of them have a good handle on what’s actually going on, so they just get a kid questioning gender and jump right to affirm, affirm, affirm. That’s been our experience. Therapists will be called out and accused of conversion therapy if they want to explore other issues first, so you can’t really blame them. I think parents are mixed in reponse. Ranging the spectrum from being hateful to their kid to being eager to jump to transition. No one wants to be seen as unaccepting, and all those threats that their kid will commit suicide if they do anything but fully affirm have a big impact. I have a friend in that situation now. She’s very concerned about all of her kid’s other pre existing mental health baggage, but the kid wants testosterone now, and mom has expressed to me she’s afraid of the suicide risk if they don’t allow it right now. It’s hard. Especially when the kids themselves are reading that they will commit suicide if they don’t get hormones 😢.
So, I guess in general I’d say I don’t think most kids are being led in this direction by adults*, but I think many are very encouraged by their peer group (online or off) and then are affirmed by whatever clinician they go to. In my area, kids will get a lot of support for this decision, so I don’t know how gut wrenching it is or isn’t for kids around here. Then initial decision wasn’t gut wrenching or long drawn out for my dc, but there’s been a whole lot of gut wrenching now in the aftermath 😢.
eta: I forgot to address my *
* I only know one case where I really do feel the parent led it. I just erased details. Not my story.-
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29 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:
We certainly have unspoken markers around civility and occasionally-voiced markers along the lines of "this is a three or four step analysis so please don't start the rebuttal until I'm all the way through," also borne from experience.
But aside from a single negotiation decades ago in which first I had him assign mutlivote-style preference weightings to various elements of a multi-part problem; then invited him to choose, in essence, whichever piece he wanted of the cake he had just cut but I got the rest of the cake... which has definitely gone down as often-repeated Family Lore...
Okay, it’s definitely not just us 😂. I love it.
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How do you define gender?
in The Chat Board
Posted
Yeah, I don’t know how/why people think that is helpful. My dc was in tears last week over the fact that no matter how many times dc tells their friends that their parents are not the problem and they want them to stop talking bad about us and it makes them feel terrible, the “friends” refuse to honor that request and continue, making dc feel like they have few friends they can hang out with who don’t make them feel miserable 😢.