I would have liked to have met him. He sounds wonderful. My boy preferred geeky math T-shirts and sparkles to naked.

Thanks Rosie.

Sorry everyone I really didn’t mean to be so drama llama. My original post was just saying that as of yesterday, the number of days since DS’s death (647) is the same number as the number of days I had the privilege of being his mom on Earth. It seems like a silly “anniversary” but for some reason it crushed me. So I made a whiny post about how 647 days is both too short and too long and then felt guilty about whining, but I feel like deleting is as drama llama as my post. Also Friday night I got woken up twice by my phone blaring with flash flood warnings, and being woken by midnight phone calls is kind of a PTSD trigger for me. I am a little better today. I got some sleep.

no this isn't true

I'm sorry to be such a mess.

I think Jim Henson accidentally dropped something in the ocean, and Jacques Cousteau got confused. That is the only explanation.

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I agree that if they broke up he'd be very sad. I was responding to your comment about the memories being ruined long term. It's not uncommon for kids to date classmates, although these two go to different schools. Kids who date, and are part of the same friendship group or social circle, will be at all sorts of events together before, during and after those events. The kid you dated last year might be on the band trip with you, or cheering at your championship game, or dancing with someone else at your prom. But people still remember those things fondly.

You're sweet. I'm still a mess, never fear. I think there's a good chance I'm overcompensating because I'm sure I'm going to be having a hard time, and I want them distracted enough that my disengagement, and their father's absence, doesn't hurt them.

I have a friend who runs a home daycare. A former family flew her and her daughter out to the other coast so she could watch their kids while they went on vacation, and offered her a huge bonus if the youngest was potty trained when they got back. Friend took the kids to every sight seeing destination, stopping every hour or two to use the little potty in the back of the mini van. She collected that bonus!

We actually have three birthdays, both my kids and their cousin, within a 2 week time period. All 3 kids want the same 3 other kids at their birthday. So, if we spent the night I might let them each pick an activity, with kayaking as my oldest's and then count that as everyone's birthday. Add in the fact that we didn't do anything in person the last two years due to pandemic, and maybe that makes it more reasonable? We don't usually do things this big either.

Yes, it would be my two kids, a couple cousins, and 3 close friends. I don't feel like I can do this by myself. I haven't been camping since middle school. I actually probably wouldn't go on the water. So, I'd invite my BIL and SIL so that I'd have chaperones, and people with skills to be on the water with the kids. Plus they know how to camp.

I guess I don’t think of my early relationships from middle school and high school that way at all.

I guess I have trouble thinking of two fourteen year olds as a potential "forever relationship" or as a potential "ex". They're two kids, in a larger group of kids who like to spend time together. I imagine that the group of kids my son will hang out with will shift and change many times between the summer before 9th grade and adulthood. I also can't really imagine excluding a kid, because it's possible in the future they'll feel differently about each other. I mean, kids' friendship groups change all the time. The three older kids are all at different schools and have different extracurriculars, they'll certainly make new friends, and some friendships will fade, it doesn't mean they'll regret the memories. Maybe it's a geographic difference, but I think people are seeing the "girlfriend" part as indicating a more serious relationship? This is definitely puppy love. They are two middle schoolers (they're rising 9th) who both like to sing, and do musical theater, and play basketball, and play video games, and choose to use the term "boyfriend/girlfriend" to describe their relationship. They aren't potential spouses. They're kids hanging out together. Sometimes they hang out a lot, like right now they're in the same production and see each other at rehearsal 5 days a week. Sometimes they get busy with school and sports and family stuff and don't see each other in person for a few weeks.

This reads like you think I changed something. I'm not really sure how cabins or tents is different from cabins or tents. My first choice has been cabins all along, but at this late point we might not be able to be choosy.

So I am still researching options, it’s late to be booking. I think bunkroom style., but we could end up with platform tents or something. We’d have 1 or 2 adults with the boys and 3 with the girls. I am more comfortable with adults with kids than I am with the 12 and 14 year old girls alone at a campsite with the adults at another one. That seems really different from scout camping where it’s tents on a single site.

It's not that I'm more concerned about one than the other. It's that I already talked out my concerns about the kayaking with other people. i've decided that, in this particular circumstance (outfitter, small group, experienced adults including one in my own family, these particular kids, this particular stretch of river), I'm comfortable. Now, I'm making the camping decision, so that's what I asked about.

It's hard to answer without knowing how old the child is. It's possible my suggestion will be too young, or just wrong for your family culture. But, I've had a lot of experience with getting kids to do things that are scary to them, even terrifying, including medical things. The thing that usually worked in the end was to first of all let the kid know that this is a decision for me to make as the parent/adult, that I did my research and I'm confident it's worth the risk, and that they don't need to decide. And then I tell them that it's what's gong to happen next, and that I can keep them company, and be with them, but that it needs to happen next and that we can't do other things until we get past this thing. And then we wait. Together. I don't present it as do this or you can't . . . or do this and then you can . . . I just say "now we're going to do this, I understand you're scared and I can wait." and then we wait together. I've waited what seems like a really long time, with kids who wait silently, and kids who cry, and kids who tantrum, and eventually we do the thing together. And then, regardless of what happened while we waited, I thank them and it's over till we need to do it again, and there's no anger or consequences or discussion. I'm probably not explaining it well.

I think the parents know me well enough to know that's not the situation here.

Maybe I'm overprotective, but I wouldn't allow my 14 year old to go camping alone with another 14 year old, regardless of gender.

A commercial outfitter that we've used for whitewater rafting before, and that our scout troop has used for years. We haven't done this trip because you have to be 12 or older, and have the kids have only been 12 or older since the pandemic, and the other half are turning 12 now. And of course we'd be wearing life preservers.

It would be with an organization that I've had experience with and trust.

I think I answered this above while you were typing this.

Do you have kids over at your house without two adults there? I guess I don't see a difference between my BIL and the four boys in a rented cabin, and the same 4 kids having a sleepover when just one adult is home. Given that I'm basically single parenting right now (not actually single, but alone in my house with my kids) if we needed two deep supervision all the time my kids would never have friends over. Scouting, or school for me, is a totally different situation.

Yes, she's spent time with all the kids in the group and gets along well with everyone. She's as rough and tumble outdoorsy as the rest of them. The only person she doesn't know is my niece who just graduated, because she's been away at school, but they are actually really similar personalities and I am sure will hit it off. To be clear, what my son wants most for his birthday is to go kayaking with her. So, we'll go kayaking because that's already been run past her parents. The question is just whether we go kayaking, spend the night, and then do a second activity (e.g mountain biking) or we come back that evening.