thowell Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have been re-reading my TWTM on the logic stage science. I really like the concept and how she has it set up it seems perfect for us. However, none of the resources recommended are Christian content. How do you all handle this? Are there other resources that would work just as well but present things for either a christian POV or neutral? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have been re-reading my TWTM on the logic stage science. I really like the concept and how she has it set up it seems perfect for us. However, none of the resources recommended are Christian content. How do you all handle this? Are there other resources that would work just as well but present things for either a christian POV or neutral? How do I handle it - I am a Christian, but I think that the WTM rec'd. materials can be used effectively by Christians. We read these resources (and library supplements) through our Christian worldview - the more we learn about physics/chemistry/biology/astronomy, the more my kids and I are in awe of what seems to be orderly (yet wild) planets/inhabitants and universe. Science is not a neutral study - because of that, people are going to study it through some filter - others may read those same resources and get something different out of them than my family does. I am teaching my kids to spot and consider various viewpoints, while letting them learn science concepts and letting them experiment and talk through the experimentation process. Through all this, we also talk about our own faith and beliefs. And honestly, some of my previously non-well-thought-out beliefs are being adjusted. But this adjustment does not negate my rock-bottom faith in God. Resources - I don't think you are going to find neutral science resources. If you like the concept of how WTM logic stage science is set up, I suggest you listen to SWB's audio on "Science in the Classical Curriculum." I think the audio could help you select materials on your own. If you are looking for specific recs for books that claim to be from a Christian POV, I'm sure you can find something with which you will still be able to use the WTM study pattern. I just don't have any recommendations because I've never researched books claiming to be Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwjx2khsmj Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 There's a series of science books called Christian Kids Explore. It includes chemistry, physics, earth and space and biology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 How do I handle it - I am a Christian, but I think that the WTM rec'd. materials can be used effectively by Christians. We read these resources (and library supplements) through our Christian worldview - the more we learn about physics/chemistry/biology/astronomy, the more my kids and I are in awe of what seems to be orderly (yet wild) planets/inhabitants and universe. Science is not a neutral study - because of that, people are going to study it through some filter - others may read those same resources and get something different out of them than my family does. I am teaching my kids to spot and consider various viewpoints, while letting them learn science concepts and letting them experiment and talk through the experimentation process. Through all this, we also talk about our own faith and beliefs. And honestly, some of my previously non-well-thought-out beliefs are being adjusted. But this adjustment does not negate my rock-bottom faith in God. Resources - I don't think you are going to find neutral science resources. If you like the concept of how WTM logic stage science is set up, I suggest you listen to SWB's audio on "Science in the Classical Curriculum." I think the audio could help you select materials on your own. If you are looking for specific recs for books that claim to be from a Christian POV, I'm sure you can find something with which you will still be able to use the WTM study pattern. I just don't have any recommendations because I've never researched books claiming to be Christian. Thank you for this. I overlooked the fact that some Christians are old earth and do follow the evolutionist beliefs and I did not mean to insult anyone. As someone has so nicely pointed out I should have titled it from a creationist POV. I need to take a closer look at the recs she recommended to see how much I would need to adapt. This is for my up and coming 7th grader and I certainly don't want her not to be educated in other ideas and beliefs. I also do not want to use a curriculum that goes out of the way to make connections that aren't even necessary just to make one. I will do some more researching on this and listen to the audios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well the easiest thing is just to start into the BJU science sequence. Sounds like it would be everything you want. Use the dvds/online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 2, 2012 Author Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well the easiest thing is just to start into the BJU science sequence. Sounds like it would be everything you want. Use the dvds/online. I know and I was all set to use it. I have the complete set, without the DVD's in front of me. I am just worried it will be too heavy for her if I can't swing the dvds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I have been struggling like you to figure my plan for science. I wanted to follow WTM and have it align with our young Earth creationist viewpoint. I also want something that for high school will translate in to a program considered rigorous. It has been hard to find something that meets the different criteria I was hoping for. At this point I am thinking I am going to go with BJU kind of reluctantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Danielle, I'm not sure what your criteria are, but the updated versions of the BJU science are quite rigorous. Thowell, they had a deal running individual classes for $99 a while back. Maybe they'll drop individual subject prices in the fall? That would be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Danielle, I'm not sure what your criteria are, but the updated versions of the BJU science are quite rigorous. Thowell, they had a deal running individual classes for $99 a while back. Maybe they'll drop individual subject prices in the fall? That would be amazing. Yes it would I have kicked myself a thousand times for not buying the Science during the sale. I called their customer service and she said they may run the special again but had no idea when. If it was before late July (when we start) that would be perfect!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Danielle, I'm not sure what your criteria are, but the updated versions of the BJU science are quite rigorous. Thowell, they had a deal running individual classes for $99 a while back. Maybe they'll drop individual subject prices in the fall? That would be amazing. Well, first I was hoping for something less textbookish. I know I could get the online or dvd versions, but my ds wants to have a book and work through it with me. I have heard BJU is rigorous for high school and has a good reputation when looked at by colleges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 I decided to send their Distant Learning department an email and see if there are any other specials on the horizon. I will let you all know if I hear anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thank you for this. I overlooked the fact that some Christians are old earth and do follow the evolutionist beliefs and I did not mean to insult anyone. You're welcome. But what makes you think I was insulted? I was just answering your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danybug Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I decided to send their Distant Learning department an email and see if there are any other specials on the horizon. I will let you all know if I hear anything. Oh thanks, I will be interested to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 You're welcome. But what makes you think I was insulted? I was just answering your questions. No not you someone else took the way I worded my question the wrong way and I just wanted to make sure you didn't take it wrong as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Well, first I was hoping for something less textbookish. I know I could get the online or dvd versions, but my ds wants to have a book and work through it with me. I have heard BJU is rigorous for high school and has a good reputation when looked at by colleges. Yeah, that's a totally different criteria to add. Can't get more textbooky than BJU, lol. You could watch the videos and let stick what sticks (something I've thought about). Our evaluator encouraged me to take dd very, very out of the box. Thing is, that takes a lot of energy and doesn't come prepackaged! I'm hoping for high school the Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry Experiments will work. He's also writing a biology version and hopes to do a physics. At the junior high level you still have leeway to do really different kinds of things (topical studies, whatever) and be fine. The ACS free middle school chemistry curriculum is good, but the materials are not pick up and go for my daughter. They're the type of thing I have to do with her. So that has been putting an ax in it. I keep trying, it keeps flopping. I have some TOPs books I'd like her to do, but she bucks those. I have the Chem 101 videos (Timberdoodle sells them) that I finally found after having lost them for a couple months at Christmas, oops. (They were in a box that got shoved under a table with a cloth on top!) Anyways, she'll probably start watching that soon. We'll see what happens. I'm sorry I don't have any great options. I'm just muddling through it myself. We did BJU through elementary, using it as a spine and doing things our own way. When I came to the BJU7, I didn't approach it right (changed to doing it really textbooky), and it was just a mess for her. She could do it, but it took such an extreme, disproportionate amount of time for her as a person. Not for someone else, just for her. It wasn't worth it. But I like the BJU science a lot, an awful lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I was thinking about this some more tonight. Have you seen the middle school listings at Home Science Tools? They seem pretty spot on. http://www.hometrainingtools.com/middle-school-science/c/188/action/showall/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) No not you someone else took the way I worded my question the wrong way and I just wanted to make sure you didn't take it wrong as well. Wrong? No. Insulted? No. I just answered your questions as they were in the OP. Your clarification about YE vs. OE rather than Christian vs. non-Christian makes more sense to me now, though. p.s. about the science audio - as far as I can remember, SWB doesn't offer suggestions for specific texts re: YE or OE. Rather, she suggests methods of studying science - the one thing I really remember is (starting in logic stage, I think) the recommendation to compare two or more books side by side, about a certain topic. Really look at what each author is saying about that topic - look at the grammar/structure of the sentences in a few paragraphs, to see how the author is trying to sway the reader to the author's opinion. Because the author is always trying to do that, cuz authors are humans with opinions. It's because of this rec. to analyze books that I, as a Christian, feel comfortable with looking at varying scientific opinions with my kids. Edited March 3, 2012 by Colleen in NS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Ok, just to throw another idea out there, has anyone looked at or used the 4-H resources? There is a lady at our co-op who is planning a science class next year for middle school grades using the 4-H STEM program. http://www.4-hdirectory.org/browse/default.aspx you can see some of the topics at this link. So we were talking about how she is going to put together a schedule for the parents ahead of time telling us what topic she will be covering each meeting. They will be doing hands on projects along with lab sheets and a project book during class time. I wonder how hard it would be for me to pull in the reading materials say on Monday (since co-op is on Thursday) let dd11 read a few pages, outline it, note any vocab or important dates or people and then follow up on the topic in class that week? The big difference from TWTM science is that she will do a different topic every couple of weeks. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think if your kid is putting in the *time* and reading some non-fiction, you're golden. If they're writing occasionally for it, that's even better. Personally, I'm picking my battles. I have one non-negotiable skill I want to work on (focusing to read a non-fiction selection, even if you don't give a rip about it), and I'm not piling on three more. If this dc were in high school, I might feel a little differently. But for this age, pick your goals with a view to the *skills* and where it's getting you, little nibbles at a time, by the end. BTW, I've read for years in books on homeschooling that we ought to pick gaps, blah blah. Never thought I would. Then I met some people at the Cincy convention who set me straight on how well a child can turn out with gaps or with an unconventional approach to the gaps. I wouldn't do that willy-nilly, but if you have a plan that fits your kid and work it, feel confident about it. That's my theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thowell Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I think if your kid is putting in the *time* and reading some non-fiction, you're golden. If they're writing occasionally for it, that's even better. Personally, I'm picking my battles. I have one non-negotiable skill I want to work on (focusing to read a non-fiction selection, even if you don't give a rip about it), and I'm not piling on three more. If this dc were in high school, I might feel a little differently. But for this age, pick your goals with a view to the *skills* and where it's getting you, little nibbles at a time, by the end. BTW, I've read for years in books on homeschooling that we ought to pick gaps, blah blah. Never thought I would. Then I met some people at the Cincy convention who set me straight on how well a child can turn out with gaps or with an unconventional approach to the gaps. I wouldn't do that willy-nilly, but if you have a plan that fits your kid and work it, feel confident about it. That's my theory. Thanks Elizabeth, I think I will wait and see what her schedule and list of topics looks like. If it seems workable I could always use the BJU along with a couple other resources for extra reading and outlining practice. I love how BJU lends itself to outlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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