[Prime Climb game]

8 hours ago, Hillcottagemom said:

As far as how much fun it is, my kids don't choose it in their free time. It's been relegated to school time status, but they often ask for a second or third round when we do play. 

That’s ok, we have other games like that which fall into “math games”.  That is great info, and likely how my kids would treat it too.

[Prime Climb game]

Has anyone tried Math for Love’s Prime Climb game?  If so, did you find it fun, and what ages/skills does it require?

[Math Curriculum Woes]

On 1/31/2021 at 5:47 PM, Angela Mora said:

I've started incorporating more math games, and my daughter does like them.  She does like hands-on math; but again, I feel I need something to use rather than me just playing games with her. I don't mind that as a supplement, but I do feel she needs more

Kate Snow’s Addition facts that stick (the demos with 10-frames and the games, more so than the worksheets) was a useful supplement for my Gr.2 child in improving recall while doing something she enjoyed. This could be used alongside another program that kept working on conceptual learning. 

[Torn on math]

15 minutes ago, Masers said:

He wants to be around me or his dad ALL THE TIME. Literally always. He definitely gets his tank filled from socializing and time with others, and gets really upset when he feels like he’s not getting that need met.

That would be super challenging! My youngest wants to be around people all the time, but doesn’t need to talk all the time, fortunately.  I wonder if you have other extrovert, or even extrovert-tolerant kids? Especially as they get older they can pair off and amuse each other.  That might not be realistic yet, though. Thank goodness for books!  Does he like to read out loud? Maybe he could read to the preschooler while you were doing a bean counting demo with your other son? 

[Torn on math]

On 2/1/2021 at 10:13 AM, Masers said:

He just has to be a part of the action, which I understand, but it makes it so hard for him to complete anything without getting distracted

It sounds like you are doing everything and then some with games. I think this will get a bit easier as he matures, but I don’t have any good suggestions. I’m an introvert but so are my kids. 

[Torn on math]

On 1/30/2021 at 2:13 PM, Masers said:

Yes, for sure...he’ll insist on being part of any game playing. He stops his work every time I try to do something fun with his brothers, no matter how young it is.

We tend to do our games at other times besides “school time” so as not to distract people, and also because I’m only home in the evenings, but even easy games are open to all and I try to make them feel like actual games, even if they also give math practice. 

[Torn on math]

6 hours ago, Masers said:

my oldest will freak out because his brother gets to do fun math, and why does he have to always do hard stuff,

Maybe play math games with both together, it will be easier for the older but still practice & exposure?  We’ve used Kate Snow’s games that way (Addition Facts that Stick) for my 7, 9 and 12 year olds all together, and I think Math for Love would have some that could work for mixed ages. 
It’s hard being the oldest! 

[Does this math curriculum exist?]

23 hours ago, Masers said:

So you do the books, though, and not the online version?

We do the books, yes. I haven’t tried the online version. We use other resources like games and Kate Snow books and sometimes “newspapers” that I write up with goofy bogus news and a Puzzle of the Day that is related to whatever needs more practice at the moment. 

I think BA has a new book of puzzles based on Gr. 2 concepts that could be used occasionally. 

[Macrons in Latin and accents in Greek]

Not sure about Greek, but in German/Welsh/French the accents sometimes distinguish words from each other, and tell how to changing the pronunciation, so I do encourage my kids to use them and I use them myself. It gets them more used to how the words look. If it was the last straw, though, I wouldn’t insist at the expense of making progress in the language.

[Does this math curriculum exist?]

21 hours ago, Masers said:

Ideally, I want something that we can stick with for the long haul, so they don’t have these gaps. 

Do you do Beast academy online or workbooks? 

Changing methods midway does seem to create gaps, because they approach things in a different order.  The books I know best are Beast Academy, because that’s what we’re using. From what you’ve said about your kids not liking frustration, BA may not be a good match, because a degree of frustration is designed in. As well, a friend who wasn’t so mathy found that Math Mammoth worked better for her because when her son got stuck with BA, she wasn’t sure how to solve it herself to help walk him through it, and with MM, it was more straightforward.

[Does this math curriculum exist?]

4 hours ago, Masers said:

I’m beginning to think I should just outsource math to my much more mathematically inclined husband. (He works a lot and is only home in the evenings, which are already super busy and stressful, and my son is *done* with work by then, so I feel like we’d be setting ourselves up for failure with that schedule

We tried this in my household (I did the math after work instead of my husband doing it along with the other subjects during the day, since I am more enthusiastic about math than he is). We got behind schedule a lot because the kids were tired or I was busy.  So I think your instincts are right about this in my experience.  But I think you can learn all the material you need to!

[Thinking about highschool math...]

On 8/28/2020 at 8:05 PM, square_25 said:

So, this is just my take, but I did everything topsy-turvy and had my kid USE the distributive property to multiply all the time, so that by the time we got to it in symbols, it was really obvious. 

I think we’ll play around with this for a bit, he knows it to a degree but not to the point where it’s really obvious.  
Thanks for the examples!

[Thinking about highschool math...]

7 hours ago, square_25 said:

I just find them orthogonal. Learning the concepts well usually involves working on them as long as a kid needs, finding useful mental models, seeing them from many angles. But I don’t find that it’s super related to how challenging the work is. Some kids thrive with challenge and some don’t.

Thanks for this mental image, that makes sense to me as a useful way to think about teaching. There aren’t any particular math concepts that are causing me difficulties right now. I’m trying some new ideas for showing the distributive property to my 9 year old following this discussion and I think it’s going well. 😀 

[Thinking about highschool math...]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:09 PM, LMD said:

They are both capable of similar outcomes, with similar effort, the effort just comes in different spots and needs different support - does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense, and is a helpful way to think about it.  Thanks!

[Thinking about highschool math...]

1 hour ago, square_25 said:

I’m not sure what it means to learn the concepts to a challenging degree. I find that you can learn concepts very well without that much challenge. 

Hmm, I think I mean in a way that continues to stretch the student, to keep looking for ways to understand what isn’t simple for them.  But the question you’ve asked suggests that there may be a more useful way to look at things. Do you find that most  of your students learn more/better with less challenge? 

[Thinking about highschool math...]

10 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

FWIW, I do disagree with the bolded comment.  Simply bc other texts provide more direct instruction of concepts does not mean they are "procedural."  There is a wide range of possibilities between AoPS and procedural math programs.

Thanks for responding with such a detailed description of your family’s experience with various math curricula. I agree fully that there is a wide range of worthwhile possibilities besides AOPS. I was actually just using it as an example of a program that I was familiar with the approach (at least at BA level), and I’m sorry that it came across as a comparison. 

My question was more about teaching philosophy, I think. Do you strive for having kids who learn the concepts to a challenging degree right through high school maths, and even when maths isn’t their passion?

[Thinking about highschool math...]

3 hours ago, LMD said:

I should clarify re beast academy that I'm talking about my state/country (Aus) standards for maths. I did go through our state standards and compared it to beast, and I could cover to the end of 6th grade maths without anything more than (I *think*) 5a... and that to a much, much higher standard. 

I’ve done the same comparison with our provincial standards, and year 5 covers almost everything in that grade range here too. Graphing is the exception, I think. It’s easy to get twitchy about saying you’re doing “Gr. 5“ into early Gr. 7, though, even though I know the material is reasonably  equivalent.  

What has been your experience with doing AOPS/BA or other challenging-type math programs with kids for whom math is not their passion and their primary interest? Do you have this situation in your family? Would you emphasize it less or choose more procedural approaches based on interest, or is it worth digging into for all your kids?

[Thinking about highschool math...]

21 hours ago, LMD said:

E.g. I really really like beast academy, but I would have no problem stretching it out for the whole of end of 1st/2nd to 6th grade, even into the 1st half of 7th. I feel like it is rich enough and solid enough, and I can see that it is building and preparing for higher maths, that I wouldn't rush through it, and I would pause where they get frustrated with other material.

I feel better reading this, because we are about on track for the first half of 7th grade with finishing  BA here. I don’t want to rush and push when I can see she is steadily learning and has a good attitude to math.

It’s been helpful reading your “waffle” and the responses to it, thank you for sharing it!  I am inspired to play more games and to step back more readily when something isn’t clicking to look at it from a different perspective. 😀

[Thinking about highschool math...]

21 hours ago, LMD said:

What I tend to use now is: Miquon/MEP/Singapore for K/1st. Beast Academy/Singapore/whatever I have on hand for particular topic reviews for 2-6ish

Would you say that you use a similar mix of resources for each, according to what works best for you to teach and what you have the most enthusiasm for, or much more individual according to what seems to best suit each child? 
The biggest picture is probably helping your kids develop adult math skills and interest, which can go in a lot of different directions. How to get there - just thinking it over, and since you have so many resources, and are comfortable using a variety, would choosing a table of contents that makes sense to you from one of your resources work as an outline?  AOPS, say, or MEP for an intertwined one as used in Aus/Can? Then you could choose material to cover that objective from wherever you felt it was best covered.  This is just a random idea I got from your description.

[Thinking about highschool math...]

Thanks, @LMD, for describing your path so well! It gives me lots to think about and some ideas to try, as well as a better understanding of what led to your question.  I’m in the elementary to middle transition with my oldest, and observing how different math people interact with math styles, so I can see there will lots going on in the next few years. I am with you in wanting to see the big picture to move forward.

[Thinking about highschool math...]

How did you get to this point, @LMD? I’m thinking about some of these questions too, so I’d be interested to hear what your approach has been so far, and what has been important along the way.