Experiences in Chemistry by Kathleen Julicher (Castle Heights Press)???

[Robin in DFW]

ETA...this is my second try at getting help...please...I'm really struggling with this...to the point of not being able to sleep.

 

I am needing some quick and serious help regarding our Chemistry Lab unit.  Ds has completed the text portion of Chemistry (and a few simple labs from text) and we want to do a Labs Unit for the next 6 weeks or so.

 

I have Experiences in Chemistry.  It is a lab instruction manual with a separate student lab workbook.  The labs are not difficult, but do get the job done.  I have all the chemicals, glassware and equipment needed to do full-scale labs for this book.

 

I also have the standard kit from The Home Scientist (Bob Thompson).  I printed out the free pdf and have been reading through it.  This kit uses small amounts of chemicals with limited equipment.

 

I guess I am just plain stupid because I don't really understand any of the information in the standard kit guide or remember any of it. 

 

My dd just had a summer-long Chemistry course with lab at college and she said the labs look like what she did...even harder.

 

I appreciate the standard kit being so technical, but it doesn't do me any good if I can't help my student.  I am not even remotely experienced in Chemistry topics and have no idea what is necessary...or not...and what is typical of a high school level lab.

 

The standard kit seems way over the top to me.  The Experiences in Chemistry seems simplistic in comparison, but is probably more accurate in terms of high school lab...at least at schools.

 

I'm afraid the standard kit will be too hard and frustrating, but afraid the other will not be challenging enough.  I have tried to have my son decide, but...well...he's 16...no further explanation needed.

 

I need to know if ANYONE has used the Castle Heights Press Experiences in Chemistry program and if it provided a decent lab experience?

 

I'm sure The Home Scientist kit is awesome for some, but it seems so difficult...it's like a foreign language.

 

 

 

 

 

[Julie of KY]

Ideally, whatever you decide, your son will have a mentor that can help explain the chemistry principles to him. If he's just going through the motions of doing a lab, and maybe even doing some cool reactions, but doesn't understand the chemistry, then it is not very effective.

Good luck with your decision. I would look for someone that can help mentor your son along.

... replied about the Home Scientist kit in your other thread.

[Robin in DFW]

He has completed the textbook portion of Chemistry and has a good understanding of chemistry principles.

 

For us, Chemistry is a challenge.  My husband is a mechanical engineer...FAR from Chemistry.  I never had the opportunity to attend college so I don't have college experience with science. 

 

We are not in a position at this time to hire someone to help or to enroll him in a class.  Paying for services is the only way to get help in our area.

 

I've been looking over past threads and see that many people do not even have their students tackle Chemistry labs and their kids are fine.  My son likes science and I'm trying to offer him  more than just the textbook version of Chemistry.

 

I want my son to have some exposure to Chemistry labs, not mastery of all topics.  That's better left for college, imo.

 

I hope someone who has used Experiences in Chemistry (I know there are people out there...I heard about this program on these boards) will respond.  I'd really like to hear if this proved adequate for your college-bound student.

 

Thanks.

 

ETA:  My daughter used the same high school textbook my son just finished...she did not do a lab component for Chemistry.  She took Chemistry for science majors (and lab) over the summer and received a high B...not bad for a kid who did not do chem lab at home.  She did do Bio lab and Physics lab.  Plus, her instructor left half way through the course to have a baby and she ended up with different instructors for lecture AND lab...so no coordination at all. 

[Julie in MN]

I have the books, haven't used them as far as I remember (if we did use any, it wasn't much).  However,  I did use Experiences in Biology with my dd and a little bit with my ds, and since you don't have many responses, I'll share on that.  I know the Julicher materials used to be much more commonly used, but they seem to be replaced these days. 

 

I felt it produced a solid lab.  I'd say the labs we did required some of the typical lab stuff, did real microscope viewing of real specimens, taught observation & drawing what she saw, some hands-on use of things like a classification system, thorough dissections, etc.  I would expect Chemistry would be similar.  My general expectation, based on our Biology experience, would be:

- typical labs

- real equipment used

- real lab reporting

- do-able, realistic

- more labs than you'd ever need to do

 

My son just finished Spectrum Chemistry and it was so nice to have all of the labs prepared, all equipment there, everything scheduled out in a certain order, etc. With Julicher materials, you have to do a little more planning of what you will do and what you will need.  Of course, in any labs there are things that can't be planned -- things that don't work, things that take much longer (or shorter) than usual, etc. -- but I do appreciate a firm schedule like Spectrum :)

 

As someone who always avoided textbooky science, I applaud you for making sure to get some of these labs in, not only as prep for college labs, but as prep for understanding chemistry at a deeper level.  To me the biggest thing is to get it in their minds (and bodies) that these chemical reactions are real changes that really happen around us (not just in the lab), changing even "unchangeable" properties such as color and heat, and it's not the old "mixing colors on the color wheel" or "combined temperatures," but true changing to something new, and changing back again to the original.  Yes, kids can read about this in a book, but there is something different that happens when we really see it, at least at our house.  (It also has a side effect of understanding our world better -- my common example is laundry detergent properties.)  And this leads to really absorbing the unique identities of elements and compounds and such, as not just lists of numbers but real things we are acquainted with.

 

Oh, and sometimes I had a question and the Julichers did answer emails.  I recall sometimes feeling like their lab books were written by co-op teachers who (a ) had a group and (b ) knew what they were talking about.  But again, they answered emails, so I can't complain.

 

Julie

[Dicentra]

Robin,

 

I posted some of my thoughts on labs in chemistry over in the Chem Social group.  I'll copy and paste them here:

 

Why do we do labs in high school chemistry?  In my opinion, for 4 reasons:

1. To learn and practice certain wet lab skills

2. To become familiar with qualitative and/or quantitative analysis techniques

3. To benefit hands-on or visual learners by giving them an appropriate “hook†to hang information on or to refer back to

4. To help clarify concepts.

 

I’ll say right off the bat that I believe reasons 1, 2, and 3 are valid but I don’t think reason 4 is a valid one.  I am also fully open to disagreement and ridicule. :D

 

We need to look at where our students plan on ending up.  If the student will never again take chemistry or anything related to chemistry and does not benefit from hands-on experiences (is not a hands-on learner), I do not believe there is any benefit in doing labs in a high school chemistry program (ducking rotten vegetables and fruit now).  From my experience, most chemistry labs at the high school level actually tend to confuse the student rather than clarify any concepts for them.  Chemistry happens on two levels: the macroscopic level and the atomic level.  All labs are, by necessity, performed on the macroscopic level.  (It would be pretty difficult to ask students to combine a few atoms of this with a few atoms of that and then observe. ïŠ)  Unfortunately, it isn’t the macroscopic level that students need help in understanding – it’s the atomic level.  And, also unfortunately, what a student observes about a particular reaction on the macroscopic level often does not relate easily to what is actually going on at the atomic level.  Equilibrium is one concept that comes to mind that I find students have a dickens of a time understanding.  At the macroscopic level, reactions will seem to proceed and then “stop†– it looks as though nothing further is happening.  The problem is that something IS still happening – the reaction is not stopped but has come to equilibrium which means the forward and reverse rates are now equal – but it looks as though the reaction has truly “stoppedâ€.  There may be some exceptions but I’ve never had a student who came out of an equilibrium lab with a better understanding of the concept of equilibrium.  The only hands-on activity (and it’s not even worthy of being called a lab) that I’ve ever seen help students understand this concept is the one involving two plastic tubs, water, two cups, and two students (if you want me to elaborate further on this, I can – just ask :)).

 

If a student is going on in chemistry or any other field related to chemistry or that requires wet lab work, then there is definite benefit in the student doing labs.  Not to help clarify concepts but to give them the practice and experience in using lab equipment and doing specific lab tasks (safety procedures, accurately massing (weighing) out substances, accurately measuring liquid volumes, knowing which measuring devices are appropriate in which situations, titrations, making up and diluting solutions, experience with the Bunsen burner, experience handling chemicals safely so they aren’t terrified of them in future, etc.).  This is even true for students who are not hands-on learners.  For students that are hands-on learners, there is a double benefit.

 

In Julie’s example, it’s neat that the stoichiometry lab reflects the predicted result of the stoichiometry calculations but I don’t know if that helps clarify stoichiometry for the students or not.  Like I said before, it may help some but I’ve not run across many, if any.

 

In Ontario, we have a chem course in Grade 12 that is meant for students who are going on into the trades.  It has a little math but one of its main focuses is qualitative analysis techniques.  These are the kind of techniques used in drug labs and the like – a substance comes in, a technician has a prescribed series of reagents to test the substance with , and results are recorded (i.e. the substance burned red or the substance turned blue with this reagent and then clear with this one, etc.).  By comparing the results with a database, the technician can then determine what the substance is.  You can see, though, that the technician doesn’t really need to understand the chemistry behind each of these reactions at the atomic level.  If there is a problem, the technician will go to the head of the lab, who is probably a chemist with at least a Master’s degree in chemistry, and the lab head will help work out the problem.  Students that are headed in this kind of direction, the technician direction, should definitely have as much wet lab experience as they can get.  There will certainly be specific training for them at the trade school level and also on the job but a high school lab experience can give them a bit more practice with equipment, chemicals, and techniques.

 

In conclusion, then, I’d say that:

 

1. If a student is NOT going on in chemistry or anything related to chemistry and is NOT a hands-on learner, there probably isn’t much benefit in doing high school chem labs.  (See #4 below for an exception.)

2. If a student is NOT going on in chemistry or anything related to chemistry and IS a hands-on learner, then labs will be of some benefit.  That benefit could be negated, though, if the labs just end up confusing the student rather than clarifying concepts.  It’s a tricky line to walk.

3. If a student IS going on in chemistry or anything related to chemistry, then absolutely try to give them the best wet lab experience you can.

4. If your state/province requires lab time in order to label the course “high school chemistry†on a transcript or if the college/university your student is applying to requires a lab component, then you’re stuck.  You’d better include labs. :)

 

I know - it's long. :D  But I hope it gets my main point across - if a student is NOT going on in chemistry or anything related to chemistry and is NOT a hands-on learner, there probably isn't much benefit in doing high school chem labs (unless your province/state/country requires it).  Don't sweat your program and definitely don't lose sleep over it.

 

If your student is going on in chemistry, then you're going to want to give him/her the best lab experience you can.  I don't have experience or knowledge of the program you're referencing but it sounds like Julie has given you a good run-down.  If it covers basic wet lab skills, then it's fine.  Here's a list of some basic wet lab skills that should be covered in high school if a student is going on in chem:

 

*use of graduated cylinders

*use of volumetric pipets

*use of an electronic balance (taring)

*lighting and use of a Bunsen burner

*testing for hydrogen, oxygen, and carbon dioxide gas

*use of a ring stand setup for heating beakers over a Bunsen burner

*use of volumetric flasks

*preparation of a solution from a solid solute

*preparation of a solution by dilution

*use of a funnel and filter paper

*gravimetric analysis

*use of burets for titration

*how to properly heat a test tube over a flame

*grinding solids with a mortar and pestle

*calibrating and using a pH meter (optional)

 

Hope that helps!  Feel free to PM me about anything else. :)

 

[Robin in DFW]

Okay! Thanks so much for this great breakdown.

 

Julie in MN---I actually have all the supplies for the Experiences in Chemistry. Since my son has already done the "bookwork" part of Chemistry, we are now going to just do labwork. We will reference his text as needed to clarify or reinforce a concept. So...no aligning labs other than looking up the occasional concept or definition or something.

 

Dicentra---your wonderful explanation helps me see the value in doing labs with my son even if they are not of the rocket science caliber. I think the labs in the Experiences in Chemistry program are probably spot on for high school (you can find this program by searching for Castle Heights Press...they have a blog now and only sell their stuff as ebooks---Home Science Tools used to sell their products and kits). I believe the science is sound and understandable AND realistic to do at home. As much as I appreciate The Home Scientist products, they are over my head and would probably only cause confusion. I want my son to enjoy his lab experience AND understand the chemistry, but not be so bogged down by excessive calculations and explanations that he gets frustrated and confused.

 

You all have been most helpful.