writing and rhetoric questions

[Momof3littles]

I am planning on starting WWS with DS1 (10 yo, will be a 5th grader) this year, but I've also been contemplating adding something in like W&R after reading so many threads.  I did a search, but would still like to run a few things by those experienced with these books.

 

My DD is almost 7.5 and I think would enjoy Fable. 

DS1 can write a strong paragraph, and has completed the Town level of MCT.  He's pretty advanced in language arts, but only recently has really come to enjoy creative writing.  He now tells me paragraph writing is "easy."  He has written short essays in the past.

 

Would you recommend starting him in Narrative 1?  Higher?  Does it matter where we jump in?  FWIW, he's never completed formal outlining.  I would like to touch on this some with him this year for sure.

 

Does one need both the TM and student books for these?  I am hesitant to shell out more money than necessary, as we have loads of LA resources (MCT materials, WWE 1-3, WWS, Jensen's punctuation, Killgallon sentence composition, FLL, you name it).  Can I use the TM and the student writes on their own paper?

[Chrysalis Academy]

I would start DS in Narrative 2.  I've been spouting off a lot lately about how I think it is the ideal bridge into WWS - a kid who has done some outlining and some narrative writing using Narrative 2 will find WWS much easier - WWS takes those skills to the next level, using more difficult reading passages.  If he has already done Paragraph Town and is solid on writing paragraphs, Narrative 1 might be "too easy" for him.  Narrative 2 sounds like just the right level of challenge.  You can take a peek at some of the papers my dd11 has written using Narrative 2 in this thread:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/514019-using-cap-wr-with-older-students/

 

The caveat is that my dd has already done WWS, so I required more from her from the assignments - so for example, for the Hercules assignment, the book told them to expand the story with either a descriptive or a dialog passage, and I had her do both plus rewrite the story from the previous day's outline.  The Tiger and the Brahmin assignment asks the student to rewrite a portion of the story with a new protagonist, but she decided to rewrite the whole thing.  I offer this explanation so that 1) you don't get intimidated if that seems like a lot of writing, and 2) you see that it is easy to expand the assignments for a kid who can handle more writing.

 

I haven't used the TMs, though I did buy them for the first two books.  The only thing you "need" them for, IMO, is for the dictation sentences, so I just use a passage from the story for dictation instead and it works out fine.

[Momof3littles]

Thank you!  Very helpful.

[Momof3littles]

Back to ask, when you say Narrative 2, that is not Narrative 1, book 2, correct?  For some reason I find the numbering system a bit confusing, but I'm very new to exploring this as an option. 

 

This is narrative 2, correct? (book 3?) http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Rhetoric-Book-Narrative-Student/dp/1600512356/ref=sr_1_3_title_0_main?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1401976831&sr=1-3&keywords=classical+academic+press+writing+and+rhetoric

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, I've been going with the names on the covers, not the book orders, so in my post, Book 1 is Fable, Book 2 is Narrative 1, and Book 3 is Narrative 2.  I guess that is a little confusing!  But yes, the one you linked is Narrative 2, the one I was suggesting for your 5th grader.  

 

There is nothing wrong with starting him in Narrative 1, but because you said he is an advanced writer and is ready for multi-paragraph writing, and doesn't want something "too easy" I thought this might be the sweet spot for him.

[Momof3littles]

I think I will try the level you suggested with him, and if it isn't working out I'll back up to Narrative book 2.  I think what you suggested sounds appropriate for him, however.  One of the successes of the past year is that my reluctant writer is now telling me paragraph writing is "easy," and we no longer have handwringing and teeth gnashing over writing assignments :)  He's always had the ability, but his perfectionism was a major obstacle.