Too many writing choices

[LauraClark]

I'm having trouble making decisions about my 8th grader in writing. My goals this year are:

-have a solid understanding of how to write an essay

-do some kind of creative writing/poetry that he will enjoy 

I'm a decent writer-received all A's in highschool/college but I really don't enjoy it and struggle to teach it (aka, I need a guide). I have Creative Writer 2 and The Lively Art of Teaching Writing. I think both would meet my goals. But, HOW do I fit them in?? I found a suggested schedule for LAW that makes it a year long curriculum, and, likewise, CW is a year long. I keep looking at things and thinking, how can I squeeze them both in. Any thoughts/advice for me? Should I save LAW for next year? And if so, how do I fit it in to highschool?

[Lori D.]

2 fast, off-the-top-of-my head ideas:

Idea #1
• essay writing -- save LAoW for 9th, and outsource with Lantern English for 8th
- do 3-4 of the 8-week Essay Writing series (so, a total of 24-32 weeks)
- class choices: Essay Basics; Essay Basics Practice; Growing the Essay I; Growing the Essay II; Growing the Essay Fast Track; Growing the Essay Practice
• poetry writing
- do Creative Writer 2 in the weeks ou are not doing Lantern classes (so, a total of 4-12 weeks); finish CW2 in 9th grade
- or, do CW2 in the summers, just for fun on his own time, out of his own interest

Idea #2
8th grade fall semester = do half -- or however much of Lively Art of Writing works for you both, then stop
8th grade spring semester = do half -- or however much of Creative Writer 2 as is enjoyable for DS
9th grade fall semester = finish the Lively Art of Writing
9th grade spring semester = finish Creative Writer 2

 

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

...my 8th grader in writing. My goals this year are:
-have a solid understanding of how to write an essay
-do some kind of creative writing/poetry that he will enjoy 

Good planning -- those are solid and realistic goals.
 

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

I'm a decent writer-received all A's in highschool/college but I really don't enjoy it and struggle to teach it (aka, I need a guide)...

That's why I'd suggest outsourcing -- which would give you more time to assist with 8th grade math and science as needed, and more time for younger children.

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

...I have ...The Lively Art of Teaching Writing. I think both would meet my goals. But, HOW do I fit them in?? I found a suggested schedule for LAW that makes it a year long curriculum, and, likewise, CW is a year long. I keep looking at things and thinking, how can I squeeze them both in. Any thoughts/advice for me? Should I save LAW for next year? And if so, how do I fit it in to highschool?

I have only skimmed through LAoW, and it looks to me like solid high school level, or advanced 8th grade level, if that helps.

Also, have you seen the free downloadable pdf files of a student workbook and teacher guide made by WMTers @Still Waters and @mjbucks1? Both are linked in this past thread: "Lively Art of Writing formatted workbook and key".

Those might assist you in teaching LAoW -- the workbook may help make it a little bit more independent working, and the teacher guide may give you assistance in teaching to make it less onerous for you.

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

... I have Creative Writer 2 and The Lively Art of Teaching Writing... HOW do I fit them in?? I found a suggested schedule for LAW that makes it a year long curriculum, and, likewise, CW is a year long...how can I squeeze them both in...

Unless your student eats/breathes/sleeps writing and nothing else, and doesn't mind doing 2-3 hours a day of writing... no. You can't squeeze all of TWO one-year long programs into ONE timeslot for 8th grade writing. 😉

Idea #2 above is one way of doing HALF of each program in EACH of 8th and 9th grades.

Remember, when it comes to learning to write, it's a marathon, not a sprint. It's about quality, not quantity. It's absolutely fine to do units of different kinds of writing over the course of a year rather than only one kind of writing (unless the particular student tends to hyper-focus and needs to absolutely master one kind of writing before moving to another kind -- and that is really quite rare).

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

... Should I save LAW for next year? 

That could work well. Enjoy poetry writing in 8th grade as a last fun special-interest study, and wait until 9th grade to start working on more formal types of writing.

2 hours ago, LauraClark said:

... And if so, how do I fit it in to highschool?

Um... just do it in 9th grade? Or spread it out over 9th and 10th grades? Follow the pace of your student, as writing is something that blossoms for each student in their own unique timetable.

Or did you mean... "how do I fit it in because I already have a big stack of programs, or outsourced classes, or special writing programs that I want us to do in high school"...?

 

 

Edited July 27 by Lori D.

[LauraClark]

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

have only skimmed through LAoW, and it looks to me like solid high school level, or advanced 8th grade level, if that helps.

Thank you-that does help. I keep seeing suggestions for using it in 7th grade and feel like maybe we're a little behind.

 

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Also, have you seen the free downloadable pdf files of a student workbook and teacher guide

I have-I've got them saved on my computer 😊

 

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Or did you mean... "how do I fit it in because I already have a big stack of programs, or outsourced classes, or special writing programs that I want us to do in high school"...?

I guess I was hoping to not do any kind of writing program in high school-to have the basics covered in middle school. I was planning to just incorporate writing into other subject areas and work on improving through high school.  Not having a separate writing thing to do seems like such a freeing thing: I know some of his subjects will take up more time and I was hoping we could knock a couple subjects off his list (grammar being the other subject I don't plan to do in high school). Maybe this is not feasible, though? I don't want to totally overwhelm him with a lot of writing (says the mom trying to cram 2 curriculums into 1 year 🤦‍♀️😂). If we do a separate curriculum I would not want to add much writing to our history or science or literature, for example (and then what do I use for output? Just tests?). But if I could incorporate it into those subjects then he would still have plenty of writing, but it wouldn't be a separate thing. Does that make sense? 

[Amoret]

My kids both did LAW in 8th and actually enjoyed it quite a bit. It's dated, but also easy to use and solid. They didn't write all the assigned essays, but they did most of the other work. It was their only formal writing that year, and we did some creative writing together (exercises in The Ode Less Traveled by Fry [pre-read the humor/limerick section!] and Steering the Craft by LeGuin).

Several years ago, someone on the high school board shared a workbook and teacher's guide that they made for LAW (I am attaching the files below). Having everything laid out made it SO much easier to use. I wish I knew who to credit for it because the time and effort they put into it was much appreciated. 

Because this required quite a bit of writing, my kids did things like note-taking in history, "5 Interesting things" each week for their science reading, and creative literature responses -- and lots of conversation. They also wrote a big final essay that was tied to one of their other subjects (using what they learned in LAW, but not exactly the final essay in the book).

 

LivelyArtWorkbook.pdf LivelyArtofWriting Teacher's Guide.pdf

Edited July 27 by Amoret

[Lori D.]

16 minutes ago, Amoret said:

My kids both did LAW in 8th and actually enjoyed it quite a bit. It's dated, but also easy to use and solid. They didn't write all the assigned essays, but they did most of the other work. It was their only formal writing that year, and we did some creative writing together (exercises in The Ode Less Traveled by Fry [pre-read the humor/limerick section!] and Steering the Craft by LeGuin).

Thanks for sharing that great personal experience, @Amoret!

So, there you go, @LauraClark -- looks like 8th grade is a possibility. 😄 
 

16 minutes ago, Amoret said:

Several years ago, someone on the high school board shared a workbook and teacher's guide that they made for LAW ... I wish I knew who to credit for it because the time and effort they put into it was much appreciated. 

That would be @Still Waters and @mjbucks1. And @quark did the formatting and uploading. Both the student and teacher books are still linked in the thread "Lively Art of Writing formatted workbook and key".

[Amoret]

5 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

So, there you go, @LauraClark -- looks like 8th grade is a possibility. 😄 

My kids are both pretty strong writers and had a fairly solid command of the short essay form before we started it. If your DC hasn't written many essays, you might want to spend time working on short essays across different subjects and save it for the next year.

I should have read more closely -- I both would have learned who to credit and noticed that you already have the files.

Edited July 27 by Amoret

[LauraClark]

Thank you @Amoret for your experience-that is helpful! 

[Lori D.]

22 minutes ago, Amoret said:

My kids are both pretty strong writers and had a fairly solid command of the short essay form before we started it. If your DC hasn't written many essays, you might want to spend time working on short essays across different subjects and save it for the next year.

I should have read more closely -- I both would have learned who to credit and noticed that you already have the files.

Great to hear details of your experience with LAoW, plus details of what your DC's level and experience were when using it.

And -- lol -- no problem! That was super nice of you to actually link the files --so much easier than having to go to the thread to the link to the google site. 😄 Thank YOU for providing the files!

[Lori D.]

3 hours ago, LauraClark said:

...I guess I was hoping to not do any kind of writing program in high school-to have the basics covered in middle school. I was planning to just incorporate writing into other subject areas and work on improving through high school.  Not having a separate writing thing to do seems like such a freeing thing: I know some of his subjects will take up more time and I was hoping we could knock a couple subjects off his list (grammar being the other subject I don't plan to do in high school). Maybe this is not feasible, though? I don't want to totally overwhelm him with a lot of writing (says the mom trying to cram 2 curriculums into 1 year 🤦‍♀️😂). If we do a separate curriculum I would not want to add much writing to our history or science or literature, for example (and then what do I use for output? Just tests?). But if I could incorporate it into those subjects then he would still have plenty of writing, but it wouldn't be a separate thing. Does that make sense? 

Yes, that makes sense.

I would just encourage you to go at your DS's pace, both in learning and practicing longer pieces of writing, as well as in how much across-the-curriculum writing you do. That might look like using some (or even all) of a writing program in 8th grade, but also into 9th grade. Also, that can include subbing out some of the writing assignments in the program for topics from your specific subjects. Which makes it easier for the writing and other subjects to be integrated.

So, a slower, but more supported, transition into learning/practicing essay writing and other types of longer pieces of writing as you move from middle to high school level of work. It won't be a "light switch" flip, so you don't have to stress about getting essay writing down completely and perfectly by the end of 8th grade.

Lots of types of essays throughout the high school years, each with its own twist on structure and how you go about supporting your thesis:
- comparison
- cause/effect
- problem/solution
- literary analysis (with a lot of "sub" types of essays: character analysis, trace a theme, explain a key quotation, discuss literary element(s), etc.)
- definition essay
- process ("how to") paper
- personal narrative essay
- college admission / scholarship application essay
- timed ACT test essay (SAT no longer contains an essay element) -- which is now an essay that is NOT YOU making a claim and supporting it, but is now about writing and explaining how a piece of writing that is provided on the test goes about making a claim and supporting it

Also note that NOT all of the writing will be essays, so some of these might need to be taught as a quick unit:
- research papers with citations in MLA / APA style format (History, Science)
- lab reports (Science)
- presentations with slideshow (any subject)
- real life writing -- resume/cover letter, business letters/emails, memos, reports, etc.

And tests/quizzes or writing are not the only ways of having "output" -- output is meant to show learning or mastery of a topic, so many ways to do that:
- discussion -- formal and informal
- presentation -- with or without a powerpoint or physical element
- hands-on project or activity
- participation in a history recreation event
- labs / lab reports
- performance -- usually fine arts, such as music or theater
- teaching/mentoring another person on a topic
- creative visual/writing output on a topic -- make a video, design a brochure or poster, journal entries, note booking, blog entries, etc.

BEST of luck in finding your way through that transition of middle/high school writing, but also all other subjects as well! 

Edited July 27 by Lori D.

[LauraClark]

Thank you thank you @Lori D.! What a great list of things for me to think through and some very good encouragement to not be stressed about getting it all done this year.