Joyful Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 DS 7 is becoming more competitive these days. We really have tried hard not to do things that feed into it, like play scrabble without counting points, play go fish without a winner (we just let everyone finish up matching their cards), and play these "cooperative board games." Somehow, that innate competitiveness is rearing its ugly head. Nowadays, DS 7 will making just about anything into a "race" or competition. He'll even race his sister (5) to see who gets upstairs first for bedtime! :confused: What makes it worse is that it drives DD crazy! I keep hearing her cry: it's not a race! it's not a game! it's not about winning! I've tried to explain to DS that life is not about racing, it is not about winning. I've tried to have dh limit the amount of time they spend talking about professional sports and the games,.... Anyone out there that has deal with something like this??!! I could use some advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 (edited) My son was really bad about this when he was younger, and he was a very poor loser (only partly due to his Aspie lack of emotional control in general). I think it's a boy thing. A couple of things helped us. One was that when we play games together, the rule is that the winner has to put the game away. That way the winner gets to feel good about winning, and the rest of the players get to feel good about getting out of clean-up. And if the winner tries to rub it in, the other have the handy, "oh yeah well you have to clean up" response (though I try to discourage ANY statements that begin "oh yeah well"...lol But rubbing in a victory is also discouraged, so at least this way both sides get to fire a shot before Mom shuts 'em all down). Another thing that helped was redirecting his competetiveness so that he was competing against himself, rather than other people. How did you do this time compared to the last time you did x, rather than did you do compared to the other participants. This helped him feel better about a "loss" if it was a personal best, or close to. And it gave him a higher goal to shoot for on things he always "won". We also tried hard to point out good moves, and teach the children to compliment each other on a good move so that there was some positive feedback for everyone throughout the game, and not just for the winner at the end. And we taught scripted phrases for winning and losing a game so that he would have something socially acceptable to say in either situation, preferably two or three options for each, like "Good game", "You almost beat me that time", "Better luck next time", and "Congratulations", "Well done", "Thanks for playing with me". If they know what they CAN say that's ok, then in moments of distress or exhuberation they don't also have to work through the emotion and try to figure out something to say that won't hurt the other guy's feelings (or get them in trouble with Mom). But yeah, it took a long time for him to reign it in and learn to be a good sport in victory and defeat. ETA: I thought of something else also. In my ds's case getting him to not turn things into a game/race seemed constitutionally unrealistic. His brain might explode. It was hardwired into his system and resistance was futile. So I learned to turn it to my advantage by channeling the competition so he was competing against the clock, or against the grown-ups. (His little sis is much younger and at a disadvantage, and also hated to lose in such an unfair matchup. But she enjoyed racing Mom, because I often let her win and then she felt included too.) Examples: If I finish my sandwich first, I win. If you finish first you win. Loser has to clear the table. (He would dawdle at meals and it drove me nuts. I didn't actually mind clearing the table, I just wanted him to EAT already, so either outcome was a win for me.) If both kids are in bed when I come up to turn off the light, you get hugs and kisses and tucking in; if either child is not in bed, nobody gets tucked, I just put you in bed and turn off the light--this is a team effort and you ARE allowed to help your sister (hint, hint). I'm putting a string down the middle of the family room; you work on that side, I'll work on this side, sis can choose which team to join. Let's see who can get it tidied up first. That sort of thing. Competetiveness can actually be useful if channeled properly. It got me enthusiastic participation in activities he would normally have pitched a fit to get out of. But I also think that age and maturity do take the edge off a bit, so hang in there. Edited March 25, 2009 by MamaSheep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktkcb Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Oh yeah baby.....I know what you're going through. My youngest ds all the way. Unfortunately middle dd is also competitive. We work on it a LOT, but sometimes you have to pick your battles. My youngest is now 12.5 and middle dd is almost 16, and they *still* (banging head repeatedly against wall) race to the car, front door of house, up the stairs, ...and on and on.... while I dutifully whine in the background "It is *NOT!!!!* a race!! What *IS* it with you people!!!". We work constantly on encouraging, loving, helping, not competing with each other etc.. In your case, with a younger dd, I would consistently make him do over *every* time it comes up. Racing up the stairs? Oops, come back down here and do it again slowly! Followed by "It was wrong for me to make xyz into a race...will you forgive me?" Make him practice saying "ladies first!" and holding the door for his sister whenever they are coming home, or getting in the car, or wherever. Maybe make a chart for "good losing" to reward for losing gracefully a certain number of times. Have him do a chore for his sister every time he decides to make something a competition with her. IOW, be creative and consistent. Be proactive in situations where you know he is liable to do this stuff....I've frequently had to have my ds, or dd walk behind me on the way to the car, door, whatever, so that they physically cannot race. Meaning as we are leaving "wherever", I'll immediately say "ds, you need to walk behind me please....do NOT get ahead of me!". Or, in your case, maybe require him to physically follow his sister. I say all of this in a true spirit of empathy, believe me. As I said mine are almost 13 and 16, and it is still a struggle sometimes. I know. You didn't want to hear that :o). Kayleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Well. Sometimes it is. Getting a job or getting into college are definitely about winning. I think in this day and age too little of the competitive spirit is hindering. You won't be able to squash it, so you'll have to find appropriate places for him to use it. Competitive sport, perhaps? I know in the SCA, the tournaments praise chivalry just as much as winning, so perhaps look for something like that? I'd allow games that allow winning, but also invest in some games where there is no winner. To a kid, there's a difference between Mum saying there's no winners, and the rule sheet saying there is no winners, kwim? Hopefully someone has some examples of games, 'coz I don't, I've just heard of others talking about them. I'd also encourage him to race himself instead of racing his sister, and remind her that she doesn't have to care if he wins if she wasn't trying to race. You might have to be careful that that doesn't lapse into poor sportsmanship or an excuse never to try, though. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktkcb Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Oh yeah, and ds has been a board game nut his whole stinkin' life. Fortunately he often doesn't mind playing alone, but group stuff is occasionally very challenging, and fraught with peril. Playing a board game with his sister's is about a 50-50 proposition. Occasionally it will go well, often it won't. Getting better a little over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mktkcb Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 ITA with this....kids need legitimate venues for competition, and they often learn good lessons about handling themselves in the process. My ds does piano, Taekwondo, and theater to fill this need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 We were dealing with this last night. My 8yo does this to her 6yo brother frequently. He was just running home from a walk around the block last night and she couldn't take it so she took off (she's way fast) just to beat him to the house. He wasn't racing, but still took it hard. Ugh. My issue is when a child uses their age and skill to dominate a *younger* sibling. I tell them if they are that good then they should challenge their older bro/sis. To do it to the younger sibling is a bit like bullying- emotionally bullying. I agree with Rosie about encouraging competition. We don't want to squash this child's competitive nature. We want to help her learn how to harness it. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It seems like it might be easier to teacher her to cope better than to try to drastically change his competitiveness. I would certainly encourage/require him to tone it down at times, but I also would teach her that she can simply say, "I am not racing" or whatever, and walk where she was walking without getting upset. Another thing that worked when we had a brief spell of this with our twin boys was the policy that "he who would be first must be last" so the kid that was pushing to be first to the car or first to bathe or first to choose which colored cup he wanted had to go last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battlemaiden Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It seems like it might be easier to teacher her to cope better than to try to drastically change his competitiveness. I would certainly encourage/require him to tone it down at times, but I also would teach her that she can simply say, "I am not racing" or whatever, and walk where she was walking without getting upset. Easier said than done I believe. It is the complete helplessness and harrassing they feel when someone bigger, stronger, smarter, etc. always needs-and usually is- to be first, that causes the frustrated crying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieathome Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Teaching dd to cope seems the way to go. Both kids should be allowed to be who they are. Your son enjoys victory, and I don't see anything wrong with that unless he makes it a point to belittle the losers. Your daughter enjoys different things and she can express her joys over those things in her way. When your daughter cries, she is trying to shut down his "way." She is going to have to learn to co-exist with many different "ways" and she will in turn be allwed to express herself in her "way". We need to teach and model the flexibility that allows for many different kinds of personalities to live side by side without one person having to get a personality transplant, unless that one person is overtly mean or rude. She can also learn to set boundaries that show her brother how she does not wish to be treated. Like Danestress said, her boundary could be "I am not racing." When he is celebrating a victory, she could say "Congratulations! Good Game." Is there any chance that your daughter is sensing some disapproval when you try to tone down your son's love of winning? She could be working the situation to her advantage to be viewed as the "good one" in your eyes. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Mm. Perhaps you can encourage him to compete with you, and he'll be too busy doing that to compete with his sister. That way she doesn't risk falling into the trap of not trying or "I'm not playing anymore." You can race to the car, can't you? :P Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyful Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks for sharing about your kids and what they do! It helps to know that other kids do this too. It's looks like I'll be needing to talk to both DS and DD more about this.... Yeah, she's bothered by the way he beams about "winning" even when she isn't really racing against him. And she's frustrated that so many little things get turned into competitions when she doesn't want to be part of it. I can understand how it can be tiring... In addition to talking to DS about respecting his sister's wishes not to "race" and about not gloating, I like the suggestion of looking for something to "channel" DS's competitiveness more constructively. I read the book Siblings Without Rivalry a while ago, and really appreciate the practical things that the authors talk about. And as a whole, the kids get along great. So I don't know. Is this competitiveness an expression of rivalry? or that he likes to win? or that he does it because he knows it bothers her? I hope I can tease it out from talking to him more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Easier said than done I believe. It is the complete helplessness and harrassing they feel when someone bigger, stronger, smarter, etc. always needs-and usually is- to be first, that causes the frustrated crying. But I am the younger sister, so I do think I had to do exactly this. At some point, a younger sibling has to give up crying and complaining in order to get Mom and Dad to change the older sibling. She might actually feel more powerful in the long run if she could figure out (with your help) how to cope with it without the emotionalism. I'm not saying that parents shouldn't also work on the competitive one. I just think that this is probably something she needs some coaching on too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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