Latin question-dative case??

[whitestavern]

Can someone help me with this translation:

 

Puellae poetae fabulas narrant.

 

We learned the dative case (ending in ae) identifies the indirect object. I know the answer to the above is "The girls are telling stories to the poets". My question is, how do you know the girls are telling the stories to the poets versus the poets telling the stories to the girls? :confused: They both have the ae ending. Any help would be appreciated! TIA!

[Plaid Dad]

It's "the girls are telling stories to the poet (singular)." If there were more than one poet, the form would be "poetis."

 

Once you recognize that "poetae" is singular, you know it can't be the subject because it doesn't agree with the plural verb. The only possible subject is "puellae." Hope that helps!

[whitestavern]

Thanks so much Plaid Dad!! :hurray:

 

I just looked in our lesson book and realized that the next lesson covers the plural form of the dative case, "-is".

[mazakaal]

It's "the girls are telling stories to the poet (singular)." If there were more than one poet, the form would be "poetis."

 

Once you recognize that "poetae" is singular, you know it can't be the subject because it doesn't agree with the plural verb. The only possible subject is "puellae." Hope that helps!

 

But couldn't it be the poets telling the stories to the singular girl in the dative singular?

[Plaid Dad]

It's possible, yes, but normal Latin word order places the subject first. So if this is just a practice sentence, out of context, I would assume the first word to be the subject. If puellae were in the dative case, its placement would make the sentence read something like "It's to the girl [and not to anyone else] that the poets are telling stories." So it's possible, but unlikely.

[Dee in MI]

But how do we know it isn't genitive? The daughters of the poet?

[cajun.classical]

But how do we know it isn't genitive?

 

 

I was wondering this too. How do we know that it's dative and not genitive singular. "The girls are telling the stories of the poet."

[nmoira]

I was wondering this too. How do we know that it's dative and not genitive singular. "The girls are telling the stories of the poet."

 

"The girls are telling the stories of the poet," would more likely be written:

 

Puellae fabulas poetae narrant.

 

As "poetae" would be modifying "fabulas."

[latinteach]

Can someone help me with this translation:

 

Puellae poetae fabulas narrant.

 

We learned the dative case (ending in ae) identifies the indirect object. I know the answer to the above is "The girls are telling stories to the poets". My question is, how do you know the girls are telling the stories to the poets versus the poets telling the stories to the girls? :confused: They both have the ae ending. Any help would be appreciated! TIA!

 

Here are some basic patterns for Latin sentences from Claude Pavur's Latin Teaching Materials site.

 

It really could be that the poets are telling the stories to the girls.

 

Poetae can be nominative plural, genitive singular or dative singular. Same thing goes for puellae. As an isolated practice sentence, Plaid Dad is correct. It's likely to be a Subject-Indirect Object-Direct Object-Verb sentence, which is a really basic Latin sentence pattern.

 

But if you were perhaps asked the question "To whom are the poets telling the stories?" then "the girl (dative singular)" might be placed at the beginning of the sentence in your answer because you want to emphasize that it is to the girl that the poets are telling the stories.

 

"A Student's Latin Grammar" (Cambridge) has a nice summary of the most typical basic patterns for short sentences. You'll typically see Nominative/Verb; Nominative/Accusative/Verb; Nominative/Dative/Accusative/Verb. They give examples of each, then show variations thereof and explain why the writer might change the order. But there are variations of these, as in Claude Pavur's chart demonstrating syntactical flexibility. When the words change order, then it's generally to make emphasis. So it ultimately depends on the context of the sentence. You're likely to go with the most typical word order, but if this sentence were in a paragraph, you'd have to see what makes the most sense based upon its context.

 

It's great that you asked this question because it shows that you are demonstrating syntactical flexibility. You recognized that this sentence could mean more than one thing.

Edited February 6, 2009 by latinteach