X-Posted Preschooler Social Skills

[ReadingMama1214]

Dd is 4.5 (5 in December). She is creative, bright, and sweet. She is introverted and does extremely well voicing when she needs alone time and time away from people. She has a vivid imagination and tells excellent original stories and does great with imaginative play. She does excellent at home and with us and tends to either be extremely shy or overly affectionate to other adults in public. For example, she will talk all day and call after a waiter at our local restaurant and then not speak at all when we have dinner with adult friends.

 

This summer she has complained about her class at church. She's said that she sat alone and no one played with her. It turns out that the girls in the class (all turning 5 this summer) were being a bit catty and dramatic. Dd tends to shy away from clicks and is not assertive. She does play with her friends wel 1:1.

 

Today I peeked into her class and the other girls were playing a game and Dd ran up and tried to play a completely different game. It's been clear that she doesn't always pick up on social cues or how to join into games being played.

 

Ive noticed that she tends to engage other kids by roaring and pretending to be an animal or trying to get them to play a completely unrelated game.

 

In her half day preschool class her teacher said she does play with other kids. She also said she doesn't tend to talk much, even to the teachers. She said she has a hard time getting Dd to use full sentences with her. Dd talks extremely well for her age at home.

 

Do you do anything to help your kids gain social skills? She's an introvert and I don't want to change her or push her to change, but I want her to be comfortable in social settings.

 

She is also prone to tantrums sometimes that seem extensive for her age. Ex: threw a loud fit in target because the lantern she was getting for camping had "lines" in the plastic light cover. She says she can't calm down and it's too hard to stop.

[PeterPan]

You might want to pull this over to LC (Learning Challenges) as well to get answers over there.  It's good that you're noticing these things and asking for some help.  I think you could notice some nuances.  For instance, when you say she plays well with her friends 1:1, is there reciprocity or is there a control imbalance?  In her imaginative play, is it scripted or repeating things she saw on tv or read in books?  Is there reciprocity?  Does she direct it or are you able to change roles and things in the play?  

 

You're describing a lot of things she's missing socially, and it's in multiple contexts.  Even some of the characteristics you're describing (extremely one way then extremely another, extreme abilities and glaring gaps) are typical of a dc who has some SN.  It's an especially common presentation with gifted kids and girls.  Girls are more likely to get missed for diagnosis and intervention BECAUSE they have these girl strengths (the verbal, the interaction) masking their weaknesses.

 

My ds is gifted and diagnosed with ASD as part of his mix.  He has always been exceptionally verbal, in spite of his apraxia and ASD.  He had imaginative play, but it was very scripted and not reflecting developmental steps other kids would have.  We thought he was shy, because he didn't respond to people.  Now that he has had a significant amount of ABA he goes to people who come into our house, yes.  He might answer them, or he might carry on a whole conversation in echolalia!  The roaring instead of using words is very familiar, yes.  Not understanding the group plan and going up and trying to change the plan, yes.  There's also "central coherence theory" or the idea that the group activity is happening so fast that he might notice a detail ("Throw the ball to me, I'm open!") and not notice the larger point of the game (get the ball to the end zone, everyone is running that direction and you're going the opposite way, lol).  

 

I would be concerned about the things you're saying, because they're significant and occurring in multiple contexts.  Could just be some anxiety, could be a little ADHD with social delay, could push a little farther.  The intervention we're using is a behaviorist who works through materials like We Thinkers from SocialThinking.com The materials are EXCEPTIONALLY good and we saw RAPID improvement in our ds.  He started in May, and people who are coming to visit us this summer are BLOWN AWAY at the changes.  They just renamed Incredible Flexible You to We Thinkers, because now they have a We Thinkers 1 and We Thinkers 2.  The materials are AWESOME.  They would work on EXACTLY the issues you're dealing with, and they'll be appropriate irrespective of diagnosis.  Whatever they call it (anxiety, social delay, adhd, whatever), the materials will target effectively the things you're seeing.  They're fun and they're taught with stories, books, and games.  My ds LOVES when his behaviorist comes!

 

The main challenge is getting someone to give you the referral to get your insurance to pay for it.  If you're open to evals, it's time to consider evals.  I'm pro evals.  Some people are not there in their minds yet and need some time for that.  But if you're asking what you could do and how you get there, that's how.  You get evals, start with a behaviorist, get some intervention going.  They'll use materials like The 5 Point Scale and Zones of Regulation to get some of the behavior stuff under control.  They'll practice calming strategies and help her use a choice board and a list of tools.  It's all good stuff.  

 

While you *can* buy the materials yourself, I STRONGLY encourage you to get a behaviorist to use them with her.  I went to the SocialThinking.com training and it's good stuff!  You should go!  You can register and go and it's not too expensive.  But when I look at how the behaviorist implements the materials, it's SO FAR above and beyond and better than what I would do if I did them myself.  And when you bring a behaviorist onto your team, you're getting someone to help you problem solve.  Just works out better.  Although SLPs and OTs will get the training, personally I would get a behaviorist.  

[ReadingMama1214]

Thanks for your response.

 

She does have reciprocity in her play. For example, when playing doctor or house with a friend, they'll both take turns with the Doctor tools or with items for their baby. They'll often switch roles and play along well. Her imaginative play and play with friends in small groups seems on age level. I've asked her teacher about this and she has not noticed any abnormal play things. The roaring is usually when a group is running around and playing and she tries to join in. It's not a consistent means of joining in.

 

In her imaginative play, she isn't scripted or using plots. It's usually original story lines. She does well making up elaborate stories for her toy dolls, dollhouse, or puppets. The only copying I have noticed is that she will use situations we have had when interacting between a mommy doll and a baby doll (ex. She'll use the same reassuring words I use).

 

Her conversation isn't echolalia either or scripted. She doesn't seem to repeat similar phrases for certain contexts. She carries on pretty well in conversation and will ask and answer questions as they come up. With her friends, they'll talk about what to play, what they did, events that happened, etc. it seems like pretty normal preschool conversation with her peers. The talking in the class seems to be more of her discomfort in large and chaotic settings. Her class was a lot of high energy and loud kids and that tends to put Dd off. She doesn't like loud and chaos normally.

 

 

We have discussed these concerns with our pedi a few times and he doesn't seem concerned. He said he did not think a developmental assessment was necessary and that our insurance most likely would not cover any screenings due to lack of a diagnosis. He's pretty familiar with ASD and didn't think what we saw warranted that diagnosis being examined.

[cabritadorada]

It can be hard to know what is social stuff that requires intervention, and what is normal but painful to watch because your child is learning through social failure...

 

Mostly I'm following your post to get tips. :)

 

The roaring thing sounds very familiar to me -- I cringed when my then 4 yo dd tried to join an ongoing game by bear hugging/tackling one of the kids (whom she did not know) - not a success. She's on the shy side and when she psyches herself up to dive into a game she can overdo it. I'd been coaching her on the "just ask to join in" thing but apparently that's easier said than done--things have improved considerably in the last year though. 

 

Anyway, my dd had an early intervention eval (for speech, but they check everything) at age 4 and she's normal in terms of social development, pre-k teacher said she was doing fine socially--but she does and will continue to experience some social strife.

Edited August 8, 2016 by cabritadorada

[ReadingMama1214]

It can be hard to know what is social stuff that requires intervention, and what is normal but painful to watch because your child is learning through social failure...

 

Mostly I'm following your post to get tips. :)

 

The roaring thing sounds very familiar to me -- I cringed when my then 4 yo dd tried to join an ongoing game by bear hugging/tackling one of the kids (whom she did not know) - not a success. She's on the shy side and when she psyches herself up to dive into a game she can overdo it. I'd been coaching her on the "just ask to join in" thing but apparently that's easier said than done--things have improved considerably in the last year though.

 

Anyway, my dd had an early intervention eval (for speech, but they check everything) at age 4 and she's normal in terms of social development, pre-k teacher said she was doing fine socially--but so she does and will continue to experience some social strife.

That sounds similar to Dd. Maybe she is just getting over excited about playing. Her church class teacher also says she does well and sometimes doesn't play with the group if the girls are being catty or cliquish. But she seems overexcited to join in play. She does join the game they are playing, but it's her initial attempt that's sometimes awkward to watch. We have coached her on asking to join in.

[PeterPan]

You might do a board search for some of the threads with book lists for introverted kids.  We've had some in the past.  To use google to search the boards, put the terms and site:welltrainedmind.com  

Edited August 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[ReadingMama1214]

You might do a board search for some of the threads with book lists for introverted kids. We've had some in the past. To use google to search the boards, put the terms and site:welltrainedmind.com

Thanks! I'll look at those. I do wonder if her social skills are more related to the introversion. My husband and I both are introverts and it was obvious from a very young age that she was as well. I don't have any issues with it, but I do want her equipped to handle various situations she may face.

[PeterPan]

My dd is an introvert, and she doesn't have any of the challenges you described.  I totally agree there's a range, which is why reading some books on introverts could be good.  

 

If you're open to it, here's the program I was telling you about.  It's ADORABLE.

 

Socialthinking - The Incredible Flexible You Curriculum Set Volume 1 (Deluxe)

 

Also considering reading about this

Socialthinking - The Incredible 5-Point Scale - 2nd Edition

The methodology is so easy, you might find it something you can begin now.

 

or see if your library has

 

Socialthinking - Helping Your Anxious Child

It might give you more ideas to apply.  

 

Your library will also have social story books that you can get through ILL to use for free.  You can rabbit trail them on amazon.  We like the ones by Julia Cook, but also the Cheri Meiners series is good.  Your library may have all of these.

 

Cool Down and Work Through Anger (Learning to Get Along®)

 

[ReadingMama1214]

My dd is an introvert, and she doesn't have any of the challenges you described. I totally agree there's a range, which is why reading some books on introverts could be good.

 

If you're open to it, here's the program I was telling you about. It's ADORABLE.

 

Socialthinking - The Incredible Flexible You Curriculum Set Volume 1 (Deluxe)

 

Also considering reading about this

Socialthinking - The Incredible 5-Point Scale - 2nd Edition

The methodology is so easy, you might find it something you can begin now.

 

or see if your library has

 

Socialthinking - Helping Your Anxious Child

It might give you more ideas to apply.

 

Your library will also have social story books that you can get through ILL to use for free. You can rabbit trail them on amazon. We like the ones by Julia Cook, but also the Cheri Meiners series is good. Your library may have all of these.

 

Cool Down and Work Through Anger (Learning to Get Along®)

I agree there is a range. We did look into ASD/Aspergers, but it doesn't seem to be a diagnosable issue. It was one I considered.

 

Helping Your Anxious Child looks excellent. She is somewhat anxious. Cautious as well both physically and relationally. But she's recently started biting/chewing her nails and I sense she's been more anxious Lately so those resources look great.

[PeterPan]

The average age for diagnosis of aspergers (when it was still called that) was 8 or 9 I think.  You can look it up.  When you're talking ASD level 1, it really is that type of thing where people are like maybe they'll outgrow it.  So what you watch is do the behaviors drop away or do they hold and their peers pull ahead, that kind of thing...  It's just something you can watch.  The interventions I listed will be good no matter WHAT you conclude when she's 12.  And it really may be a while before some of it becomes really clear.

 

Does she have sensory issues? 

[PeterPan]

Aspergirls: Empowering Females with Asperger Syndrome

 

Again, I'm NOT saying what's going on, but if you want a read specifically on girls and ASD (and why it can get missed), this is a book that gets recommended. I just like to read across labels, so to me I would just throw it in the pile.

Edited August 9, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[ReadingMama1214]

Aspergirls: Empowering Females with Asperger Syndrome

 

Again, I'm NOT saying what's going on, but if you want a read specifically on girls and ASD (and why it can get missed), this is a book that gets recommended. I just like to read across labels, so to me I would just throw it in the pile.

Thanks. I've actually read that one and a couple of others on girls with aspies. She's missing some of the bigger red flags even in girls. I was just looking through it again and the glaring social issues do not seem present. It is definitely something to keep an eye on though. Unfortunately we can't get a federal to a developmental pedi without her regular pedi referring. And we love our pedi and trust him with a lot of things. His daughter is actually very similar in temperament.

 

She has some sensory things, but when we pursued it with her pedi he did not believe it to be true sensory processing issues. Mainly because they were not persistent issues, life-limiting sensitivity, and they were not present in all situations. Her sensitivities also come and go. For example, shoes may be an issue for a while, but then she's fine. And her sensitivity are only present at home and not in other setting such as school or church. She'd complain about shoes/clothing at home, but never at school. Her pedi said she is sensory sensitive. We've talked with a behaviorist and they also agreed that it seems to be more of a sensitivity than a processing issue. Mainly because she can be rationally talked down or work on them. For example, she had issues with her car seat and the straps. We did a sticker chart and she was able to regulate her emotions and work through it to earn rewards.

[ReadingMama1214]

when we looked into pursuing an Evaluation to look into Aspergers, her pedi and I noted she's missing some key symptoms. She hasn't been hyper focused on any topic or thing. She has eye contact and can read both verbal and nonverbal body language. She doesn't mimic or have scripted responses. And she initiated socially.

 

When I think of the tantrums and sensory things, I do think of Aspergers. But then I see she is lacking these normal red flags and wonder if Aspergers would be the right diagnosis or if there is a similar issue. Or if it is all just temperament.