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Can somebody explain why Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar is alkalizing and not


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#1 MJN

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 11:07 PM

acidic. I have been using this for about a month to help with dissolving kidney stones. A friend of mine questioned me about it the other day and honestly, I couldn't tell her why it wasn't acidic. I just know that from what I've read, it helps to alkalize the body.

Thanks!

Molly

#2 MariannNOVA

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:37 AM

Hi, Molly: This article below may help - here is the link as there is more good info there. I do know that my daughter uses BACV and we have a bottle in our fridge at home as well. :001_smile:http://www.earthclin...l#Question_2404



ACV'S ACIDITY VS ALKALINITY
11/09/2008: Val from Woodland Park, CO writes: "I have started the ACV/honey regimen as suggested by Dr. Jarvis in his book "Arthritis & Folk Medicine." It makes sense to me that this might help with the calcification in my joints. But my frustration is that I've read on some websites (including this one) that ACV is alkaline, when Dr. Jarvis's main idea is that it is ACIDIC, which helps return the calcium to solution & keeps the body acidic, keeping pathogens from growing. It's very confusing, especially since most of the websites where I've read ACV is alkaline also talk about Dr. Jarvis & his book! It's like they quote him & recommend his theories, but haven't read the book! I DON'T GET IT! Can you explain this?"

11/09/2008: Ted from Bangkok, Thailand replies: "Dear Val:
Generally speaking, all you need is a pH meter and just measure urine pH and saliva pH. Usually ACV will cause the urine pH to be acid after taking this a couple of hours, usually upon the first or second urination after drinking apple cider vinegar, thereafter the next day it tends to become more alkaline from the minerals provided in the apple cider vinegar, hence the controversy.

This is true of both ascorbic acid vitamin C, citric acid, vinegar and apple cider vinegar. Take a point in case of distilled water, where a freshly opened bottle of this pH is 7, but if I drink them, the urine pH becomes acid because the distilled water lacks the buffering capacity.

Apple cider vinegar is an interesting one, a majority of mineral in nature tends to exist more on the left side of the periodic table, then processed foods, where these tend to be on the right hand side of the periodic table, and hence acid forming. The two left handed side of the minerals are alkaline and alkaline earth minerals, while processed foods are bleached and contains chlorine, bromine, fluorine, for example.

A case in point also is that this also depends on how high the body's calcium levels are. The apple cider vinegar are generally acidic in nature initially anyway and tends to react with the calcium in the blood and reduces this. However, vinegar isn't as effectively used to remove calcium from the blood if I compare this against disodium EDTA, tetrasodium EDTA, citric acid and sodium citrate, which has a greater capacity to chelate out the calcium. The chelation effects does not require acidity to remove the calcium, it requires the charges of the mineral to be attached to them and hence calcium in the blood are reduced that way. This is why blood banks add sodium citrate, or even disodium EDTA for example to prevent blood from clotting when you prepare the blood for storage. Blood tends clot and hence calcium has to be removed or the patients died of a stroke or other conditions during blood transfusion as the blood clotting tends to occur during storage and increases the risk to the blood recipient.

The confusion also exists on apple cider vinegar regarding "calcium removal" when you desire to remove "calcification of the joints". Sometimes bones tend to fuse as a bacteria eats up the cartilage, or a person suffers from fluoride poisoning (common occurance in fluoridated water as it accumulates over the lifetime) and the joints calcifified or a person suffers from magnesium deficiency, so bone formation doesn't occur so a "calcification of the joints occur".

Certain bacteria that exists in cartilage can eat up the cartilage, causing the two bones to fuse somewhat and people get the impression of "cacification" when infact cartilage is being eaten up and bone swells from excess wear as there is no cartilage between the joints to protect it.

A fungus like bacteria grows inside the bones, especially on the inside of the bones near the joints as blood can't reach where the ends of the bones meets since bone thickness is high and makes it ideal for them to growh. When they grow it eats up the bones and it causes a swelling of the bones. It appears as bone spurs in the foot because circulation there is very far from the extremities, but also occurs between the joints where circulation there are also less accessiable.


As an issue is why do we really need to acidify or blood to remove the calcium since a majority of people with joint conditions metabolically acidosis anyway. When metabolic acidosis exists, blood calcium rises and tends to accumulate and calcify in low blood circulation, and calcium is hence deposited. So the cause is really metabolic acidosis anyway. So the issue appears to be how do we remove calcium from the tissue and alkaline pH, not how we can create more metabolic acidosis to remove the calcium. It's not that apple cider vinegar is the problem. It contains certain chelation properties that removes calcium, even at alkaline dose. This means an apple cider vinegar with baking soda does have properties on calcium chelation as opposed to acid in removal, by way of acetate (an alkaline form) instead of acetic. Malates instead of malic acid, and citrates instead of citric acid. An example, I can cause most land animals to have stones if only fruits was given in their diet, not because fruits are lacking in calcium, but because it is the citric acid, or an alkaline form of citrates are well known calcium chelators anyway, but not necessarily remove calcium from the bones, but mostly from tissues, and joints because these areas has greater blood flow (with citrates) then the bone itself. The bone itself is much more susceptible to metabolic acidosis because the entire bone structure is bathed in blood fluids, not necessarily the circulation and hence are more effected by blood pH and metabolic acidosis then their blood flow. Hence it is why blood banks used citrates or sodium citrate.

In general, using baking soda and lemon juice remedy or baking soda and lime juice has high citrates from the reaction between baking soda and citric acid and may make better caclium removal from soft and semi hard tissues such as muscles and joint. Apple cider vinegar owes somewhat similar abilities from their malates and acetates, rather then teh acid itself. Its the chelation issue.

So if I want to treat bones, the remedy is likely to be potassium citrate, sodium citrate, baking soda, borax, magnesium, xylitol and perhaps taurine (to prevent sugar from reducing the immune system which leads to a bone condition). Citrates chelates out the calcium, without harming the blood pH. A blood pH off by just 0.5 is enough to kill a person. If calcification is indeed a serious one, then I might consider disodium EDTA. This is why bicarbonates and importance of maintaining a buffer is so elaborate in human physiology.

And I found this info as well. Link here: http://hubpages.com/...VinegarBenefits
Many alternative practitioners are proponents of the alkaline-acid theory. They believe that a diet high in acid-producing foods leads to excessive mucous production, lack of energy, headache and sore throat, allergic reactions, anxiety and various other ailments. The theory behind the alkaline diet is that our blood is slightly alkaline with a pH level between 7.35 and 7.45. Our meals should reflect this pH level and also be slightly alkaline. The typical American diet is very acidic and creates many imbalances within our body. Apple Cider vinegar, as part of your daily diet, restores the alkaline-acid balance. Just a couple of teaspoons a day is highly recommended as a daily health tonic. Although these claims have not been backed up by scientific studies, many people swear by the benefits of apple cider vinegar when taken regularly.

Some more links:
http://www.living-fo...negartruth.html
http://www.silvermed...er-vinegar.html
And, "C" would know the answer to this if you ranswer isn't in these articles.


Edited by MariannNOVA, 07 February 2010 - 12:55 AM.
adding info


#3 Blueridge

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:20 PM

Hello Molly! I've done some study on this, too, since it doesn't make sense to me that something so *acidy* is actually the opposite. I'm trying to balance my system by eating lots of dark greens and a lot more raw salads and veggies. This is a nice chart that lists all the alkaline and acid foods. At the bottom of the chart is this statement:
"Note that a food's acid or alkaline-forming tendency in the body has nothing to do with the actual pH of the food itself. For example, lemons are very acidic, however the end-products they produce after digestion and assimilation are very alkaline so lemons are alkaline-forming in the body. Likewise, meat will test alkaline before digestion but it leaves very acidic residue in the body so, like nearly all animal products, meat is very acid-forming."

So, that is the reason...it's all chemistry. :) I'm praying for you!
http://preventdiseas...base_chart.html


#4 mom2abcd

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 04:15 PM

So, that is the reason...it's all chemistry. :) I'm praying for you!
http://preventdiseas...base_chart.html
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What a great chart! And that page links back to a helpful page. It's great to see some inexpensive ways of promoting alkalinity... baking soda, kombucha, stevia...

Thanks!

#5 Liz CA

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 05:09 PM

acidic. I have been using this for about a month to help with dissolving kidney stones. A friend of mine questioned me about it the other day and honestly, I couldn't tell her why it wasn't acidic. I just know that from what I've read, it helps to alkalize the body.

Thanks!

Molly



The acidic/alkaline deal is a little weird with some foods. For instance lemons are working in your body to tip you toward alkaline even though everyone would call a lemon acidic. You really have to research how it works inside your body.


#6 Blueridge

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:19 AM

This site has a good article on the types of water to drink for kidney stones. It mentions drinking 3 quarts of distilled or spring water daily, in addition to teas, etc. So keep well hydrated. They do recommend vinegar near the end of the article as a help.
http://www.insiderre...toryID=20021618


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