My Experience With A More Socialist? State

[kokotg]

What about personal satisfaction/intrinsic motivation?

 

What about moral motivation?

 

I just don't see why the motivation to have more "stuff" should be the sole driving force of a society, nor why a job like, say... teacher of future citizens and leaders (thereby impacting all of society) should be less rewarded than say... guy who sits in big corner office and makes decisions about a company (impacting a small percentage of society by profiting shareholders).

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

I think this is why I'm not a very good capitalist. And also why I have a hard time "getting" libertarianism, even though a lot of people I respect and admire are libertarians (really--some of my best friends are libertarians! :lol:) It seems to be too fixated on the idea that money is the primary thing that motivates people. I'm a homeschooling, SAHM and DH is a public school teacher, so, clearly, money isn't what's motivating US with most of our decisions. I wouldn't work harder homeschooling my kids if I were getting paid for it. I think people work hard when they find their work meaningful and satisfying. And I do think a society that values acquiring wealth above all else tends to create jobs that have no meaning outside of a paycheck...so it's kind of a vicious circle.

[Once]

Amy in NH - I agree with a lot of what you've said but I'd just add that I think Canada IS a capitalistic society to a great degree. It's just that the US is a capitalistic society to an extreme. I tend to think the US is at an extreme on a lot of issues (the US definition of liberal for instance seems to be barely moderate to a lot of us outside the US) but doesn't seem to recognize that because it rarely seems to compare itself to other nations.

 

 

:iagree: Having lived in both I will say that they have similarities. The difference is how the culture and the people commit to it. I beleive Canadians commit less to capitalism, maybe even to the point of shunning it. Although, Canadians benifit from the similarities between the countries in that when you work hard you get ahead.

[Colleen in NS]

Rose, I'm kind of wishing I'd sat on this another day before I posted, because I definitely posted "in the heat of the moment" yesterday.

 

So it literally felt like a quick jump forward and then a long slide back. That took the wind out of our sails.

 

Even after four years I'm not beyond a little culture shock now and then.

 

Hi Jennifer,

 

I think I hear you (correct me if I'm wrong) - you just wanted to write about *your* experience here and how surprising it was that it was different from how you thought it would be, right? And that it could take away *your* motivation, not people's motivation to work in general? I guess I didn't see that when I posted a reply (until I looked at your original title :)).

 

Anyway, I understand about the culture shock - it took me years to "accept" ideas like free health care, child tax benefit, GST refund, and to figure out how the income levels affected these things - it just went against all I had been used to in the States. Looking back over 15 years of being here, though, I can see that my mindset has changed, and I do see (I can't believe I'm about to write this!) basic health care and family support as more of a right and necessity for all people, so now I feel more freed up to apply my motivations elsewhere besides working for money (dh can do that, while I do the mom/teacher/manager thing).

 

Someone else's post made me think that people think you can't choose your own doctor in Canada's medical system - you can. You just have to find someone who accepts new patients, which can be hard in rural areas. But I chose my family doc, and she refers us to specialists as needed. If I wanted to, I could find another family doc who takes new patients - there is nothing preventing that in the medical system (but I love our doctor, so I won't!! :)).

[Sarah CB]

Ditto.

 

:iagree:

[Once]

.... it took me years to "accept" ideas like free health care, child tax benefit, GST refund, and to figure out how the income levels affected these things - it just went against all I had been used to in the States. Looking back over 15 years of being here, though, I can see that my mindset has changed, and I do see (I can't believe I'm about to write this!) basic health care and family support as more of a right and necessity for all people, so now I feel more freed up to apply my motivations elsewhere besides working for money (dh can do that, while I do the mom/teacher/manager thing).

 

 

 

It can be disheartening if you find yourself in the situations of working harder to get behind. We were once in that spot with our taxes. We worked hard to get just above the cut off and actually had a lower net income the next year. But we saw that as a temporary thing. The year after we were better off again.

 

I quoted you Colleen because I believe that your insight shows that same value in long term growth rather than the bottom line at the end of the tax year.

 

Having the social net helps people become everything they commit to being and zeros out any crisis that is definately short term. If there is no social net then these temorary set backs can sink you for much longer perhaps until the end of your life if you talking about health related expenses. So in a weird way, after you get accustom to the social net, you are more motivated because you know that crisis will not slow you down and knock you from the game.

[Colleen in NS]

Having the social net helps people become everything they commit to being and zeros out any crisis that is definately short term.

 

after you get accustom to the social net, you are more motivated because you know that crisis will not slow you down and knock you from the game.

 

(bold highlight is mine)

 

Exactly!!!! That is exactly what I have discovered!!

 

When I stopped working for money 11 years ago to raise my family, we went below (sometimes waaaay below) the poverty line. We've been below it all this time, but the free medical and child tax benefits have enabled us to make ends meet to stay healthy, fed, and sheltered (without going on welfare). I have also worked *harder* to make the most of any money we do have (I know The Complete Tightwad Gazette inside and out, LOL!), and harder to figure out how to frugally give my kids the education I want them to have. I've had to work hard to figure all this out so that we wouldn't go into debt (except mortgage), too. Dh is self-employed with a skill (guitar teaching) that will make the most money that he could make right now.

 

I guess I just see the whole Canadian system as a gift ("gift" being my American way of thinking, "right" being my Canadian way of thinking - I'm a dual citizen - it's hard on my brain sometimes, LOL!) to be used wisely. And I know that when my kids are grown, I'll have a whole host of new skills with which to go out and earn money once the child tax benefit is not applicable anymore (and my taxes will contribute to younger families being able to do what I'm doing now).

[Once]

I guess I just see the whole Canadian system as a gift ("gift" being my American way of thinking, "right" being my Canadian way of thinking - I'm a dual citizen - it's hard on my brain sometimes, LOL!) to be used wisely. And I know that when my kids are grown, I'll have a whole host of new skills with which to go out and earn money once the child tax benefit is not applicable anymore (and my taxes will contribute to younger families being able to do what I'm doing now).

 

I can see you are very motivated. It is a gift my friend. But it is also a right. ;)

[kokotg]

I don't think libertarianism is all about money being primary motivation. IMO it is more about personal responsibility vs. government responsibility.

 

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned libertarianism :lol:. No, I hear what you're saying, and there is much about libertarianism that I'm on board with. A discussion of where it and I part ways is WAY outside the scope of this thread. Which is why I shouldn't have tossed it out there in my post.