Targhee
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Posts posted by Targhee
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10 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:
That would be the standard view promoted by linguists everywhere, Targhee. If a linguistic change means the language no longer meets the speakers' needs, then either it won't be made in the first place or they'll find a way to adapt. (When we ditched the T/V distinction in English we also lost the singular/plural distinction in the second person, but in many communities there are new words to fill that gap, like y'all, youse, or yinz. And of course some very small communities still retain thou.)
I am asking for clarity. I can see the point from a neutral standpoint of watching a natural process, not unlike noting the physical adaptation of say birds beaks as neither good nor bad but serving a purpose. But if we continue that same analogy, I would mourn over the extinction of beautiful bird, not in the same impassive vein but on an aesthetic level. To mourn the one does not mean you ascribe no value to the new species who fills the firsts’ niche.
So I suppose I see two different lenses through which this change can be observed - one as a scientific observer and one as a conservationist. Are there not efforts around the world to save the diversity of language at risk of “extinction”? Would the neutral-observer linguist see this “extinction” as a natural, utilitarian process?
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1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:
This idea that the prestige dialect used by educated people in formal settings is more "elegant" is profoundly classist, and you've got the causation backwards. We think it's elegant because we admire the people who speak that way. When we say other people are not speaking as elegantly or beautifully, that's because we don't think as much of them.
All dialects of all languages follow rules. The person who says "Where you at?" is not just randomly tossing words together. They will never say "At where you?" or "Where where at at?" or "Where you in?" or any of the infinite possibilities that are ungrammatical in that dialect. The implicit claim that non-standard speech doesn't follow rules is both classist and erroneous.
I disagree. I admire many people, my own extended family, greatly while at the same time not describing their usage/dialect as eloquent. My grandfather was a man of few words, had a basic education, and spent his entire life in a small geographic area where he farmed potatoes and preferred to work in his shop over socializing or other things. I remember him as a grounded, hard working man who possessed a great deal of practical wisdom, and someone I admired and loved very much. I was eager to listen when he spoke. But I wouldn’t describe his speech as eloquent or beautiful. Comfortable, yes. Of value, yes.
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4 hours ago, Tsuga said:
I couldn't agree with your post more. In addition, I want to point out that this is really not a debate about "tradition" since the tradition of language evolving is as old as humanity itself.
It's a prescriptivist vs. descriptivist debate.
To my mind, language is a natural phenomenon. I'm a hard-core descriptivist. You wouldn't tell a bird their song was wrong if they changed it so if a tribe begins using a new word-order norm, who cases?
That doesn't mean you should not use the language to express thoughts clearly. But there will always be trade-offs. Strict about word order? Without augmenting the average person's computational power, they will compensate by playing fast and loose with things like case. Strict about declensions? People will have fun with word order.
"Thou" no longer is used for "tu". That is a definite loss for English, but we've gained a fascinating library of other social and linguistic cues to indicate respect and social standing.
So are you saying that all changes to language are neutral in value?
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1 minute ago, maize said:
Am I the only one who has NEVER heard the term 2E IRL? I'm only familiar with it from forums like this--actually, maybe just this forum as my other forums are gardening forums...
I find the concept of 2E very useful--I was a kid with exceptional strengths AND exceptional weaknesses, and was regularly labeled as lazy, not caring, etc. because people who saw the strengths couldn't believe the weaknesses weren't just a choice.
I've got a kid or two with peaks and valleys like that.
I do find it off-putting when people with gifted kids attribute huge struggles to the kid's giftedness--the "oh, gifted kids are sooo sensitive and intense" kind of thing--because really kids all along the IQ spectrum can be super sensitive and intense and crazy hard to parent.
Yes! In another group I am in for 2e parents a woman was frustrated with IQ testing results (they did not show child was gifted). When asked why she thinks the tests were wrong, what indications she had the child was gifted, her list included nothing but over-excitabilities (Debrowski) but no demonstrations of exceptional intelligence (in any domain).
At the same time though, even as a parent I find it difficult to always parse our what is related to child’s exceptionalities and what is simply misbehavior, and struggle to determine how to respond with appropriate expectations. It’s so murky sometimes.
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22 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:
Are IQs of 130+ really that rare? That hasn’t been my experience, which probably means I’m in somewhat of a bubble?
That’s a good question. I do not think I know the IQ of a single person besides my children. I do know that I have my own “bubble” of people with whom I work and associate with, and live by, that probably skews higher IQ for a number of reasons. I would hazard to say on the boards here there’s a skew to higher intellectual ability (though I have no proof of such a claim). In general, don’t people tend to relate better to those within a certain bandwidth around their own IQ? And therefore are we not probably selective, whether we are aware of this or not, towards people of similar intelligence? And if you happen to have a higher IQ then there’s a good chance the people in your “bubble” do as well.
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At about 3:30 is a good answer to your question (warning: language).
Usage of English has on the whole careened away from rules and forms. While I understand language changes, I do see this as a part of the overall decline in the power of English language. It has been denuded by anti-intellectualism, past the point of its intent to remove elitism (which it was not effective in anyway) through to another extreme where the more terse, pithy, or truncated a word or phrase is the better, and to where grammar has been dethroned by “style” and “creativity.”
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I like the term 2e for discussion forums like this - I can convey a complex situation in a general but quick way. I don’t think my kids have heard the term often, nor do I think they self-identify with it.
I do think it’s tossed about in different ways and can become ill defined. In my experience it has generally meant a child who is gifted (not necessarily PG) but has a something else going on that is a struggle because it is not neurotypical (eg adhd, ASD, dyslexia, LD, apraxia/dyspraxia, SPD, CAPD, etc).
There are plenty people who are singularly exceptional. Most of those receiving gifted education services are, because often the second exceptionality of a 2e individual masks their gifts (and they are not even screened for programs) or they are expected to excel without any supports (and they struggle to keep up with “high achieving” kids and dropped from programs). For example my grade-accelerated 1st grader was completely misunderstood by public teacher. She met with us to suggest moving her back to K mud-year (because she was always the last child out of the bathroom, had trouble opening the classroom door sometimes, and didn’t color in the lines). The teacher never even clued in to her gifts, only her difficulties. Well what she needed was OT for muscle deficiency, an adhd/anxiety/LD dx and treatment, and even greater curriculum enrichment, but also some supports for EF weakness.
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Would your 5th grader like a book on animals or from an animal’s perspective? What about Secret of NIHM? Poppy? Warriors series (not high literary quality might get him reading)? Call of the Wild is excellent, but maybe a stretch for a 5th grader who doesn’t like reading.
Fablehaven and Rangers Apprentice are both fantasy series my kids liked at those ages. And Chronicles of Prydain. Oh, and Rick Riordan’s original series.
My DS bridges over into light sci-Fi/dystopian with Robot Wars, Among the Hidden, and the Enders Game books (warning Enders game has some swearing and has boys fighting, in one scene pretty savagely).
My oldest started reading Sherlock Holmes then and just loved them. But the most beloved was Lord of the Rings.
Other single good books the oldest three have liked at this age:
When You Reach Me, Apothacary, The Bronze Bow, Phantom Tollbooth, The Westing Game, Number the Stars
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You could do Nance’s Intro and Intermediate Logic Books, or MP’s Traditional Logic. There are others no doubt, but these two are great for Homeschoolers. We used Nance. Possibly moving on to Kreeft’s Socratic Logic next year.
There is also a Coursera Logic course, WHA, and likely others.
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On 4/17/2018 at 10:34 PM, Targhee said:
Still uncertain about what DD6 will do (she’s in half day K this year), but if she’s home:
RS B
HWOT, copywork, PLL
AAS 1 + 2
Lots of reading (her choice from our shelves) and read alouds (my choice from our shelves)
SOTW 1
We don’t use curricula for science at this age - lots of experimental play, good books, some magic school bus, and lots of time out of doors in nature
I post in these threads and it gets me going but I usually, after further contemplation, make big changes.
Singapore PM 1A/B
LOE Foundations B-D, books from our family library she reads to me, copywork, poetry memorization
Jr Great Books Pegasus, finish vol 1 and move to vol 2 of Journeys Through Bookland, lots of other read alouds from family and public libraries...
Geography, very gently with resources I already have, no real spine
Singapore Early Bird Science (I never buy science for this age, but this year I’m not goin to be available to do much for science like I usually do ? so this is my backup)
Artistic Pursuits
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I second Nim, also Pig and Hex (games you play with household items, not ones you purchase, though you need to print a board for Hex - I put mine in a sheet protector and use dry erase pens).
There are some very fun games on EducationUnboxed if you have cuisenaire rods and a white board.
Math Dice Jr, Frog Juice, Yahtzee are all games you can purchase at Walmart/Target/etc.
Have a great time!!
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Two years is a stretch for oldest with an expressive speech LD. DS starts Latin 1 with Lukeion this fall and I hope he goes all the way to AP or DE.
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?We have OWC Ancients on the shelf. I really want to do it, but I am trying to find a way to get history -hater girl to come along with me. Perhaps this approach would work?
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1 hour ago, Paradox5 said:
So we can all look forward to you releasing such a program in time for fall, right? ?
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25 minutes ago, NormaElle said:
I don't want to hijack but is W&R worthwhile to use for a year between WWE and WWS?
It is very different than WWE or WWS, and it’s a program that builds. I don’t think it would be a waste, but it isn’t going to be a bridge between the two. The narrations in W&R are easier than WWE 4, and the dictation is easier than WWE 3 (IMO). However, W&R was so much more enjoyable than WWE, at least for us. And there is a lot more to it than narration and dictation - there’s discussion, and lots of work on style, and there’s original composition. If you want to do it you might start in book 2 or 3 if you are coming out of WWE 3.
If you are waiting on maturity to start WWS then you might just continue doing narration and dictation from your own selections. That would be a better bridge between programs.
W&R got my boy who hates academic writing, *hates* narration, and HATES dictation moving with writing. He has natural style and voice, but the exercises in W&R improved on those traits. The stand out part of W&R is the underlying vision of teaching truth, beauty, wisdom. It is not overt, but it is apparent in the selections, in the discussion questions, in the overall direction of the program, and even in the materials themselves.
Honestly for middle school I wish there were a good combination of LToW (for persuasive essay structure, invention, and thorough weighing of an issue on which to write) and WWS *with additional attention to the big picture of why you’re doing each step* (for research writing), and W&R (for the progym models, the variety of writing activities, and the intentional direction towards truth and beauty).
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45 minutes ago, zarabellesmom said:
I agree with the outlining instruction being insufficient. I looked for a Remedia Press book on outlining but a quick search isn't turning it up for me. Can't you point me in the right direction Targhee?
https://www.amazon.com/REMEDIA-PUBLICATIONS-REM134-OUTLINING-GR/dp/B000QCBC2M
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On 4/6/2018 at 6:39 AM, SparklyUnicorn said:
The only struggle he has is coming up with what to write about. And it does not matter if it is creative writing or not. IEW has made that a bit better, but he is still under the impression he has to produce something profound. For example, the past few days we have been working on outlining a short story. He was very excited about changing it up to make it a bit different. We brainstormed ideas, etc. Then when he went to write he flipped out. So after trying various things to help him along I just said write the story as if you are writing a letter to a friend about this event. That got him going at least. But even with non-fiction stuff requiring one to basically regurgitate the information, he flips. Not sure what to do about that!
He does well with grammar, punctuation, spelling, structuring sentences and paragraphs, etc.
I would like him to practice writing more, and I want whatever we use to be mostly open and go. Sometimes I spend so much time looking for the perfect story or resource that we might not get to writing because I haven't found anything. Apparently the indecisiveness runs in the family! Haha...
I would be perfectly fine with not doing too much creative writing. He has a love hate thing with it. He loves the idea of it, but he hates having to actually do it because he gets stressed over not being able to be original and interesting.
Lost Tools of Writing
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The series walks through the levels of the progymnasmata. The first 5 books are roughly the format of: read a writing selection (narrative Chreia, etc), narrate or outline the selection (there’s dictation in the earlier levels too), and then discuss the selection and answer some questions. Then working on writing style (lots of word and sentence level work - eg using stronger verbs, rearranging the sentence for variation, mimicking model sentences, etc). After that there is writing - either amplifying or summarizing, writing in the same model (eg a Chreia). There are also speaking (pre rhetoric skills) activities like poetry memorization, read through a dialogue, or writing a short speech and deliver, etc.
The program works incrementally, there is a lot of variety to the activities (vs strict narration, dictation, copywork and then narrations and outlines). It is much more than narration. My favorite part of the program is the Talk About It and Go Deeper sections, which baby step you into discussing ideas. Ideas are critical to writing! Who cares if you can write a structurally correct essay with good style if the thing you have to say isn’t worthwhile?
Some people feel there isn’t enough in the teacher manual (there isn’t a lot, but there are good things in there). We did use the Remedia Press outlining book for several weeks b cause the outlining instruction was insufficient. Otherwise I really I have loved this program. Good luck, HTH
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In the past we slowly tapered off in June, had July off, and gradually ramped up in August. It was great because I needed the break, and the kids probably did too. I like to contemplate the year, completed and upcoming, and research and plan. Now we have ties with the schools so we follow the school calendar (mid Aug through late May).
They have more public school friends now too (we moved and lost our HS community), so it is easier to do things with them during the school district breaks. And we don’t have the amazing offerings for HSers that we did in the PNW, so we don’t have very many field trip and “slough” days during the year so we are tired by the end.
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@kristin0713 still possible for you to add me for 2, and PM the message as well?
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Hmm... I don’t know if it is unique to my perspective as a homeschooler, as an educator, or as an analytic thinker, but I can see some things that the schools do that are problematic. For example, my dd who did half day K this year was at the computer lab *every day* doing stupid activities on the computer based learning program the school bought into - they are only there half a day and you plop them in front of a screen! My 5th grader was teaching all the other kids the math because no one understood the teacher’s instructions and answers to questions (they use GoMath which is district wide adopted and it has a bunch of CC style “explain why you did this” crap in it, and the teachers are not trained well enough in the math to teach it well - dd 5th grade had a background in RS, Singapore, and BA so she understands the math well). The writing instruction in 5th is terrible! They teach output/quantity and opinions (no backed by cogent reasoning, really they would better be called feelings than opinions) are what are important, and don’t touch on grammar, mechanics, and quality of writing (or organization, or stylistic techniques).
At the same time I see things the school pulls off well, like the 5th geaders’ Great Americans program where 90+ kids had singing, speaking, musical numbers, costumes, etc and they (teachers) did an amazing job!
What kind of things are you seeing?
(background: we just finished our 8th year of homeschooling and this year I had 1 FT public, one half day K, and one half day early college program/half home, and one fully home)
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31 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:
Our home in Ohio has one, but our homes in Alaska had no central air conditioning and that’s pretty typical. Newer and higher end builds did tend to have it, but it was still far from standard.
We lived in SE AK and I don’t think anywhere I went (except Costco) had AC. The newer houses all had HVRC units though and that helped. But really, in SE 80 was an unheard of heat wave. I didn’t live in the interior though and I am sure mid summer was roasty.
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We currently do not have central air, and live in the American SW where summer temps are 80-100+ but they are dry and the nights are usually 30+ degrees cooler. We are however building a new home with central AC.
Summers in DC killed me - we had no AC and the humidity was inescapable. I am not a heat-loving person. I preferred living in AK and the PNW.
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We did allow oldest (only one with a phone) to check her texts and emails twice a day. She’s not super social, so it was not too hard on her. The other thing we did was invite people over more. Kids could also invite people to activities (swimming, hiking, the park, etc). I have several friends who have given their kids “dumb” phones for the texting. And a few of my friends use Circle with Disney to control/limit things at home, even for their teens. I’m not sure of the particulars but I thought you could limit domains so maybe turn off everything but google hangouts?
Call me a Luddite if you will, but I truly think the Internet and smart phones (and on-demand TV, on demand food, 2-day shipping on anything under the sun, immediate results for so much!) are messing with our brains. And our kids’ brains most severely. I’m not sure how to tackle this - technology has true benefits and is in every aspect of our lives - but I’m all for tackling it. We aren’t that far off from floating around in our hover chairs with our septuacentennial cupcake-in-a-cups
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How long do you expect a dryer to last?
in The Chat Board
Posted
Having bought a washer, dryer, and fridge within the last 6 years I was told with each purchase that 10-15 years is the life span. It’s sad! I was also told that manufacturers only intend the appliances to last about that long because they will be obsolete (tech wise) by then. I don’t know, if you can get my clothes clean that’s all I care about.