BJU Life/Earch VS Apologia Physical Science

[bnwhitaker]

I realized I posted this in the general area, Sorry if you already seen this but wanted to pop it onto this forum.

 

I was thinking of doingBJU Life for 7th & BJU Earth for 8th grade.  But we will be in a class that teaches Apologia Physical Science for 9th grade.  

 

Do you think I would be covering the same material?  

 

Can those who have used them both give me some pros & cons?  Should I maybe just skip the BJU?  Since we will be doing APS in 9th?

 

 

[Peaceful Isle]

My daughter took BJU earth and space science last year. It is very in depth and advanced, imho. I don't think it covers any physical science info. We have never used the life science from BJU so I have no thoughts on that.

[MorningGlory]

I posted a detailed comparison between BJU E&S and Apologia's PS eons ago on the logic board, but I doubt that post made the move when the forum updated. In a nutshell, Apologia's Physical Science does have some overlap with the BJU Earth text, but Apologia does not even remotely cover the material as in-depth or as well as the BJU text. However, the Apologia text includes one chapter (I think) on basic chemistry and a lot of chapters on physics. These are not covered in the BJU texts you are considering; BJU covers those topics in its Physical Science course (which includes NO earth science). And neither Apologia or BJU Physical Science courses include any life science at all. 

 

The BJU texts are very meaty and well-done. I am not a fan of the Apologia texts, but that is a personal preference. I have many irl friends who have used them multiple times and love them. 

 

The question is...What do you want to achieve with middle school science? 

 

 

[...................]

We found out this year that apologia is in general very much less in depth and less advanced than BJU. If your child is planning to take SAT subject tests BJU may be preferable.

 

We also dislike the wordy nature of apologia - my daughter in fact absolutely hated it. And Apologia Physical IMO is the worst offender of the entire series as far as over explaining simple concepts is concerned.

 

Now with all that said one wonderful thing about apologia is the labs that are so easy to do and actually work! We found the apologia Physical labs to be some of our very favorites and they truly highlight what the student is learning!

 

As my friends report this is not the case with BJU where the classroom oriented labs are often difficult or even impossible even with the kits from HST. They assume a classroom lab, equipment and trained teacher

 

So there's a mixed review for you :)

 

My dd hopes to use Abeka as long as she can but because of our local Co-op she will

Have to decide on lonely science or apologia science 😄

 

My son used apologia Physical and biology but will switch to BJU next year so that he doesn't have to study from

Other sources fo pass the SAT Subject test for Chemistry.

[Donna A.]

We found out this year that apologia is in general very much less in depth and less advanced than BJU. If your child is planning to take SAT subject tests BJU may be preferable.

 

My son used apologia Physical and biology but will switch to BJU next year so that he doesn't have to study from

Other sources fo pass the SAT Subject test for Chemistry.

 

As a mom with a college student who's about to graduate, and a high schooler who's about to graduate, and who knows MANY homeschoolers who used Apologia science all the way from General through the advanced courses, I disagree that Apologia is in any way inadequate or insufficient for college testing or college performance or readiness.  As a matter of fact, our nursing student friend used her Apologia texts to HELP her with college level science courses, simply because Dr. Wile *explains* things better (in his annoyingly wordy way... and the intro college-level information is there in the Apologia texts.)  I'm talking about students who did extremely well on their college testing, with students who are competitive in nature and achieved near-perfect or very high scores on both the SAT and ACT, and who then went through college with 4.0 or high 3.x GPAs. These "Apologia students" that I know -- some personally, and some indirectly through our homeschool circles -- have attended/are attending a variety of schools from community college to public 4-year to private colleges.  They have achieved degrees in (or are currently studying) nursing, dentistry, pharmacy, dietary management, engineering (physics, biochemistry, mechanical, and electrical), law enforcement, physiology (for physical therapy), and sales, as well as non-sciency programs including music and art.  (No, I'm not exaggerating.  If this weren't a public forum, I could *name* each of the students in the specific programs I listed... and yes, I know for a *fact* that they did Apologia science.  These are just the ones I KNOW about, but there are at least hundreds, and maybe even thousands more homeschoolers in our area who did Apologia all the way through, and I haven't heard a single complaint about Apologia not being adequate enough for college no matter what their degree program.) 

 

Likewise, all the part-time classical schools for homeschoolers here in our large metro area, in one of the wealthiest counties in the country, use Apologia, and so do the homeschool co-ops.  (Many of which include classical homeschoolers.)  Most of these parents would absolutely NOT be using Apologia if it were insufficient in any way.  "Longer" and "harder" doesn't necessarily mean "better".

 

"Style" between the two publishers is definitely a personal preference thing, but to claim that Apologia isn't good enough or thorough enough for excellent SAT and ACT scores, and the scholarships that those scores can bring, simply isn't true.  Just because Apologia doesn't go AS in-depth (technically) as BJU doesn't mean it's not "adequate".  It just means BJU probably includes a lot more than is necessary.  This brings me to my next comment.

 

We are longtime Apologia users.  But this year, with my youngest as an 8th grader and two students who are not my own (8th and 5th grades), we're giving BJU Earth Science a try for the 8th graders.  We *just* switched, so we've only done one lesson so far, but I'm already seeing how much more advanced BJU is than Apologia.  There are two reasons why we switched:

 

-- The wordy writing style in Apologia, which is annoying for these 8th graders who are not strong readers.  And,

 

-- My students who are not my own are used to the "classroom textbook" style.  (They came out of the public school system.)  Since they're learning several subjects in a totally new (to them) and different way this year, I decided to concede on this one. 

 

I suspect, though, that I'll be referring to the Apologia texts for explanations along the way. ;)  When my middle girl started ACE Chemistry with a friend of hers (whose mother used to be a nurse), the mom and I found out after three weeks in that we were both referring to the Apologia texts for help in order to do the ACE lessons... and ACE is "supposed" to be a lot easier than Apologia!  So we just switched to Apologia and did that instead.  Apologia Chem has tons more math in it than ACE (which is why we tried ACE), but since Dr. Wile's *explanations* were more understandable, we could work through the math.  In fact, my oldest used something *much* simpler for chemistry because she's not mathy at all (none of us in this family are, really), but after seeing that her sister (also not mathy) really COULD do Apologia Chem, she was wishing she had gone ahead and done it, too.  

 

So it's a trade-off.  Annoying wordiness in this case means good explanations.  And remember that Apologia was written specifically FOR homeschoolers, not for science teachers in a classroom.  Dr. Wile's texts may be wordy, but the fact that he *explains* both the terms and the science itself in such a way that non-science teachers can UNDERSTAND it make it totally worth it (for many, obviously, but not all).  And that's probably also why so many homeschoolers do so well on college testing and performance in science... because they actually *understand* what they've been studying all those years, and are therefore not intimidated by it.  :)  

 

Since we've just started the BJU, it remains to be seen how the year will actually end up, but I feel pretty certain we'll go back to Apologia for Biology and up.

 

Ultimately it comes down to a style preference.... but it's definitely NOT an issue of Apologia being "less advanced" or inadequate for college prep, as the numerous examples I listed above prove.

[...................]

Apologia Biology does not cover huge swaths of information that is on the SAT Biology subject Test.

 

That's frustrating because my son now has to take the khan academy AP study course alongside the Apologia course.

 

I never said it was "inadequate" overall - but for the purpose of SAT Subject testing, unfortunately especially the Biology just doesn't have the info needed. It is NOT physically In the book. I don't know how much more clearly I can state that.

 

Also annoying wordiness does not mean understanding. Sometimes it's just annoying to the child. My son doesn't need all the explanations and my daughter doesn't like them. Two very different kids who both prefer other programs.

 

But again it really depends on what your goal is and what you want. BJU is more in depth, has more info and moves much faster. And particularly for the Biology it covers the info we would have needed.

 

But apologia is more user-friendly, more widely supported at co-ops (because of the above), more available to a broader range of students, and the labs ALWAYS work and are always fun and interesting. We really like Mrs Fowler, from Apologia Academy online. She is an awesome

Teacher and brings in many outside topics and videos and discussions - highly recommend her!!!

 

I'm not in any way bashing Apologia science And we've used two whole years of it.

 

But it is different and the differences are clearly outlined above.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Calming Tea

[Donna A.]

Apologia Biology does not cover huge swaths of information that is on the SAT Biology subject Test.

 

That's frustrating because my son now has to take the khan academy AP study course alongside the Apologia course.

 

No, he doesn't.  He can take the Advanced Apologia Biology (HA&P) course.  That's what my girls did, as did every other Apologia user I know who didn't take a different advanced science instead.  These two years of Apologia Bio equal an AP credit.  And from what I've read, many who do BJU Bio end up having to do it over two years *because* it includes the HA&P, which wouldn't leave enough time for someone who's going into engineering to take Advanced Chem or Physics or whatever their preference is.  Anyone who isn't going into a medical field doesn't *NEED* HA&P.  This was the argument that one family we know (our pastor's family, so we know them very well) had when the mom wanted her son, who was going into mechanical engineering, to take Advanced Bio like his sister, who was studying to be a nurse.  The son wanted to take Advanced Physics, which is what he needed.  Thankfully he won the argument, but we all thought it was ridiculous that they even had to have the argument. 

 

I never said it was "inadequate" overall - but for the purpose of SAT Subject testing, unfortunately especially the Biology just doesn't have the info needed. It is NOT physically In the book. I don't know how much more clearly I can state that.

 

Well yeah, you kinda' did.  And I'm saying that's not true.  I assure you that all these very smart, classically educated "Apologia students" we know who did NOT do Advanced Bio, and who went into a number of different sciences for college, didn't do poorly on the SAT because they didn't take Advanced Bio.  That is a FACT. :\  

 

Also annoying wordiness does not mean understanding. Sometimes it's just annoying to the child. My son doesn't need all the explanations and my daughter doesn't like them. Two very different kids who both prefer other programs.

 

I agree.  I did say it's a *style* issue.  Even Jetta above stated that, even though she leans more toward BJU, it's a personal preference.  But personal preference does NOT equal inadequate for college prep, testing, and performance, which is what I'm arguing against.  

I'm not in any way bashing Apologia science And we've used two whole years of it.

 

Yeah, you kinda' were bashing it by claiming that it's not "enough" and maligning its academic reputation and performance.  It's just a different style.  I've read that biology argument a number of times before, and it's a false argument because of the fact that not everyone *NEEDS* HA&P.  (We've used six whole years of it, and so have many, many others whose kids went on to more science-technical fields than my daughters.) 

But it is different and the differences are clearly outlined above.

 

Yes, it is different, and no one has disagreed with that.

 

 

Look, I don't care whether someone uses Apologia, BJU, Abeka, or whatever for high school science.  It's a personal preference.  But there is absolutely NO evidence that Apologia doesn't include enough for the student to be able to do well on the SAT.  NONE.  And if the student isn't going into a medical field, they don't need HA&P at the high school level.  That is a fact.

 

My point about the wordiness bringing better explanations (obviously) applies to MANY people.  I realize that not everyone likes the wodiness, and that's fine.  I was just wanted to point out why the style difference works for so many people (it's written specifically for homeschoolers, not classroom science teachers), for the benefit of the OP. 

 

And btw, the gal who taught Apologia Bio to my oldest at a classical enrichment school for homeschoolers had been a science teacher in the classroom for many, many years.  She wasn't just some uneducated mom who couldn't understand something "harder".  Likewise, the gal who taught Advanced Bio to my daughter had also been teaching science for many years, and was (is) herself an Occupational Therapist.  Again, not some uneducated mom who didn't understand something "harder".  The gal who did the shared teaching with me of all the sciences to our daughters together used to be a nurse.  So again, not just some uneducated mom who couldn't understand something "harder".  I could keep going about the different training that all the "Apologia moms" I know have had.....

 

(P.S. I'm sorry for sounding so argumentative.  But obviously, I resent the implication that Apologia is only good for either teachers or adults who "can't" do something harder.  The fact that it was written FOR homeschoolers simply means that *anyone* can teach it, not just classroom science teachers. :( ) 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Donna A.

[Donna A.]

I posted a detailed comparison between BJU E&S and Apologia's PS eons ago on the logic board, but I doubt that post made the move when the forum updated. In a nutshell, Apologia's Physical Science does have some overlap with the BJU Earth text, but Apologia does not even remotely cover the material as in-depth or as well as the BJU text. However, the Apologia text includes one chapter (I think) on basic chemistry and a lot of chapters on physics. These are not covered in the BJU texts you are considering; BJU covers those topics in its Physical Science course (which includes NO earth science). And neither Apologia or BJU Physical Science courses include any life science at all. 

 

The BJU texts are very meaty and well-done. I am not a fan of the Apologia texts, but that is a personal preference. I have many irl friends who have used them multiple times and love them. 

 

The question is...What do you want to achieve with middle school science? 

 

Thank you, Jetta!  This comparison of content between these two specific sciences in answer to the OP was very helpful to me as I plot out how we're going to finish the year, and then move into 9th grade. :)  I think we'll spread Earth Science over the two years, while also weaving in some of the Apologia Physical.  This means I won't have to buy anything else for science (yay!), because I plan to return to Apologia exclusively for basic biology.  And I think for their advanced sciences, I'll have one do Apologia Advanced Bio (HA&P), and the other girl do something else since she said that if she goes to college, she wants to study archaeology.  (Which is why she was excited when I bought the BJU Earth Science! :) )

Edited November 7, 2016 by Donna A.

[...................]

Wow 😳

 

Whatever :)

 

I hope my previous posts are helpful, though in re-reading the OP's question she actually didn't even need the I depth comparisons because she was looking to see about overlap.

 

( But I will point out that the SAT and SAT subject tests are two different things. And the AP is a third. The SAT Subject test is not as difficult or comprehensive as the AP Biology and if my son had taken a regular high school or BJU Biology the material would have been Covered in ONE course for the SAT SUBJECT attest (not AP) )

[Donna A.]

I hope my previous posts are helpful, though in re-reading the OP's question she actually didn't even need the I depth comparisons because she was looking to see about overlap.

 

Yes, overlap specifically about Earth Science and Physical. :)