Write at Home for a very reluctant writer

[summerreading]

I'd like to hear your experience with WAH for a reluctant writer in high school. I've tried a few different programs with my oldest (stealth dyslexic) and they're just not clicking (IEW, EIW, WriteShop). He says he needs something very explicit and where he does not need to do creative writing, just get it done nonfiction that he has to learn. I need something that is not too intensive for me. I feel like WAH might be my last step, so I'm all ears. 

Thanks

[TarynB]

We used Write At Home for a couple of years and it was a good experience. You might consider signing up your son for one of the 8-week workshops instead of committing to a semester or year, to try it out. The semester and year-long courses are the same content as the workshops; think of them as several continuous workshops strung together. (The details are outlined on the website. Check the syllabus for each class.) Also, that way you can avoid the creative writing sections if you want to, as your DS indicated he does not want to do that. If your son likes one of the shorter classes, you can enroll in more at any time and start the next one when the current one is finished. You can pick and choose to find the level that matches your son's ability.  The WAH workload is not heavy and DS thought the instruction was clear and logical. It was entirely hands-off for me. He consistently got good feedback from his "writing coaches", but I have read here of others who didn't have that experience, although you can ask to be switched to a different writing coach if you want, and switching is apparently no big deal. Having an outside instructor to perform for might make a big difference for your son - it did for mine. Let me know if you have any other questions that I could answer.

Edited June 30, 2019 by TarynB

[summerreading]

7 minutes ago, TarynB said:

We used Write At Home for a couple of years and it was a good experience. You might consider signing up your son for one of the 8-week workshops instead of committing to a semester or year, to try it out. The semester and year-long courses are the same content as the workshops; think of them as several continuous workshops strung together. (The details are outlined on the website. Check the syllabus for each class.) Also, that way you can avoid the creative writing sections if you want to, as your DS indicated he does not want to do that. If your son likes one of the shorter classes, you can enroll in more at any time and start the next one when the current one is finished. You can pick and choose to find the level that matches your son's ability.  The WAH workload is not heavy and DS thought the instruction was clear and logical. It was entirely hands-off for me. He consistently got good feedback from his "writing coaches", but I have read here of others who didn't have that experience, although you can ask to be switched to a different writing coach if you want, and switching is apparently no big deal. Having an outside instructor to perform for might make a big difference for your son - it did for mine. Let me know if you have any other questions that I could answer.

Thank you. That's is a good idea to look at the workshops first. I didn't realize they were the same content as the semester classes. 

[mirabillis]

i have a different take on WAH. we are fans of WAH and we are signing up my 2nd dd for WAH workshops for her sophomore year... but with that said, i don't feel WAH provides any explicit writing instruction. you need to come into it knowing the basics of essay writing or persuasive writing or even literary analysis to get the most out of it, imo. we are big fans of IEW, b/c i feel it really teaches them the basics of 'how' to write, then leads them to where they can apply these basics now in their own way. so that's what my oldest did - IEW through SICC-B / Elegant Essay - then we jumped into WAH - took 1/2 semester High School (but that had too much creative writing for my taste). then in his sophomore year, he jumped to workshops - Essay 1, Essay 2 & Literary Analysis. (lit analysis was more of a struggle, as he'd never 'learned' lit analysis before)

the constant feedback loop is great, and if that's the best way for kids to learn how to write, then perhaps there is instruction. just make sure you come into it with something under your belt is my opinion... my ds just finished AP Eng Lang after his WAH experience and while writing is not his forte naturally, he did pull an A and we'll see how he fared on the AP exam this week... and we are enrolling my dd who has just finished IEW through SICC-C in the WAH workshops this coming year too. so it's a great program, just know what it is and what it is not.

[TarynB]

16 hours ago, mirabillis said:

i have a different take on WAH. we are fans of WAH and we are signing up my 2nd dd for WAH workshops for her sophomore year... but with that said, i don't feel WAH provides any explicit writing instruction. you need to come into it knowing the basics of essay writing or persuasive writing or even literary analysis to get the most out of it, imo. we are big fans of IEW, b/c i feel it really teaches them the basics of 'how' to write, then leads them to where they can apply these basics now in their own way. so that's what my oldest did - IEW through SICC-B / Elegant Essay - then we jumped into WAH - took 1/2 semester High School (but that had too much creative writing for my taste). then in his sophomore year, he jumped to workshops - Essay 1, Essay 2 & Literary Analysis. (lit analysis was more of a struggle, as he'd never 'learned' lit analysis before)

the constant feedback loop is great, and if that's the best way for kids to learn how to write, then perhaps there is instruction. just make sure you come into it with something under your belt is my opinion... my ds just finished AP Eng Lang after his WAH experience and while writing is not his forte naturally, he did pull an A and we'll see how he fared on the AP exam this week... and we are enrolling my dd who has just finished IEW through SICC-C in the WAH workshops this coming year too. so it's a great program, just know what it is and what it is not.

 

I absolutely agree some kids may not click with the teaching style and certainly no class is a good fit for everyone. But I'm surprised that you don't think WAH provides explicit instruction. Could you elaborate on that? I didn't save the WAH lessons on my computer, and DS has his laptop with him out of town at the moment, so I can't look on his right now, but I remember seeing downloaded PDFs with instruction for every step of every lesson (A1, A2, A3, B1, B2, B3, etc.) And I know for sure that the literary analysis lesson guide was a PDF that was 34 pages long, because I did save that one and DS still refers to it. It's pretty detailed, with lots of examples and suggested do's and don'ts.

I also totally agree that IEW is not like WAH. DS used IEW in middle school, so I'm familiar with both. WAH is not nearly as rigid and doesn't have the IEW-style rubric details like "use two -ly words in this paragraph" or "start this sentence with X type of word . . . ". I believe a program like IEW has value for some kids, but WAH is definitely not like IEW.

Also worth noting for others who may be interested, there is no live interaction or video component in WAH. The lessons are conveyed by reading PDFs, and then the student and writing coach interact in writing and pass assignments back and forth through a secure online platform (not email but similar).

There used to be samples of the writing lessons on the website - not sure if they are still there but I would guess so. Maybe OP could poke around in those and see if she thinks the style/type of instruction would work for her son.

Edited July 1, 2019 by TarynB

[summerreading]

14 hours ago, mirabillis said:

i have a different take on WAH. we are fans of WAH and we are signing up my 2nd dd for WAH workshops for her sophomore year... but with that said, i don't feel WAH provides any explicit writing instruction. you need to come into it knowing the basics of essay writing or persuasive writing or even literary analysis to get the most out of it, imo. we are big fans of IEW, b/c i feel it really teaches them the basics of 'how' to write, then leads them to where they can apply these basics now in their own way. so that's what my oldest did - IEW through SICC-B / Elegant Essay - then we jumped into WAH - took 1/2 semester High School (but that had too much creative writing for my taste). then in his sophomore year, he jumped to workshops - Essay 1, Essay 2 & Literary Analysis. (lit analysis was more of a struggle, as he'd never 'learned' lit analysis before)

the constant feedback loop is great, and if that's the best way for kids to learn how to write, then perhaps there is instruction. just make sure you come into it with something under your belt is my opinion... my ds just finished AP Eng Lang after his WAH experience and while writing is not his forte naturally, he did pull an A and we'll see how he fared on the AP exam this week... and we are enrolling my dd who has just finished IEW through SICC-C in the WAH workshops this coming year too. so it's a great program, just know what it is and what it is not.

 

Thank you. I think I really needed to read this. 

 

[TarynB]

Since you mentioned other writing programs, and if you don't mind hearing about another option, I can wholeheartedly recommend Logical Communication with Mr. Roy Speed. It was a huge hit for us this past year. It has been the best money we've spent out of 9 years of homeschooling and many online classes. DS will be taking the next course in his writing series (Essay Writing and Appreciation) in the upcoming year. DS decided to do this instead of taking English Comp through dual enrollment because he thoroughly enjoys the live class sessions and knows he will benefit significantly more from the class with Mr. Speed as opposed to taking English Comp 1 and 2 at our local university. Mr. Speed is known here on the forum for his Shakespeare courses, but he's offering writing instruction online now too (his website is hscollegebound.com). He has also taught at a co-op for years and teaches writing to professionals, so he's experienced with writers at a variety of levels. Mr. Speed has spoken with us personally by phone about our son's strengths and areas he can improve on next, and I was impressed by his reaching out to us to do that. I'll paste below my comments from another thread:

Logical Communication with Mr. Roy Speed has been a big hit. It focuses on clear thinking, organizing ideas and arguments, backing up your ideas with evidence, logical flow, and rhetorical devices, all in conjunction with analyzing high-quality essays. The instructor has appropriately high standards and is enthusiastic, the live classroom is well-managed and has interactive discussions, the workload is just right (emphasis on quality, not quantity), and the feedback is individualized (appropriate for a range of abilities), prompt and constructive. DS has taken several composition courses before this, and this one is the best he's had by far. Mr. Speed is known here on the forum for his Shakespeare courses, and he's offering full-year writing courses online now too. He also teaches writing to corporate professionals. DS will be taking his Essay Writing and Appreciation course next year.

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by TarynB

[summerreading]

1 hour ago, TarynB said:

Since you mentioned other writing programs, and if you don't mind hearing about another option, I can wholeheartedly recommend Logical Communication with Mr. Roy Speed. It was a huge hit for us this past year. It has been the best money we've spent out of 9 years of homeschooling and many online classes. DS will be taking the next course in his writing series (Essay Writing and Appreciation) in the upcoming year. DS decided to do this instead of taking English Comp through dual enrollment because he thoroughly enjoys the live class sessions and knows he will benefit significantly more from the class with Mr. Speed as opposed to taking English Comp 1 and 2 at our local university. Mr. Speed is known here on the forum for his Shakespeare courses, but he's offering writing instruction online now too (his website is hscollegebound.com). He has also taught at a co-op for years and teaches writing to professionals, so he's experienced with writers at a variety of levels. Mr. Speed has spoken with us personally by phone about our son's strengths and areas he can improve on next, and I was impressed by his reaching out to us to do that. I'll paste below my comments from another thread:

Logical Communication with Mr. Roy Speed has been a big hit. It focuses on clear thinking, organizing ideas and arguments, backing up your ideas with evidence, logical flow, and rhetorical devices, all in conjunction with analyzing high-quality essays. The instructor has appropriately high standards and is enthusiastic, the live classroom is well-managed and has interactive discussions, the workload is just right (emphasis on quality, not quantity), and the feedback is individualized (appropriate for a range of abilities), prompt and constructive. DS has taken several composition courses before this, and this one is the best he's had by far. Mr. Speed is known here on the forum for his Shakespeare courses, and he's offering full-year writing courses online now too. He also teaches writing to corporate professionals. DS will be taking his Essay Writing and Appreciation course next year.

 

 

Thank you for the recommendation. I agree it does look like a wonderful class that might be a perfect fit. I'm sure it's worth every penny, but I'm in a bit of sticker shock at the moment. The class will, however, have a high spot on my wishlist. 

[mirabillis]

sticker shock to be sure! oh my! i try to keep my outsourced classes in the $500-700 range. we stopped with WHA (wilson hill academy) as classes were getting to the $800-900 range. (though we do take PAH classes which are in the high $700/800 range). we do like roy speed for shakespeare, but $1340 is way too steep.

i asked my ds - and he concurred, there is no extensive instruction. there was no 30+ page pdf on how to write a literary analysis essay. it was a 1-page synopsis, if that, each time. he struggled with it, as he said it just didn't teach him anything. but i do feel the value is in the feedback, if your dc already knows the hows of writing and just needs to perfect it. it's why we chose SICC-C (IEW) for my dd for 9th grade to help shore up everything...

[TarynB]

1 hour ago, mirabillis said:

i asked my ds - and he concurred, there is no extensive instruction. there was no 30+ page pdf on how to write a literary analysis essay. it was a 1-page synopsis, if that, each time. he struggled with it, as he said it just didn't teach him anything. but i do feel the value is in the feedback, if your dc already knows the hows of writing and just needs to perfect it. it's why we chose SICC-C (IEW) for my dd for 9th grade to help shore up everything...

 

I don't even know what to say to this, but it sounds like your son must have missed out on critical components of the Write At Home course. That does not match up with my son's experience at all. I'm not even sure how that could happen, but reading this, it's no wonder that you feel there wasn't explicit instruction.

[TarynB]

5 hours ago, summerreading said:

 

Thank you for the recommendation. I agree it does look like a wonderful class that might be a perfect fit. I'm sure it's worth every penny, but I'm in a bit of sticker shock at the moment. The class will, however, have a high spot on my wishlist. 

 

Yes, I know it costs more than other online writing courses. But I'd be embarrassed to tell you how many other writing curricula and online writing courses we've paid for with little to show for it. I mean, there'd be forward momentum, some years more than others, but I never thought, "Oh, that one was completely worth the price." So, I hope you don't mind me sharing this on your thread, but my son is attending a residential summer program at our state's flagship university right now, taking college courses with instructors who (thankfully) have high expectations. He sent me this comment that he received from one of his professors this week: "D., this is a very well-written essay! I could not ask for more. Your writing is remarkably strong. You'll want to do this exact same thing for the upcoming research paper. Excellent work!"  That is the type of result I've been hoping for after all these years of writing classes! This is the whole point for me! 😄 And considering where my son started last year and where he ended up, I believe the Logical Communication class is 100% responsible for this result. I believe strong writing and thinking skills are so, so important. We spend more on this and then save more in other areas. Completely worth it, for us. 

Good luck to you and your son!

Edited July 2, 2019 by TarynB

[mirabillis]

let's hope you're right. i looked at it briefly too and never saw any particularly lengthy instruction at the time. i remember him floundering. but.... we're still trying it again next year. so obviously something about it clicked for us. i think it's a good 1-year option (for us) between at-home writing instruction and 11th grade AP English. i'll pay more attention and make sure we don't miss any instruction for my dd - that would be most helpful. i remember at the time thinking, oh why did we quit Windows to the World Lit analysis, thinking that would help... so maybe there's more to WAH than meets the eye, but in his opinion, it was for-sure light on the instruction. i'll see if he can still log in to his old account and look into it.

[TarynB]

45 minutes ago, mirabillis said:

let's hope you're right. i looked at it briefly too and never saw any particularly lengthy instruction at the time. i remember him floundering. but.... we're still trying it again next year. so obviously something about it clicked for us. i think it's a good 1-year option (for us) between at-home writing instruction and 11th grade AP English. i'll pay more attention and make sure we don't miss any instruction for my dd - that would be most helpful. i remember at the time thinking, oh why did we quit Windows to the World Lit analysis, thinking that would help... so maybe there's more to WAH than meets the eye, but in his opinion, it was for-sure light on the instruction. i'll see if he can still log in to his old account and look into it.

 

Yes, I agree, WAH was good for what we needed it for when we used it. And I'm not saying the weekly lessons were all that lengthy. I think most of them were a couple of pages per lesson. But the lit analysis handout is definitely a big chunk of instruction, although not a checklist or formulaic. If a kid needs more hands-on guidance maybe it just won't be enough for them, and that's where the weekly feedback loop is really helpful, as you said.