creekland Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I have a question... I was talking with a student (junior) recently and college/future plans came up. She told me she didn't have to worry too much about her SAT scores because she was likely to be recruited for a sport (true). Her sport is not a big media sport. It's something kind of akin to softball in popularity - NOT softball, but similar in a way. She's considering some very top schools that normally need high scores. Is she right or is it a myth that I ought to tactfully put a word in otherwise about? I have the ability to suggest otherwise without it looking like a "know it all" as I have a bit of credibility with students, but I honestly don't know if she is right or not. I don't think she makes the Top 10 list of players to watch in our state, but she is quite good and could improve with another year or two of playing. I don't mind letting her mind think such a thing IF she is right. I'm concerned if she puts all of her eggs in any particular basket if she's not likely to be right... and NOW is the time to change thoughts IF appropriate. What is the Hive's experience? Can a 1700 score fit a 2200+ school if sports are part of the picture as long as the coach is sure s/he wants you? Can it vary by the school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 First female athletes are highly desired by any school who gives football scholarships. That's because generally male and female athletic scholarships must be equivalent which means at a school fielding a football team, they need a lot of offsets. It's also desirable to be in an odd field such as rowing because there will be few competitors. In sports that are more competitive like softball or soccer for instance, she'll be chosen by her talent level not her SAT. The only thing she'll need in terms of SAT is to make it over the NCAA hurdle not the school's hurdle. It used to be Ivy league schools had gentleman's agreement and only recruited athletes as some minimum level of academic competition, but they've apparently let that go in the last few years. So here's the NCAA chart: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_center/Quick_Reference_Sheet.pdf The Price of Admission claims that as much as 25% of the student body at competitive schools are admitted under these lower standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Thanks for the link. She'll definitely meet those qualifications, so at this point, I'm going to let her thinking stand. She's probably right. I try to correct those who see the mailings they get from the PSAT/SAT/ACT and assume the school is "recruiting them" even when their scores just don't match and wasn't sure if this was a similar situation or not. It seems not. The first is purely marketing to get their application numbers up. The second appears as if it is legitimate recruiting. I appreciate the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCMom Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I have a question... I was talking with a student (junior) recently and college/future plans came up. She told me she didn't have to worry too much about her SAT scores because she was likely to be recruited for a sport (true). Her sport is not a big media sport. It's something kind of akin to softball in popularity - NOT softball, but similar in a way. She's considering some very top schools that normally need high scores. Is she right or is it a myth that I ought to tactfully put a word in otherwise about? I have the ability to suggest otherwise without it looking like a "know it all" as I have a bit of credibility with students, but I honestly don't know if she is right or not. I don't think she makes the Top 10 list of players to watch in our state, but she is quite good and could improve with another year or two of playing. I don't mind letting her mind think such a thing IF she is right. I'm concerned if she puts all of her eggs in any particular basket if she's not likely to be right... and NOW is the time to change thoughts IF appropriate. What is the Hive's experience? Can a 1700 score fit a 2200+ school if sports are part of the picture as long as the coach is sure s/he wants you? Can it vary by the school? Yeah it happens. One of my daughter's sports aquaintances just verbally committed to a selective school; she has a low GPA and LOW SAT scores (relatively, anyway). She would not have gotten into this school otherwise. The school is currently ranked 6th in the sport and they want to move up... The student is somewhere in the top 20 in the country in her events. However, in my experience, most athletes will not see this happen. Most students who think they are gonna get the big bonanza, lol, do not. IS she that good on a national level? If not then she might want to rethink. Georgia Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Yeah it happens. One of my daughter's sports aquaintances just verbally committed to a selective school; she has a low GPA and LOW SAT scores (relatively, anyway). She would not have gotten into this school otherwise. The school is currently ranked 6th in the sport and they want to move up... The student is somewhere in the top 20 in the country in her events. However, in my experience, most athletes will not see this happen. Most students who think they are gonna get the big bonanza, lol, do not. IS she that good on a national level? If not then she might want to rethink. Georgia Georgia This is very true, but I'm not sure its a place to debate with someone. My son plays baseball, and I basically bite my tongue when I hear parents talk about their sons going on and being recruited. So far no one has surprised me except that somehow they think it a big deal that their son has signed up to play on a community college team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I don't think she makes the Top 10 list of players to watch in our state, but she is quite good and could improve with another year or two of playing. I don't mind letting her mind think such a thing IF she is right. I'm concerned if she puts all of her eggs in any particular basket if she's not likely to be right... and NOW is the time to change thoughts IF appropriate. What is the Hive's experience? Can a 1700 score fit a 2200+ school if sports are part of the picture as long as the coach is sure s/he wants you? Can it vary by the school? Creekland, what is the student's national ranking? Does the student know what the recruitment time frame is for her sport? (We have seen some of my kids' friends officially commit the beginning of junior year, while I have read that in some sports, kids commit sophomore year.) Has the student been fielding phone calls from coaches the past few months? Have the coaches told her that her SAT score is good enough? The test scores needed can vary depending both on the school and the athlete's national ranking. The Ivy league has an Academic Index. The Academic Index is based on a student's SAT and SAT II scores. HYP have a higher Academic Index requirement than the other Ivies. There is a team average Academic Index that must be met, and an individual baseline Academic Index that must also be met. The higher an athletes national ranking, the more leeway there is in the AI that the athlete needs. The parents on College Confidential who have had kids go through the process for an Ivy recommend that an athletic recruit have 700's across the board on the standardized tests. The other Div I schools do not have an academic index that the students must meet. My boys have a friend who is attending a highly selective non-Ivy Div I school. The friend told my boys that he needed to get his ACT score up to a 17 (which he did) in order to be recruited at his school. This athlete was ranked in the top 5 nationally in his sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Creekland, what is the student's national ranking? I did not ask at all about any ranking. Has the student been fielding phone calls from coaches the past few months? Yes. From my understanding, the teams are good in their sport, but not top nationally. I've no idea how they stand in their specific conference. The subject came up just in reference to SAT tutoring. I was talking about it with another student and student A mentioned she didn't have to worry about it because... Since she's a junior she'll have some time to change her mind should this season not go well. From what it sounds like, she could know where she is going (or if it doesn't work out) early enough. She did mention more than one school (all good schools - hence my concern - had I heard a safety for those scores, I wouldn't have worried). Only one was Ivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Since she's a junior she'll have some time to change her mind should this season not go well. From what it sounds like, she could know where she is going (or if it doesn't work out) early enough. She did mention more than one school (all good schools - hence my concern - had I heard a safety for those scores, I wouldn't have worried). Only one was Ivy. If the student is interested in attending the Ivy league school, she should have a conversation with the coach about what SAT score she would need as the score she has now does seem low for an Ivy. She will also need SAT II scores. If she is a high recruit going Div I, she will know where she is going much earlier than non-athletes. The vast majority of athletic recruits in my kids' sport begin announcing in July between junior and senior year. I have been following the announcements this year, and every single recruit ranked in the top 60 nationally has already committed, and a number of those recruits have committed to an Ivy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Thanks for the info! I like adding to my knowledge bank - even if for "rare" things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCMom Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 If the student is interested in attending the Ivy league school, she should have a conversation with the coach about what SAT score she would need as the score she has now does seem low for an Ivy. She will also need SAT II scores. If she is a high recruit going Div I, she will know where she is going much earlier than non-athletes. The vast majority of athletic recruits in my kids' sport begin announcing in July between junior and senior year. I have been following the announcements this year, and every single recruit ranked in the top 60 nationally has already committed, and a number of those recruits have committed to an Ivy. This is NOT true in my dd's sport and as far as I know per NCAA regs, you can ONLY sign a National Letter of Intent at certain times during your senior year. All other commitments are verbal and as such are not contracts and are not binding. Maybe the commitments are different for other sports? In our area we have many top 20 athletes in dd's sport, including the #1 breast-stroker (Jr Nationals) in the country, currently uncommited. No one committed verbally before this school year. DD also knows the number 2 breast-stroker; she just verbally committed this week. We also know the junior who is the number 2 recruit in the country in the sport and she has not committed (though I think she will gap year for Olympic training, lol). But the bottom line is that the athlete in the OP's post should be contacting coaches NOW, right now, at the schools she listed, to be sure that she is what they are looking for. The gal I mentioned earlier was limited by her grades and scores as both Harvard and Stanford are top 20 in the sport, but she was not a fit academically and there were plenty of top 20's who were... Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 This is NOT true in my dd's sport and as far as I know per NCAA regs, you can ONLY sign a National Letter of Intent at certain times during your senior year. All other commitments are verbal and as such are not contracts and are not binding. Maybe the commitments are different for other sports? From what I have been told by families that I know personally that have already gone through the process with top-ranked athletes, the signing of the National Letter of Intent is simply a formality. The Ivy's issue Likely Letters to athletes in all sports before the National Letter of Intents are signed, that while not technically binding, are treated as such by both the school and the player. I don't know if the other Div I colleges offer something similar to a likely letter, but I personally know many kids who have officially announced in July before the start of their senior year (or earlier in a handful of cases) their commitments to a Div I school and then have a signing party a few months later when they sign the National Letter of Intent. Based on the posts on College Confidential, this situation is not unique to my kids' sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 But the bottom line is that the athlete in the OP's post should be contacting coaches NOW, right now, at the schools she listed, to be sure that she is what they are looking for. Georgia If I understood her correctly (which I think I did), the coaches have been contacting her and discussing things. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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