# Having trouble remembering/applying basic multiplication and division

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My 5th grader somehow forgot how to do everything this year. We need some real help, or some great games to reinforce facts. He can't seem to do simple multiplication and division easily, which is in turn ruining everything with fractions. Any great apps for practice? Programs? Computer games? As it is, despite working on MM5 at the moment I'm going to have him to do TT6 instead of TT7, so he has kind of a repeat year to solidify things before moving forward. I don't want him lost like this, it is very frustrating. Especially because somehow if I pull out the flashcards for multiplication, he really seems to know most of the facts. I don't get it. He does not seem able to apply it to reducing fractions, finding common denominators, etc.

ETA We started the year with MUS and LOF, moved to just LOF (where he actually was getting most things correct), then to MM5 for decimals because I already had it. He had trouble with it but made it through, and I decided to have him work on fractions again in MM5 because of a few areas I felt he could use more work. He used MUS for Gamma and Delta. Before those years we used RIghtstart, and that was truly when he thrived.

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Maybe a new thread title will help? :lurk5:

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Have you tried Quarter Mile Math?

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We're having similar problems. I decided not to let it hold up progress on further math concepts. She does her math work with a multiplication chart on her desk. She's able to use it to find specific facts, factors, products, etc. It's removed the pressure and is allowing her to progress.

Is that something that might help? Just a reference sheet to relieve the pressure of memory?

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Is it just memorizing basic facts? If so you might want to try xtramath.com. You can set it to just do multiplication and division. It takes about 5 minutes a day and at least for my son, it works.

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Thanks for the ideas.

I'm not sure it's just memorizing them? I pull out the multiplication flash cards and he seems to know the majority of them quickly. But applying that to a fraction is torture. He doesn't "see" what divides into the numbers. Maybe we need to do division flashcards even more? Maybe his brain isn't flipping the operations well? He did ok with MUS last year, at the time (and now) and it seemed his biggest problem was neatness and lining up the numbers properly in long division and multiplication. That said, he didn't remember how to do long division at all this year. It's like his brain was left in 4th grade.

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• 3 weeks later...

I'm bumping this back up bc I'm really at a loss. I'm not sure how to get through to this kid. He can't remember how to do long multiplication or division. I just don't know what to do. I own MM and he's working through fractions again right now. He doesn't get half of it.

If I told you he excelled brilliantly with RS B, what does that tell us about how he needs to learn? And what I should use? I mean should I get C again (we dropped it midway bc I didn't like parts of it) and work through things at a faster pace? Get transitions and see where he places after that? I just don't want him to struggle with math like I did. A couple years ago I would have told you he was a mathy kid!!!

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You might want to look at montessori methods for teaching long division and multiplication. They do it first with manipulatives (up to thousands blocks/cubes). It might help him realize what is going on place value wise. Googling might yield some results. Right Start probably teaches it at some level that way too (though not sure). They may have a math game. If I remember right RS is loosely montessori based. Then you can transition from manipulatives to paper.

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I have multiplication and division Wrap Up's for sale. They come with cd's so he can get the audio as well as tactile. Maybe try to beat his own times? Good for riding in the car or messing around with while waiting for something. See this page if interested: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/classifieds/item/5059-fs-numerous-math-books-games-manipulatives/

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Have the same problem with dd11 in Grade 5. Will try the suggestions listed. Frustrating isn't it!?! :gnorsi:

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Sorry yet another duplicate post :lurk5:

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Sorry duplicate post.

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Is there a reason why you did not continue with MUS for fractions? Maybe it is the way MM explains things that he is not getting.

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We just finished ds9's math book and spent a week with Let's Play Math's conversational How to Conquer the multiplication tables. None of the concepts were new, but spending the time totally focused on them helped a lot.

http://letsplaymath.net/2011/08/30/how-to-conquer-the-times-table-part-1/

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using simple pictures and rhymes seems to work for many children. Like 8x8 go out the sticky door 8x8 = 64. ( The eights are bees going out their honey hive). Students can make up their own or use the Pictures, rhymes, & songs that are found in products such as "Times to Remember, the Fun and Easy Way to Memorize the Multiplication Tablesâ€ A mulitsensory approach works best for memorization.

They are giving away FREE musical Ebooks (reg. \$7.99) on their website at www.TheTimesTable.com

hope this helps!

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Thanks for the ideas.

I'm not sure it's just memorizing them? I pull out the multiplication flash cards and he seems to know the majority of them quickly. But applying that to a fraction is torture. He doesn't "see" what divides into the numbers. Maybe we need to do division flashcards even more? Maybe his brain isn't flipping the operations well? He did ok with MUS last year, at the time (and now) and it seemed his biggest problem was neatness and lining up the numbers properly in long division and multiplication. That said, he didn't remember how to do long division at all this year. It's like his brain was left in 4th grade.

I know what you mean !!!! I have tried everything as well. I am currently having him do the Key to fraction workbook again and I am noticing a huge difference. I feel like these books work for him. Previously,I have done the C rods, Montessori division tray, flash cards, games etc...Haha. For us, I also dumped the main Singapore curriculum and am now sticking to the Key to Series and supplemental Singapore books ( like mental math, word problems, and challenge). He is going to be 11 by the way. He also always had issues with basic math facts as well. I am always googling reasons or ideas. LOL. One thing I read was he might need to be the type to see the answer with the flash card. Not just a blank space. I started doing that. I was actually not even into flash cards, but just started those after trying all the hands on options. It's funny as he is a natural reader, but just not natural at math. My daughter is just the opposite of him though !!! Hang in there...both of you :)

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