s/o from Where's the Logic thread? What if your child has never been exposed to this stuff?

[julikins]

I've been reading the WTM for the first time since I started homeschooling and was shocked to see that I should be teaching logic. I had never known it was a subject to teach and was not taught it in my own education. Then there have been some threads on here recently about Logic. Hmmm...I need to do this, but how? Can you help me?

 

So, I have a 6th grader and 3rd grader. Neither of which have done anything from Critical Thinking company or Fallacy detective, or any of those others I've seen mentioned, Logic Liftoff, Orbiting with Logic, etc. Where do I start? What is my goal? I understand what I read in WTM and agree with the benefits and necessities of teaching it. And my husband has agreed he'd like to teach it for me.

 

So what do you start with at 6th grade to progress to a formal study of logic. What path would you take? What programs do you like? I was looking at Building Thinking Skills Level 2 and wondered if I should use the software or the book, or what? Or is there something better for a 6th grader?

 

For my 3rd grader I can see following the WTM progression or something similar. What are your favorites?

 

 

[Walking-Iris]

First keep in mind that there are several branches to logic. The Building Thinking Skills books (and others like them)are good, but they are "puzzle" logic. They are good for kids because they can help in math and language skills. There's also straight math logic. Examples like Venn diagrams, sudoku, etc.

 

Philosophy IS logic. If you plan to cover any philosophy or ethics with your child then you will be doing more formal logic.

 

When kids are young I like to keep logic in the realm of the puzzle, math logic as well as language logic such as analogies etc.

 

As they get older you start teaching some straight philosophy, along with terminology (fallacy, inductive, deductive, sound, unsound, etc.)

 

But you have to build up to that stuff, and quite a bit of it will still be college level. Basically they are learning how to argue, refute or declare a statement/argument and back it up.

 

I've used Building Thinking Skills with my children, and Figure It Out and Logic Posters for math. My oldest is in 5th grade and next year I plan on using the Philosophy For Kids series and continuing with logic in math studies.

 

It might not have been called logic, but it's possible you had math logic in your math classes, and if you took a debate or public speaking class, you may have touched on some logic.

 

Some high schools cover it a bit in their psychology electives.

[Farrar]

I really like the progression from kid stuff to formal logic in the Logic Countdown series. We did the first one this year for third grade and we did it little by little, but presumably your 6th grader could fly through it and do the next book more slowly.

 

Also, don't be sure they haven't been exposed - my kids have video games with logic problems and have encountered them in various other ways.

[1pageatatime]

First keep in mind that there are several branches to logic. The Building Thinking Skills books (and others like them)are good, but they are "puzzle" logic. They are good for kids because they can help in math and language skills. There's also straight math logic. Examples like Venn diagrams, sudoku, etc.

 

Philosophy IS logic. If you plan to cover any philosophy or ethics with your child then you will be doing more formal logic.

 

When kids are young I like to keep logic in the realm of the puzzle, math logic as well as language logic such as analogies etc.

 

As they get older you start teaching some straight philosophy, along with terminology (fallacy, inductive, deductive, sound, unsound, etc.)

 

But you have to build up to that stuff, and quite a bit of it will still be college level. Basically they are learning how to argue, refute or declare a statement/argument and back it up.

 

I've used Building Thinking Skills with my children, and Figure It Out and Logic Posters for math. My oldest is in 5th grade and next year I plan on using the Philosophy For Kids series and continuing with logic in math studies.

 

It might not have been called logic, but it's possible you had math logic in your math classes, and if you took a debate or public speaking class, you may have touched on some logic.

 

Some high schools cover it a bit in their psychology electives.

 

 

If you have time, I would love links to your suggestions. TIA!! :grouphug:

[Walking-Iris]

http://www.criticalt...052/index_c.jsp

 

This is Building Thinking Skills. My oldest did Level 1. I let it be self-paced. These workbooks are pricey so we did quite a bit of it orally, and I made copies of the pages it would be best to write on. I feel like doing the next book could be a bit redundant so we're not doing it this year, I am however going to let my younger son play around with Primary. I don't plan or "teach" these books. Like I said above they were just interesting puzzles or games to my son. If he hated doing it I wouldn't have had any problems dropping it.

 

http://eps.schoolspe...fm?series=2289M

 

I haven't used these, but I have seen good reviews of these books.

 

For math I liked http://www.curriculu...tle=FigureItOut and http://teacherexpres...roblems-puzzles

 

But all of those are critical thinking or problem solving type activities.

 

http://www.amazon.co...#39;s discovery This is the Philosophy for Children books. If you search for the author Matthew Lipman you'll find several from 1st grade age and up as well as instructional manuals. I'm planning on reading and discussing Harry Stottlemeier and Elfie.

 

As far as other logic programs, I have toyed with the idea of looking into The Art of Argument ( but I prefer secular materials and I just haven't been able to look at AofA closely enough yet.), but for our 5th grade year we are going to do philosophy/ethics and some mommy made comparative religion. That's the need I see at the moment.

[NittanyJen]

DS12 went through Fallacy Detective first. It was not secular, but he really loved it.

 

We have done many mind benders and numerical mind benders from Critical Thinking Company as morning brain wake-up exercises.

 

During chemistry, we did use the RS4K KOGS program. I have a problem with the publsher's hidden ID agenda, but I felt all the KOGS books were well designed except for the critical thinking one, which made no sense; it appeared to be the same exercise over and over. I will probably use KOGS again for my next kid.

 

He has just finished Argument Builder, which built on the knowledge he acquired in Fallacy Detective.

 

Next up may be Discovery of Deduction, unless its rep for being lethally boring holds true, in which case we will move on to thevJames Madison Critical Thinking course, and put his logical argument skills to the test in a group setting with You Decide! which is a set of problems deciding Supreme Court cases in which the students must make fact-based arguments to support their positions.

 

 

[Lori D.]

It always helps me to understand WHY I am including a topic in my schooling. In case that helps you, too, here's my take-away from the WTM about Logic, and what Logic looked like in our homeschooling:

 

We valued *developing critical thinking skills* (being able to spot fallacies, being able to support your contentions, seeing consequences to choices, being able to analyze, develop "out of the box" thinking to aid in problem-solving, etc.) for real life help. "Formal Logic" was just one piece of that puzzle to us. So that's why we used a wide variety of puzzle types (not just the Mindbenders or grid logic puzzles listed in WTM), throughout the elementary/middle school years of schooling.

 

In the elementary grades, logic, critical thinking, and practice of problem-solving and out-of-the-box thinking types of activities were sprinkled throughout the day, and throughout the week. We did about 5-10 minutes each morning (1-2 pages) together from some critical thinking or logic puzzle workbook as a brain warm-up and part of our morning together time. I also included 2-4 pages of a variety of puzzle types as part of the daily "seatwork" when DSs were young elementary ages. We also did logic types of board games (along with other education fun things for various subjects) on our Friday fun days. When they were older elementary ages, logic computer games were included.

 

In middle school (grades 7/8), the goal was helping to develop logical thinking and ability, make connections, see cause/effct, and learn how to analyze. We continued with the morning "warm-ups", logic games as part of our weekly family game night, and worked through Fallacy Detective and Thinking Toolbox. We also started discussing movies and literature as a very gentle intro to analysis. We started some gentle Worldview materials to begin thinking through choice/consequence, and logical outcomes of ways of thinking.

 

In high school, the goal was analysis of literature, deductive reasoning in science, and understanding the underlying choices and consequences in different philosophical views, religions, and worldviews. In Geometry, we chose to do a proof-based program that required logical thinking to develop the proofs. DSs did Formal Logic with DH leading them through his old college textbook one year. We also did some formal Worldviews study and Comparative Religions study. We did a LOT of discussion of Movies, Literature, History, Worldview, Religion, and Philosophy throughout high school.

 

 

There are a lot of activities that help develop logic and the critical thinking skills used in logic and analysis:

 

- logic puzzles

- critical thinking puzzles/activities

- strategy games

- Socratic-method questions / analysis questions when studying Literature, History and Science (this past thread has examples of what that looked like: How valuable are Socratic discussions)

- informally discussing the "why" and "how" of movies, politics/current events, and of everyday life: "why did he make that choice, and what might the consequences be?" ... "how might that event effect the rest of the region?" ... "what do you think her reasoning for that might be?"

- ask questions that encourage the student to:

*ask "why"

* understand sequence of events

* see/describe similarities/differences

* make connections

* look for cause and effect

* predict/guess what WILL happen, based on what has already happened

 

 

Below are some Logic and Critical Thinking resources to choose from; we used quite a few of these. And don't forget to check out Critical Thinking Press selections -- especially things like the specific math logic books, and Reading Detective. Enjoy your Logic adventures! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

critical thinking:

- Tin Man press thinking workbooks

- Puzzlemania series (gr. 1-5) -- best of Highlights magazine variety of puzzles (not just the maze books)

- Mindbenders

- Perplexors (like Mendbenders)

- Dr. Funster Think-A-Minutes (gr. 3-6)

- Dr. Funster's Creative Thinking Puzzlers (gr. 3-6)

- Critical Thinking Activities in Pattern, Image, Logic (gr. 1-3) -- by Seymour

- Critical Thinking Activities in Pattern, Image, Logic (gr. 4-6) -- by Seymour

 

logic:

- Primarily Logic (gr. 2-4)

- Dandylion Logic series:

1. Logic Countdown = gr. 3-4

2. Logic Liftoff = gr. 4-5

3. Orbiting with Logic = gr. 5-7

- Logic Safari series (book 2 = gr. 3-4; book 3 = gr. 5-6)

- Connections series (by grade level)

 

printable puzzle pages:

- crosswords, word jumbles, anagrams

- codes, cryptograms

- sudoku puzzles

- ken-ken puzzles

 

software:

- Logic Journey of the Zoombinis (by grade level)

- Revenge of the Logic Spiders (by grade level)

- Crazy Machines series (gr. 3+)

- The Incredible Machine: Even More Contraptions (gr. 3+)

- Operation: Neptune (gr. 3-6)

- Mission: T.H.I.N.K. (gr. 2-6)

 

games:

- Set

- Duo

- Secret Door

- Blokus

- Scan (old Parker Brothers game, usually available on ebay)

- Clue

- Mastermind

- Amazing Labrynth

- 221 B. Baker Street

- Checkers

- Chess

- Boggle

- Scrabble

- Quarto

- Checkers

- Chess

- Boggle

- Scrabble

- Quarto

- Tetrus

- other strategy computer/board games

 

solo logic activities:

- Logix

- Scramble Squares

- Tangrams

- Rush Hour Junior

 

mystery/detective books -- solving "whodunnits":

- Jigsaw Jones series (Prellar) -- gr. 3

- Third Grade Detectives series (Adler) -- gr. 3

- Cam Jensen series (Adler) -- gr. 3

- Encyclopedia Brown series (Sobol)

- Roman Mysteries series (Lawrence)

- Samurai mysteries (Hoobler)

- Nancy Drew series (Keene)

- Hardy Boys series (Dixon)

- minute mystery books by Conrad, Sobol, Sukach, Obriest, and others

[julikins]

Thank you, ladies, for your help and your great list, Lori D. I guess I have exposed the kids to logic, without even knowing it, through the games we play. Many that we play regularly as a family were on your list. And I am buying Reading Detective for 3rd grader this next year. So, I'm going to start researching where to start with 6th grader and perhaps get some fun workbook logic things for 3rd grade DS. Thanks!