Why is the public school system failing; looking for statistics/personal testimony

[didadeewiththree]

Well, you asked. If I heard something like this IRL, I would have a very negative reaction. I would ask who made you the expert on ps "failure" statistics? What is your expertise in this area that should make me listen to you? Since you are just now researching your facts, it sounds as though this info did not play a big role in your decision to hs.

 

Now, on the other hand, if you told me about your own hs journey, I would listen raptly, because your talk would be authentic. Your personal testimony might bring me to consider hs as an option.

 

I'd like to know why you hs, without hearing 'statistics' and 'proof.' Do your kids have more time to play? More family time? Get to go outdoors? If you hs for religious reasons, say so, but add that many hsers do not. Tell how you customize programs for your own dc's learning styles. Talk about what you know best -- your family hs. Talk about what a typical day is like. Tell me about your challenges and rewards.

 

You could debunk a few hs myths if you want -- not everyone wears denim jumpers....

 

You could talk about special opportunities in your area -- a daytime class at a nature center, a hs sports league, etc. Sharing the knowledge that you have accumulated over the years would be much more persuasive to me than a statistic laden diatribe.

 

Part of my assignment includes sharing up front why I am an "expert"on this. I was just going to briefly share that this is my first year homeschooling after seeing how years of public school time could be better spent haing the kids stay at home being taught by me.

 

I was actually going to school to possibly be a teacher, but a part of me really didnt want to be a classroom teacher. I was thinking smaller; I couldnt fathom controlling a group of kids, of course I know they show you how, but I wasnt there yet in school. So I kept plugging away with gen eds and spending time away from my kids, but my heart never wanted to stop being a stay at home mom, but I knew I wanted something more.

 

I love that we get to learn together, siblings get to be together, forming lasting relationships for the future, and the fact that I can give them one on one attention, especially since my child are not attention type seekers, they are very quiet in the classroom(not always for me, but for their teachers:)

 

I have defended our public school for years to homeschoolers I know and continue to so so. My son even goes there every Wed afternoon to participate in their Braille club. It's a good school and I wouldnt hesitate to send any of my children back there if I felt it was in their best interest.

 

These statistics I have all read and know about, I just needed to compile the best ideas that would work for my speech.

 

Gota go till the afternoon, but thanks for all the ideas thus far...Ive made some progress!

[didadeewiththree]

Great points. Whenever someone asks me why I homeschool and what that is like I never mention anything about the local schools. Even though I don't like them personally, not for one second do I feel as if a parent is making a bad choice by sending their child there. Homeschooling is not for everyone. I guess my only goal would be to say that it is a legitimate choice that can work out very well. Bashing something that the majority of people are going to utilize or have utilized is probably not going to sell anyone on anything.

 

I agree; maybe that is why this assignment has been hard for me, because I do not homeschool because of any reason the public school is failing. Individualizing student curriculum, one on one attention, etc, are just things they cannot do, but I dont blame them for not being able to. That would be expensive!

 

My teacher specifically wants to hear some statistics on public school's failure, which is hard for me because I don't want to bash. I just want at least four statistics that make homeschooling look good opposed to public schools. And Im going to bring it home for them with personal testimony on how its worked so far for me. I have to also mention the opposition, who might say that we are curbing real school to read the bible all day, or we want to shelter, socialization, etc and then provide a statistic on why that really isnt true, like some statistic on how homeschoolers are more likely to take extra classes...

 

I also need to work on an attention getter...

 

(oh Im late now..)

 

I like the one mentioned abt how homeschoolers don't actually wear denim jumpers:)

[msjones]

My husband and I are both public school teachers. I wouldn't go at it from the "why schools are failing" approach. That's painting with a really broad brush.

 

Instead, think about what works better with homeschooling. My husband and I often talk with other ps teachers about why we homeschool. No one can argue with our main reason: all of the best practices for teaching are easiest to implement in a small, personalized setting.

 

Over and over teachers are told to "get to know your students" and "adapt the curriculum to suit your particular group" and "student learn best when they are not stressed" and "personalize your teaching" and "discover your students' interests" etc. etc. etc.

 

It's all excellent advice, and most teachers truly try to do these things. But there are just too darn many kids in our classes, too many required topics to cover, and too little time to do all of those lovely, personalized things.

 

All of them can be accomplished much more easily in a homeschool setting. No ps teacher with whome I've spoken about homeschooling has ever denied this.

[Alessandra]

Part of my assignment includes sharing up front why I am an "expert"on this. I was just going to briefly share that this is my first year homeschooling after seeing how years of public school time could be better spent haing the kids stay at home being taught by me.

 

To my way of thinking, you would qualify as 'expert' because you are living a hs life. Presumably you have researched choices, evaluated options, seen from experience what did & did not work. I would say that is plenty of expertise for a short talk.

 

I agree; maybe that is why this assignment has been hard for me, because I do not homeschool because of any reason the public school is failing. Individualizing student curriculum, one on one attention, etc, are just things they cannot do, but I dont blame them for not being able to. That would be expensive!

 

My teacher specifically wants to hear some statistics on public school's failure, which is hard for me because I don't want to bash. I just want at least four statistics that make homeschooling look good opposed to public schools. And Im going to bring it home for them with personal testimony on how its worked so far for me. I have to also mention the opposition, who might say that we are curbing real school to read the bible all day, or we want to shelter, socialization, etc and then provide a statistic on why that really isnt true, like some statistic on how homeschoolers are more likely to take extra classes...

 

I also need to work on an attention getter...

 

(oh Im late now..)

 

I like the one mentioned abt how homeschoolers don't actually wear denim jumpers:)

 

Well, for an attention getter, you could start by saying something about the image many people have of hsers. Are they all like the Duggars with giant families? Do all hsers believe that a wife is created to be a 'helpmeet,' whatever that is? Do all hsers do math by adding the number of sheep Jacob has + the sheep Esau has? Not to mention the denim. You could let on that there are high heel wearing atheist hsers with liberal views and small families.

 

I would still avoid doing statistics in a direct way. But you could say something about hsers who scour the internet for every school shooting, who collect stastiscs like _____ and _______ and ______ and _____ and ______. But then you could add what I bolded above -- that you do not hs because of statistics. That is a credible & authentic statement that I think people could relate to -- good communication. So you could include statistics without sounding like a know-it-all.

 

I remember a talk SWB gave at Princeton. She said that she had gone to Liberty University -- "It seemed like a wise choice at the time." [i hope I'm quoting correctly.] The audience seemed to love that statement. So in a roundabout way, she acknowledged that LU had some faults without actually being too critical. Could approach statistics in a similar sort of roundabout way, so you do the assignment, but don't preach?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Alessandra

[MomatHWTK]

List your positives for homeschooling then find the statistic that contrasts them from ps. If a positive is one on one teaching, then your ps statistic should be on average class size and the costs of providing 1 on 1 services.

[didadeewiththree]

To my way of thinking, you would qualify as 'expert' because you are living a hs life. Presumably you have researched choices, evaluated options, seen from experience what did & did not work. I would say that is plenty of expertise for a short talk.

 

 

 

Well, for an attention getter, you could start by saying something about the image many people have of hsers. Are they all like the Duggars with giant families? Do all hsers believe that a wife is created to be a 'helpmeet,' whatever that is? Do all hsers do math by adding the number of sheep Jacob has + the sheep Esau has? Not to mention the denim. You could let on that there are high heel wearing atheist hsers with liberal views and small families.

 

I would still avoid doing statistics in a direct way. But you could say something about hsers who scour the internet for every school shooting, who collect stastiscs like _____ and _______ and ______ and _____ and ______. But then you could add what I bolded above -- that you do not hs because of statistics. That is a credible & authentic statement that I think people could relate to -- good communication. So you could include statistics without sounding like a know-it-all.

 

I remember a talk SWB gave at Princeton. She said that she had gone to Liberty University -- "It seemed like a wise choice at the time." [i hope I'm quoting correctly.] The audience seemed to love that statement. So in a roundabout way, she acknowledged that LU had some faults without actually being too critical. Could approach statistics in a similar sort of roundabout way, so you do the assignment, but don't preach?

 

Well, the funny thing is, I went and did a google search on homeschoolers and thought my attention getter could be a picture of the Duggers! Then I decided that postin pics of my own family might be good, so Ill probably add that to the slide.

 

So it would be an icebreaker to have a pic of the Duggars huh?

 

I tried looking up homeschooling denim and didnt get any good, funny pics.

 

And yes, I will probably bring up all the good things homeschooling can do for family, academics, and for the child as an individual,and then statistics to support that. I even have a chart that shows average homeschooling test scores vs public schools...I dont plan on being too critical because these are not things that sold me on homeschooling, although they are nice to hear I suppose.

 

But my testimony will probably be the key to my success. I will add that statistics did not make or break my decision, but what Ive seen in my children is whats important to me.(Ohh...good ending)

[Alessandra]

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Edited April 25, 2012 by Alessandra

[Alessandra]

Well, the funny thing is, I went and did a google search on homeschoolers and thought my attention getter could be a picture of the Duggers! Then I decided that postin pics of my own family might be good, so Ill probably add that to the slide.

 

So it would be an icebreaker to have a pic of the Duggars huh?

 

I tried looking up homeschooling denim and didnt get any good, funny pics.

 

And yes, I will probably bring up all the good things homeschooling can do for family, academics, and for the child as an individual,and then statistics to support that. I even have a chart that shows average homeschooling test scores vs public schools...I dont plan on being too critical because these are not things that sold me on homeschooling, although they are nice to hear I suppose.

 

But my testimony will probably be the key to my success. I will add that statistics did not make or break my decision, but what Ive seen in my children is whats important to me.(Ohh...good ending)

 

Perfect ending!

 

try this image

 

[i deleted the link, because it is a perfectly nice, recognizable family, even if dress is very conservative.]

Edited April 26, 2012 by Alessandra

[didadeewiththree]

Perfect ending!

 

try this image

 

 

 

 

No way!!:lol: Thats the one I really thought abt using but I felt that I couldnt do that to this woman and her nice looking kids! I thought maybe I needed one that's a little more less personal.(like I know her, right?)

 

But maybe I could...Ill think abt it.

 

I just thought that was too funny that I pulled up and pondered abt the same one!

Edited April 26, 2012 by neenee7

[Alessandra]

No way!!:lol: Thats the one I really thought abt using but I felt that I couldnt do that to this woman and her nice looking kids! I thought maybe I needed one that's a little more less personal.(like I know her, right?)

 

But maybe I could...Ill think abt it.

 

I just thought that was too funny that I pulled up and pondered abt the same one!

 

Actually, I agree with you. What if it turns out to be someone from here? I'm deleting link on my last post.

[Catherine]

I think your best option at this point, given that you are stuck with the topic you note, is to choose one situation, or one child, or one subject (math comes to mind) to use to highlight the differences.

[inmyopinion]

This is my persuasive speech assignment based on the motivated sequence pattern which requires

1. an attention step

2. a need step that fully explains the nature of the problem

3. a satisfactory step that explains how the proposal solves the problem in a satisfactory manner

4. a visualization step that provides a personal application of the proposal

5. an action appeal step that emphasizes the specific direction that listeners' action should take.

 

My biggest problem has been identifying the problem and then addressing the solution.

 

Here is my first sample outline:

 

Topic: Home schooling verses public school

General Goal: To persuade

Specific Goal: I would like my audience to fully understand how home schooling can be superior to public school and that anyone can do it if they want to.

Thesis Statement: By the end of this speech you will understand the in and outs of homeschooling and discover how you can educate your child in life without the negative effects of compulsory school.

The problem is that today’s children are not getting a proper education because of the negative effects in schools including exposure to drugs, promiscuous sex, bullying, and a slew of other factors. Low test scores and frequently failing schools across the nation show us that intervention is necessary and that it is time to take matters into our own hands.

Homeschooling benefits by including smaller class sizes, which provide more individualized instruction, and more academic time spent on the core subjects. The proof is that homeschoolers are frequently performing better on standardized tests than their public school peers.

I have not read all the way down yet, but I have spoken to some "non-homeschool" groups in the past few months and I think you will be more successful if you make it "Homeschooling is a viable educational oppurtunity" type of arguement. This way you highlight the positive, but you can bring in some of the areas in which a public or ptivate school may not meet a child's needs, such as special needs, a health issue, religious reasons, and such. I think, overall, when we as homeschoolers emphasize "schooling" choices, we do not alienate an audience. More like a "You can do it and be successful, if you choose to!" attitude. I always make a point of saying that I am for choice as well as a desire that we have great public and private schools as well as great homeschool oppurtunities.

[Catherine]

At the turn of the 20th century, less than one third of students attended high school.

[didadeewiththree]

You've left out the big point that people always use about charters and private school - homeschool doesn't have to include everyone. The population is completely different from public school. PS has many nonEnglish speakers that have the same reading level expectations as native english speakers. PS has, on a percentage basis, more children whose parents don't have an education at all and more students with special education needs. rTi and sped placements mean these children do get indivualized instruction, but their LDs mean that they can't progress as fast as nonLD children. That means PS will always have lower test scores than a population that has less hard to educate students. You can get your local statistics from your school district. All of this is public info.

 

I would not bother with including 'promiscuous sex' and 'exposure to drugs' as those are community issues. You'll also have some people wondering if you're are trying to say home schooling equals celibacy...let's face it, sex is happening in the home somewhere in many homeschool students' homes and the kiddos will become aware at some time. The school and community have to work together to keep crime off campus. We have had no sex or drug use in the classroom that has affected learning of the rest of the class - police or security pick these unengaged children up in other locations. The sex/drug use is a symptom of other issues and exist whether the child is on homebound instruction, or in another alternative setting.

 

I agree with you abt the community issues not being just a ps thing. Im going to focus more on academics, individualized education, and benefits(based on my experience and personal testimony) of homeschooling as an alternative, and perhaps the social scene being too important in a youngster's life, getting in the way of academics.

 

Thank you for your suggestions, not only you, but to everyone. Wish me luck today and Ill let you know how it went:)

[didadeewiththree]

Speech went well...it was fun researching the No Child Left Behind Act and also our state information. Thanks everyone for your tips, personal testimony, and help. Here is my outline below. Im not including my powerpoint because I put personal pic on there, but it is described below.

 

It was funny too, because a girl a few speeched ahead of me did her speech on public school vs homeschool, and included benfits such as transportation, meal cooked for the kids, and income gained from parent being at work, and that the No child left behind act would insure that kids wouldnt be left behind. Then I get up there and say how I feel The No chils left behind act isnt working based on my state of MO's numbers/.It was funny!

Monroe’s Motivated Sequence and Persuasion

Outline Format

I. Introduction

Attention:

A. Attention-Getting Device-(Slide #1 Pic of Duggars) Think abt “homeschoolers†term denim jumpers, 12 kids, etc, surprisingly, (over 2 million homeschoolers, (Home School Legal Defense Association)

B. Proposition (Thesis Statement) – Today I want to challenge you to realize there’s an alternative to public school, homeschooling

C. Credibility-1st yr homeschooling after ps

D. Preview-(Slide #2 homeschooling arm wrestling w/ps schooler from collegehome.com)Today #1 How public schools are failing #2 Alternate choice, home school, #3 Benefits received from homeschooling

Transition Statement- need for parental involvement, take charge of child’s education, reclaim responsibility

II. Body

A. Problem- Main Point #1- How public schools are failing

1. (Slide #3)No Child Left Behind 2001, not working, teach to the test, St Louis schools still cannot pass, losing funding

(according to Albert Duncan, Wash Uni of STL Mag)

(according to Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education)

Problem is not money-$8,000+ per pupil

a. Large classroom

b. Too little individualization

c. Lack of real life scenarios, siblings, age segregation, social scene, unlike any situation

2. Lack of parental involvement, washed hands

3. (Slide #4)Academics

a. Test scores

b. Drop outs(1/3 of nation do not graduate highschool) (According to study by Edu test service written by Paul E. Barton)

c. Focus not on school, social scene(1/3 surveyed goof off, 2/3 cheat on test) 40%disengaged(according to Laurence Steinberg, author of Beyond the Classroom)

Transition Statement-Too many parents have lost their ability to direct child’s education, overpowering of school culture, peer culture, media driven culture

B. Solution- Main Point #2 Home school as alternative solution

1. Allows one on one attention

2. Studies show parents involved equals student success

3. Don’t need degree, anyone can

4. Opposition: Socialization, homeschoolers are involved in more actitivites oftentimes because of more time

Transition Statement- student success proven when parent is involved

C. Visualization- Main Point #3 – If we home school or after school…the future

(Slides 5,6,7 familt pics during schooltime)Personal Testimony

1. family learning, growing

2. sibling interaction

3. choice of curriculum, resources, outsource

4. schedule, no time wasted, xtra activities, fieldtrips

5. time to develop interests yr round schooling option

6. our worldview, goals to children

Transition Statement-

III. Conclusion

A. Summarize-parents need to be #1 source of student support, even if not homeschooling

B. Re-state Proposition-You can home school, support groups

D. (Slide#8) Bang! Quote

Works Cited

 

Barton, Paul E. Educational Testing Service. 26 04 2012 <http://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/PICONETHIRD.pdf>.

Duncan, Garret Albert. "Washington University in St Louis Magazine." 2005. 25 04 2012 <http://magazine-archives.wustl.edu/winter05/Viewpoint.htm>.

Home School Legal Defense Association. 24 04 2012 <http://www.hslda.org/docs/media/2011/201101140.asp>.

Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education. 2011. 26 04 2012 <http://mcds.dese.mo.gov/quickfacts/State%20Accountability/2011%20Final%20Annual%20Performance%20Report.pdf>.

Steinberg, Laurence. Beyond the Classroom:Why School Reform has Failed and What Parents Need to Do. New York: Simon and Schuster, 1996.

These are all just key words and phrases and I talk between them. It took 11 minutes; I went over the 6-8 minutes and could have kept talking!