Spelling...Phonetic Zoo or....?

[OneStepAtATime]

The diagnosis for DS of dyslexia is now highly questionable because of the results of his vision evaluation.   He will be doing 10 months of Vision Therapy but DH and I are hoping we can keep going with some academics, although we may take the summer off.   Barton is not working as well for him as for his sister (who is very definitely dyslexic).  I am considering Phonetic Zoo from IEW since it has a strong auditory component (one of his extreme strengths).  I was wondering if anyone had feedback regarding Phonetic Zoo?

[PeterPan]

You've done VT before in your family?  I'll give you the advice, the btdt thing.  VT was very hard for my dd and very fatiguing.  We largely put aside academics during that time.  Some people have that happen more, some less.  My concern with saying go non-dyslexic materials is that you don't know if it's dyslexia AND vision problems.  Who is saying his diagnosis is questionable?  You?  The eye doc?  A psych?  How much of that CTOPP score was dependent on vision?  We've had *one* person come on saying they were given a dyslexia diagnosis that went away with VT.  More commonly it's *both* going on.  

 

So what's going on with him and Barton?  What was his visual memory score with the VT testing?  Have you done any RAN/RAS work?  What did the summer tutoring place think?  Did they too have trouble making progress with him?

 

I think in general the PZ is working the opposite direction of what the VT is trying to do for you.  The PZ is reinforcing using auditory strategies to learn, and the VT doc is going to be begging you to use visualization.  I'm not saying you can't/shouldn't use PZ but just that it's not really addressing the long-term issues.  

 

Where is his reading vs. spelling?  Are they paired?  I'd like to know those visual memory scores, because I think that would tell you how much room you have to improve with accommodations.  (kinesthetic, larger print, etc.)  And what you *could* do is create a list of things you need to work on that create a foundation for all his new skills to come together when the VT is done.  So like if his RAN/RAS is low (look at his CTOPP), you could put that on the list.  If OT stuff, put some of that on the list.  If language, put some of that on the list.  There's a lot you could do with oral composition and working memory.  Typing would be another.  

 

I think I'm saying the answer to or what? depends on what is going on, like the complete picture.  My dd started sounding out words on her own (same age, btw) after a month or two of VT.  It was honestly shocking, because she had spent so many years being unwilling to sound out!  She is labeled ADHD, very bright, turns out no SLDs, and had very poor working memory.  The VT will make some of that EF kick in too, so you'll hear about leaps kids make and that will be the reason, that it was bumping their EF.  Then you could go ok, if EF is behind a LOT of this, then let's work on EF!  Not terribly fatiguing, not going to be limited by vision, and it's another good thing to work on.  You could make a list of 20 good things to work on that don't include spelling.  Spelling might be comparatively unimportant.  In another couple years you might give up on it anyway.  I finally did.  She's not dyslexic and the spell check on the computer is enough for her. 

 

Fwiw, if he's not dyslexic, Barton still should have worked.  

 

Another thing to consider working on?  Grit and tenacity.  Actually, when dd had her evals, there was some measure of perseverance and how well she would stick to a frustrating task.  It was terrible!  And then think about fun, non-stressful, relaxing ways you can work on that.  Puzzles would be one.  You could do puzzles each day, starting low and working up.  They're good for the vision to complement the VT, and they're good for grit and tenacity.  And they make you look like a fun mom while you know you're accomplishing your goals!

 

And if it makes you feel any better, Pudewa has a story about his parents trapping him on a boat and reading aloud to him for hours on end.  He has this theory that people should take a year and do nothing but read alouds.  He's really serious.  And I think VT is a good time to do that.  :)

[OneStepAtATime]

You have some valid points.  As for what is happening with Barton that is causing him to struggle, I think it is a combination of his vision issues, an auditory processing glitch, and his age/attitude.  

 

He has never had a full neuropsych eval.  His last evaluation was in 2nd grade with a CALT specialist.  We intended to do a full eval this summer but the eye doctor is recommending we wait until VT is over with.  She feels the results will be too skewed.

 

I guess we could still move forward with an eval through an audiologist to see why the strange sound glitches, even though he is incredibly articulate (and has been since he was tiny).  Money is a huge factor now, though.  

 

10 months without academics seems a really long time.  I don't know that DH would be hip on that but I might be able to present it as just a different way of doing academics.  Lots of read alouds and audio books, maybe, plus some outside activities.  DH was actually really hoping we could enroll him in the dyslexia school in the same city as the VT but he no longer wants to go, we can't really afford it anymore, and with him doing VT I don't think it is a good idea.

[PeterPan]

Oh I agree with you.  The VT will be fatiguing, and the more you can do the homework, the better.  

 

I think you're catching on that alternative academics doesn't mean NO academics, lol.  And you could ask the VT doc for some kind of time estimate on improvements.  My dd got a big boost by 3 months in, and after that it was visual processing gains.  Ten months is pretty severe.  And to me, because it's that severe, I'm just guessing he's going to need things cut back a bit.  He might have headaches and fatigue.  You might get done an hour of something, then do the VT homework, then go to hands-on and videos, kwim?  

 

That's really awesome that your dh is willing to enroll your ds in a dyslexia school!  That shows he's taking things seriously.  I would think you would want evals before doing that.  I think if you talked with a psych who specializes in dyslexia about whether you should wait on evals to do VT first, they would have a cow and tell you you're getting fed bunk.  Even our VT doc, whom I like, said something similar, saying that to them dyslexia is a vision problem.  So you have to remember that IS the VT doc's bias, that they're coming from that perspective.

 

I think that would be really awesome to get that audiology eval.  What you're saying is very concerning.  Around here I can get that screening for $35 at the university.  I don't know what you can get, but even the private pay $380 is still way less than a lot of other things.  I'll even be ornery (you know me) and say I'd do VT straight for the first month or two and then take it to every other week with lots of homework so you can put some of that money toward the audiology.  There's a lot you can do at home, and that audiology eval might give you important information!  Has he had an SLP eval?  That's something your ps could do for you.  Actually, not to point out the obvious, but your ps could do the psych eval and a fresh CTOPP too.  See how much of the CTOPP is auditory vs. print to decide the timing of that.  My ds was young, so I'm guessing his was all auditory.  I don't know how it goes with an 11 yo.

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh, and yes DS did a sort of VT a couple of years ago but it caused him massive headaches and he was utterly miserable.  The current eye doctor emphasized that what the other doctor had done (which was entirely computer based, the eye doctor did nothing at all, there was no follow up, no work at home except for the computer stuff, etc.) was meant as a maintenance program, not true VT.

[PeterPan]

I'll just warn you again, some kids react really differently from others.  My dd is very sensitive to pain because of her sensory, and VT was AWFUL for her.  She made huge gains, don't regret it, but it just was NOT a high academic time for her.  Since you know he gets headaches, massive headaches, and has some apparently severe vision problems, I think you're going to HAVE to allow for that.  You're going to need to take your list of goals and see what is flexible, what could be done other ways, and prioritize.  You might also want to build in some motivators or some high value things to look forward to.  So for instance summer is coming and maybe you'd like daily swim lessons or going to the pool.  So I'd schedule the VT homework for before that thing, so he at least has something to look forward to.  Or field trips or camping or...

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh I agree with you.  The VT will be fatiguing, and the more you can do the homework, the better.  

 

I think you're catching on that alternative academics doesn't mean NO academics, lol.  And you could ask the VT doc for some kind of time estimate on improvements.  My dd got a big boost by 3 months in, and after that it was visual processing gains.  Ten months is pretty severe.  And to me, because it's that severe, I'm just guessing he's going to need things cut back a bit.  He might have headaches and fatigue.  You might get done an hour of something, then do the VT homework, then go to hands-on and videos, kwim?  

 

That's really awesome that your dh is willing to enroll your ds in a dyslexia school!  That shows he's taking things seriously.  I would think you would want evals before doing that.  I think if you talked with a psych who specializes in dyslexia about whether you should wait on evals to do VT first, they would have a cow and tell you you're getting fed bunk.  Even our VT doc, whom I like, said something similar, saying that to them dyslexia is a vision problem.  So you have to remember that IS the VT doc's bias, that they're coming from that perspective.

 

I think that would be really awesome to get that audiology eval.  What you're saying is very concerning.  Around here I can get that screening for $35 at the university.  I don't know what you can get, but even the private pay $380 is still way less than a lot of other things.  I'll even be ornery (you know me) and say I'd do VT straight for the first month or two and then take it to every other week with lots of homework so you can put some of that money toward the audiology.  There's a lot you can do at home, and that audiology eval might give you important information!  Has he had an SLP eval?  That's something your ps could do for you.  Actually, not to point out the obvious, but your ps could do the psych eval and a fresh CTOPP too.  See how much of the CTOPP is auditory vs. print to decide the timing of that.  My ds was young, so I'm guessing his was all auditory.  I don't know how it goes with an 11 yo.

The reason I am trusting the VT doc on maybe waiting for a full neuropsych is because the eye doctor is actually dyslexic AND has similar vision issues to DS.  She knew exactly what I was talking about with dyslexia and had to have extensive reading remediation herself.  She ran a rudimentary dyslexia screening and was showing me that when the visual issues are sort of neutralized DS is actually decoding at more like 7th/8th even 9th grade level.  That is why she is questioning the dyslexia diagnosis he got in 2nd grade through the CALT specialist.  She isn't saying he isn't dyslexic.  She is saying that until he has had some solid work on his severe vision deficits that an evaluation through a neuropsychologist may not be that accurate and would potentially be wasting valuable financial resources.

 

And yes we really need the audiology eval.  

 

I will not go through the local school system.  The support and understanding of learning challenges here is horrible.  For example, at our local elementary the Principal is so convinced that there is no such thing as dyslexia or dysgraphia or ADHD or anything else along those lines that she has pulled all services and has refused federal and state money so she doesn't have to offer them.  There are actually lawsuits going on right now because the local school district is not following state guidelines.  As an example of how bad it is, a dear friend whose child has dsygraphia found out he was being pulled into the main office weekly to write 100 times that he was lazy and needed to work harder on his handwriting.   :scared:

Edited May 1, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[PeterPan]

Oh my!!!  Your school district sounds horrific.  :(

 

What you're saying makes good sense.  Interestingly, the first APD screening done on my ds flagged on half the stuff, not the whole test, and the half that flagged was all stuff you'd fail a a dyslexic.  I'm just agreeing that there could be this overlap in effect of the disabilities, making it tricky to distinguish.  That will be fascinating when you get the audiology eval.

 

Fwiw, I like PZ.  Haven't used it myself, just saying I really like Pudewa and what I've seen of PZ online.  Your logic on why you'd do it makes sense.  Or put the money toward the audiology exam.  :D