Planning ahead for the "big envelope"

[MotherLode]

Hey there...this is a great board! Found it by accident when looking for some info on rounding out our Latin program...

 

My children are in grade school, one about to start HS, and I'm planning it out for college entrance exams, etc.

 

They both do very well in all subjects. We've used R&S for nearly everything, with Christ Centered Curriculum for math followed with Professor B (highly recommend!). The older one (7th gr) is doing Algebra 1 now, the younger (3rd) will be starting Alg 1 in 5th or 6th grade (but will take it slower than the older one). By the time they are done with high school, they will have Geometry, Alg 2 and Calc/Trig.

 

My 7th gr is doing 9th gr general science (Apologia), and will start 10th gr physical science with 8th grade. The younger will follow this pattern. It allows them to do 2 of the AP courses while still in gr 11 & 12.

 

They both are considering pharmacy. I've looked at several schools in the West, and noticed several things...admissions are getting trickier! Several schools won't allow for transfer students (especially if they have an accellerated program that combines the bachelors through doctorate degrees). And some schools have two rates - a lower one if you have no college experience and a higher one is you are transferring credits! When it comes to supplementing their HS work with community college and advanced placement, how are you treating it, and how are admissions departments responding? Are there guidelines somewhere?

 

As home schooling parents, do we mention it as "what they've done" or as "transferring credit?"

 

ML

Edited December 27, 2008 by MotherLode

[Sandy in Indy]

I'm not sure exactly what it is you mean by "what they've done or transferring credit"...but my ds was just accepted to a straight-through pharmacy program. Here's what we were told:

 

-Plan on at least 5 sciences in the high school years, preferably lab sciences. In our case, we did Biology, Chemistry, Adv. Chemistry (AP), Adv. Biology and Physics

 

-Plan on math through at least pre-calculus. Calculus is preferable.

 

-Entrance to pharmacy programs is tough. There's more leeway in getting into a pre-phar program that requires a second application to the professional part of the program. Schools in our area are processing 1,000 applications for the 165 or so spots that are available. Top scores on the SAT/ACT are essential as are superior grades.

 

-A straight-through program is preferable IMHO. Once accepted, you're in for the six years as long as you keep the required grades and pass the PCAT test (which all pharmacy students must take and pass for the professional program).

 

My son will be the 4th generation in my family to enter pharmacy. It's a great profession and in great demand. The $$ are wonderful! It's a great profession for a woman--you can work part-time and pull in good money.

 

HTH--Sandy

[MotherLode]

Thanks for the details! Congrats on your son's acceptance! I strongly believe there is a lot of stability in jobs that fill the human need catagory - health related fields rank high with the baby boomers reaching their upper years!

 

I like the idea of straight-through programs, too. (Anything to help reduce the costs!) And I really like a certain LA school...but we might not live here when college rolls around.

 

What science did you use? What other preparation did you use? Anything special for the SAT?

 

We're planning on these Apologia courses - General Science, Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Adv Biology, and Adv Chemistry. With Prof B math, we'll be doing 3 years of Algebra (the last year is equivalent to freshman college algebra), geometry, calc/trig. I hope we have those basics covered! And, when they are done with Latin vocab and grammar, moving primarily to translations, I'll supplement with medical & pharmalogical terminology.

 

As for your question....here's what I mean by "what they've done or transferring credit" is this...here is SoCal a lot of students (home schooled and exceptional government schooled) take courses in high school at the community colleges. We have a lot of CCs here and they are considerably cheaper than the universities.

 

If the university has a "no transfer students" rule, and they are an incoming matriculating freshman with CC credits from their high-school days, have they violated the rule? Are the high-school classes taken at the CC transferrable to the new school? Or are they simply considered high-school classes?

 

If a home-school student takes an AP course, have they violated the "no transfer" rule? I know that within a chosen major's department they often don't accept AP courses.

 

For instance, if you had chosen Biology as your college major, they probably won't accept your high school AP Biology course. I suppose they want to be sure your biology understanding is very thorough, although the student who has passed AP Bio should find the university class a lot easier!

 

So I don't know what to plan on...telling them about 'early college classes' or not telling them and paying for more classes!

 

ML

[Pamela H in Texas]

So I don't know what to plan on...telling them about 'early college classes' or not telling them and paying for more classes!

 

You almost definitely HAVE to tell them about college courses taken; but they will, it sounds from your post, decide "that's all well and good but you'll have to do them again at our university." But most colleges will ask for all prior college work. They may not accept the credits, but they still want to know.

[NCMom]

 

If the university has a "no transfer students" rule, and they are an incoming matriculating freshman with CC credits from their high-school days, have they violated the rule? Are the high-school classes taken at the CC transferrable to the new school? Or are they simply considered high-school classes?

ML

 

Usually, a transfer student is one who was matriculated in another college. This person would be bringing in a lot more than a few CC courses and AP scores. You do HAVE to report CC credits to the school. The best thing to do would be to ask at the school you are considering.

 

Also, Apologia General and Physical are 7th and 8th grade levels. Check w/ your school because Physical Science isn't even considered a high school level course at some colleges anymore.

 

Though we use Apologia for some classes, I'm not giving credit for Bio and Adv Bio separately because the info covered in the second book is typically covered in the intro Bio class in high school. I don't consider Anatomy and Phys "advanced bio" but that's just me. If you want to get through the Bio or Chem SAT II and I would guess the AP test?? you have to have both Apologia books done, which is why I've chosen to do it that way. My middle dd's sciences on her transcript will be Bio, Chem, Physics, her choice or Environmental Science (this is a weird NC thingy) and her choice of something from the local CC.

 

My point, should there ever be one ;), is that if using Apologia (or any other program) you might want to make sure that what you use covers what the child needs for the test, etc. and is comparable to what the students at the local schools are doing, especially if you are going into a tougher program.

 

I recommend that you start reading through the older posts on this board as they contain a wealth of information from some really together people!

 

Georgia

[Sandy in Indy]

We were told that kids could take as many college courses as they wanted BEFORE high school graduation. Those courses may or may not be granted credit by the university attended after high school. If you have more than 11 credits after high school graduation, you are considered a transfer student. That may or may not be a factor. I believe in most straight-through pharmacy programs you cannot be a transfer student.

 

In our case, ds is taking Spanish at the local cc and will have 8 transferable credits from that. He's also taking a 4 hour Calculus class this spring. Since the school he'll attend next fall requires a 5 hour Calculus class, those 4 hours may be counted as an elective or may not transfer at all. Either way, I'm OK with that.

 

You will need to disclose any college-level courses that have been taken during high school. Not doing so will invalidate the regular college application.

 

Cost--a straight-through program doesn't really change the cost. Pharmacy is six years either way. In both situations, the first two years are pre-pharmacy and the last four are pharmacy. The big difference is not having to re-apply to be accepted to the last four professional years. There are two pharmacy schools in IN--one is Purdue (where you must re-apply) and the other is Butler (straight-through). Butler actually costs at least twice as much to attend because it's a private school. BUT, when you're in, you're in! At Purdue, you have to apply with the other 999 folks and hope that you get one of the 165 spots. For us, it's worth the peace of mind not to have to go through that. (And we're in a position that we'll get grants and aid.)

 

We used Apologia for all our science courses. Most of them he did in a co-op situation and the teachers added in some extra stuff. The Adv. Chem teacher set it up to be an AP class and helped the students prepare for the AP test. DS passed it. Frankly, I wasn't all that concerned with what the public school did or didn't cover. (Our ps system is...well...bad, terrible, horrible...not worth my consideration!)

[Jenn in CA]

My understanding about "no transfer students" rules in general, is simply that they won't accept other college classes for credit. You can take whatever you want, they just won't accept the credits and your student will be starting over in their program.

 

BTW we use Prof B too! Are you using the Prof B Algebra, or something else, and what do you plan to do for the other math classes?

 

My oldest 2 (14 & 15) switched to Saxon halfway through Prof B Book 2. They're currently in Adv. Math (15yo) and Alg 2 (14yo) My 3rd (age 9) is about 2/3 through Book 3, but I'm open to her staying with Prof B for Algebra.

Edited December 27, 2008 by Jenn in CA
add something

[MotherLode]

Hi Georgia,

 

Also, Apologia General and Physical are 7th and 8th grade levels. Check w/ your school because Physical Science isn't even considered a high school level course at some colleges anymore.

 

Yes, I caught that after I posted it. My bad.

 

I recommend that you start reading through the older posts on this board as they contain a wealth of information from some really together people!

 

Yes, I caught that last night too. Its facinating to see what others have done!

 

ML

 

Oh! I've become a Larvae!

[MotherLode]

We were told that kids could take as many college courses as they wanted BEFORE high school graduation. Those courses may or may not be granted credit by the university attended after high school. If you have more than 11 credits after high school graduation, you are considered a transfer student. That may or may not be a factor. I believe in most straight-through pharmacy programs you cannot be a transfer student.

 

...Frankly, I wasn't all that concerned with what the public school did or didn't cover. (Our ps system is...well...bad, terrible, horrible...not worth my consideration!)

 

Thank you Sandy for the details. It's very helpful. I knew of Purdue's program, but not of Butler (I'm originally from OH). I would love to see them attend USC (straight-through), and acceptance is tough. Not to mention cost! The other local alternate is a school that does nothing but medical related degrees ~ and then they lose out on the width of elective offerings at a university.

 

Congrats again on your son!

[MotherLode]

My understanding about "no transfer students" rules in general, is simply that they won't accept other college classes for credit. You can take whatever you want, they just won't accept the credits and your student will be starting over in their program.

 

BTW we use Prof B too! Are you using the Prof B Algebra, or something else, and what do you plan to do for the other math classes?

 

My oldest 2 (14 & 15) switched to Saxon halfway through Prof B Book 2. They're currently in Adv. Math (15yo) and Alg 2 (14yo) My 3rd (age 9) is about 2/3 through Book 3, but I'm open to her staying with Prof B for Algebra.

 

Hi Jenn ~ I'm in SoCal...how about you?

 

The plan is for Prof B's 3 books of Algebra. My oldest did the first book in less than the school year. Sounds impressive, but it was erred planning on my part ~ I had far more lessons planned out than the book had, and when she was 2/3rd through it, but only half way through the year, she spoke up!

 

I spoke with Mr. Barrett at length, and he explained how the three books are best used with each grade. Since he doesn't have one (yet) we're going to use a geometry that teaches postulates and theorums to prove the logic behind the answer (isn't that the point of geometry ~ teaching reasoning skills?). I'm told by my more experience home-school moms most modern geometry courses have removed it, making it just a bunch of memorization...and pointless, boring and painful. Accelerated Learning's (ACE PACES) workbooks do use postulates and theorums, or your can look for old government school textbooks and figure out the answers! I picked up ACE last summer at the hs convention.

 

I do need to figure out what to do for calc and trig...what are you planning on?

 

Do you ever wonder if colleges will recognize your math program? It's so good, and they are learning it so well. I hope the proof is in the pudding - their test scores! LOL

 

ML

[Jenn in CA]

I'm in the Sacramento area but we (dh and I) lived in the Valley and West LA for a while and I lived in San Bernardino during high school!

 

Saxon is working out great for my kids at the upper levels... I don't remember if Prof B Algebra was even available when they were ready for algebra, but I really wanted something self-teaching.

 

For Calculus my kids will take it at the community college (in high school).

 

And yes, the proof is in the test scores! My kids have all done great on math standardized testing... we couldn't be happier with Prof B. I don't worry about what colleges think about Prof B, because they will have taken college math already (at the CC).