CMU Application Experience? Musical Theatre, in particular?

[AEC]

(To clarify...CarnegieMellon, not CentralMichigan)

DS is looking at musical theatre.  He also excels at, and is interested in, social sciences like Econ and Poly Sci.  He'd like to give musical theatre a real go first, but wants the backup of a degree in something else, just in case. CMU is interesting because it's a great school at both and, from their website, they are very open to that sort of cross-school double major.

Any words of guidance on homeschool applications to CMU?  Any chance someone's been through the application process to the fine arts or musical theatre dept, specifically?

 

 

[catz]

I want to follow this thread because I have a kid that applied for dual degree at CMU.

One thing I would say is now that my kid has applied many places dual degree after visiting many programs, what admissions office will tell you and what faculty will tell you about your ability to do dual degree may vary widely.   I got the feel from performing arts faculty some places that they would prefer their performing arts students not be drawn to distraction.  I actually suspect my kid's broad extracurriculars (applying to music programs - but takes lessons in 3 things and has MT interest) may hurt him in some classically oriented music programs which he is applying to.   My kid went to an info session at one school that bragged up how much they loved multi-interested students.  At the same school on the same day a music faculty member shamed my kid for suggesting he'd be working on a BA and a BM at the same time.  

Anyway - I think kids should 100% be themselves on their college applications and just put it all out there.  But I recommend applying to a broad range of schools for a student like this.   I actually wish my kid would have hand picked a few BA only programs where he could work on 2 BA's simultaneously and admissions would be less about the whims and desire of a couple faculty members and their moods on the day they talk to my kid and them projecting that he won't be focused enough.

And I do understand dual degree programs are intense and many kids drop them.  Which is fine.  No one should pigeon hole a student into NOT doing one until they chose that on their own.   Especially at an institution where they advertise it is possible.

Edited December 31, 2018 by FuzzyCatz

[AEC]

"And I do understand dual degree programs are intense and many kids drop them.  Which is fine.  No one should pigeon hole a student into NOT doing one until they chose that on their own.   Especially at an institution where they advertise it is possible. "

agreed.  TBH, I would not be shocked if he dropped the Econ to focus on the theater OR if he dropped theater to a minor and just focused on Econ (I suspect part of his hesitancy with Econ & PolySci is he doesn't understand what, exactly, those kinds of people DO...but who knows).  But I'd want it to be his choice to do that and not feel like he must if he goes in with the expectation that he can attempt both.  I wonder if it'd be different because both degrees he'd like would be BAs?

"what admissions office will tell you and what faculty will tell you about your ability to do dual degree may vary widely."

that is a good point. Did you have success getting that feedback from faculty by having him contact them directly outside of campus tour, or some other method?

 

[Guest]

For CMU, he may also want to consider applying for the APEA/Pre-college  summer program (especially if he’s a junior this year). That would give him a feel for the theater department at least, and possibly both areas depending on what classes are open, and, at least back when I did it, you could apply for admissions from the summer program and do your auditions and interviews then, which was awesome for this music major. It’s a pricey program, but CMU is a pricey school in general. 

 

 

[lewelma]

My son applied to CMU. Music is a huge part of his life, so would always be a part of his application. However, he did not apply directly into the music program at CMU. He did get into CMU and got a full tuition scholarship, but is attending MIT in the music scholars program. Given that background, this is what we were told to do and did:

1) Get an interview at CMU. This is kind of a requirement, especially for homeschoolers.  The admissions guy talked to ds for 15 minutes and then brought us in for 15 minutes to answer any questions.  I brought all my draft documentation and asked for direct advice.  He said "There is no such thing as too much documentation for a homeschooler." He was very pleased with what I gave him, and said "I wish all homeschoolers would give us this much to evaluate." He definitely looked at test scores as he commented on them. "Well, I see we don't need to discuss your SAT scores." 

2) Documentation: I sent in

   a) 1 page transcript,

   b) 2 page very dense school profile which discussed our philosophy, educational partners, approach for each core area (math, science, history, etc), and our grading scheme.  

   c) 11 page course description document with details on what was learned, what resources we used, what output was required etc.

   d) 2 page counselor letter describing what a non-traditional education looked like for my son

3) Music portfolio. This included 10 minute performance, music resume, and recommendation from his teacher (the assoc concertmaster of the NZSO).

His "why CMU" essay was designed to show off leadership skills by describing what his goals were in life, what specific skills he needed to acquire, and how CMU would help him attain his goals. It was a very good essay.

Hope this helps,

Ruth in NZ

[catz]

@AECis your son considering applying to the BFA program at CMU or a BA program?  Doing the summer pre-college program is a great idea.  The acceptance rate of the BFA theater programs are 4% at CMU.  The music school acceptance rate is 6%.  I just think it's good to know that up front and especially applying to BM VP or BFA theater programs, profs are doing casting through auditions.  We regularly go see the shows at a local highly competitive BFA theater program and they need a diverse group of types of actors in these programs to do casting.  It's easy to have your confidence shaken through this icky process.

My kid is a theater kid too but a BFA theater program is definitely not the right path for him.  He's very academic and not really a dancer.  But is considering theater for a BA/dual degree.  He is also interested in writing, composition, directing.  I could see him going in many directions after undergrad.   If he were in the right music program, I would imagine him dropping his BA over his BM first.  But it should be student's choice if they are qualified for entry.  

Ruth - that is super helpful.  We provided very similar documentation to CMU so that is comforting.  He did not interview though and kind of kicking myself.  However he did have a 1-1 45 minute lesson and private tour/discussion at the school of music and that was great.  We kind of stumbled into Carnegie Mellon on a trip to Pittsburgh and we really liked it.  We didn't know the SOM acceptance rate was 6% until after we visited.  We're waiting to hear if he is invited to audition or not.  He had a very positive lesson with an amazing teacher there but who knows.   He's got 4 auditions set up (and crossing fingers on one more closer to home I think he has good odds at) so anything else is going to be a bonus.  

ETA - music students can often get personal music tours and/or lessons set up through admissions.  I bet a theater student could contact a theater department and maybe have a sit down with someone in admissions there or possibly faculty.   Doing a summer program is a great way to get to know faculty somewhere and you will really start to get the vibes of the program.  I do feel a bit blind leading the blind here since we're in the throes of this and we are not doing BFA programs!  LOL.  I do know many kids who've auditioned for BFA's the past few years or who are doing it now.  Kids my son performs with.  If you are looking at BFA programs especially as a potential dual degree student, just make sure you have a plan B you can be happy with.  Whether that is a couple LACs with a strong theater and poli sci program or a possible gap year.  Or a flexible state school/flagship.  This week, I'm actually loving the look of our flagship for my kid.  These programs are just ridiculously competitive and entry into a program is not just about talent but possibly the whims of a couple members of faculty on one day.

Edited January 1, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[AEC]

4 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

@AECis your son considering applying to the BFA program at CMU or a BA program?"

 

He wants to do (perform) Musical Theater. re: BFA vs BA, I don't think we're really clear on the distinction.  the BFA is more focused? Strictly on the visual art topic in question?

Looks like CMU's MT program leads to the BFA. I just looked @ the course schedule and there doesn't appear to be anything like GEs.  I suppose that's what 'conservatory program' means?

[catz]

Even among BFA/BM programs, they can vary widely in distribution requirements.   You really have to do your homework ahead of time.  Honestly, I don't know as much as I should about the programs my kid applied to.  He is still strongly considering going in a BA direction if he can have lessons with a good teacher somewhere.  We'll see how the spring plays out.  

In music at least BA programs are usually 1/4 to 1/2 music classes.  And BM (or BFA or BS programs as they're called at some schools) are more like 2/3-3/4+ music classes.   I'm guessing BFA theater programs are similar, though I've heard CMU's BFA in theater is particularly theater intense.  

Edited January 2, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[lewelma]

7 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 He is still strongly considering going in a BA direction if he can have lessons with a good teacher somewhere. 

The scholarship program ds is in has given him a *top* musician to study under. She is an "affiliated artist" at MIT, and meets with her students on campus so he doesn't have to travel. She even facilitated the purchasing of a new instrument when she deemed ds's not up to snuff (I will say that I had a heart attack when I found out he had 30K worth of instruments in his dorm room!).  DS is not in a BFA program.

Edited January 2, 2019 by lewelma

[catz]

That sounds amazing lewelma!  ❤️ Congratulations!  

My kid has super well educated and experienced music teachers at home right now so he definitely doesn't want to step backward or be taking lessons from a grad student (at least for voice and/or piano).  

[lewelma]

My ds's old teacher of five years was the Associate Concertmaster of the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, so we know what it is to wonder if you can do better. But his current teacher has been of equal rank in more than one orchestra around the world in very large cities, and now is a soloist for well known orchestras in Boston. Both teachers have been outstanding, but she definitely has pushed him to up it a level now that he is in university. The scholarship program only takes 12 freshman in all instruments, so ds was very surprised to get one.

CMU was ds's second choice out of many excellent choices because of its awesome music and math programs.  Plus Pittsburgh is a really cool city!

Edited January 2, 2019 by lewelma

[catz]

Yes - we LOVED Pittsburgh.  

My kid is an unconventional VP applicant, so I'm not sure how he might do at more artistically structured and demanding schools.  I'm guessing his application might be less appealing than some and these programs are so competitive.  But we did have a fantastic day at CMU music.  Really one of the most welcoming music programs we visited - very positive day.  And we have some very negative conservatory stories to counter.  We will see!  

I really do think our flagship U could be a nice combo of slightly less structured BM program plus good academics for my kid.  Plus affordable.  Plus they'll take the 32 college credits he will graduate with.  He was invited to audition there last week.  Crossing fingers on that one.  

[lewelma]

Fingers crossed! The process of finding the best next step after high school is long and arduous. And "best" can be defined in so many ways. Good luck!