Discussing the Great Books...

[missesd]

My plan was to read the great book along with the kids. The problem is I have at least 2 different grades. So for those of you that have multiple kids in multiple high school grades, how do you handle this?? How to you do the discussion part when you have so many books your spanning with different historical eras?

[beachnut]

This probably won't be of any help, but we all study the same historical period together and we're often reading the same books at different levels. (I've only got 2 boys -- a 6th grader & a 9th grader.) We study the same historical period using different spines & resources and different versions of the literature, but we often sit together & discuss the historical period, talk about literary elements & techniques, watch a related movie, do mapping activities, make timelines, draw, create projects, etc. I simply expect a higher level of work from my high schooler than my middle schooler. For example, we just read Gilgamesh. My high schooler read "the real thing" while my 6th grader read Geraldine McCraughean's version. (We all actually liked the younger version better.) But the basic elements of the story are the same. I did have separate discussions with my high schooler sometimes to go deeper into the book, but quite often, we all worked together.

 

Currently, we're reading through the Iliad, with my younger son reading children's versions and my older son reading "the real thing."

 

If you are working with several different grade levels on several different historical periods, then I'm not sure there's an easy solution. I would make SparkNotes or Cliffs Notes a good friend! ;)

[Lori D.]

re: History

Absolutely NO way I would do more than one History period per year -- all 4 high schoolers would just do whatever time period you choose; and they could pretty much do most of the same Lit, too, with maybe a few extra tougher works thrown in for the 12th grader. That would actually make doing both History and Lit. a snap, having ONE discussion time a day for FOUR students!

 

 

Well, I'd suggest do a few books ALL together (all 4 high schoolers), and then do one of two options on top of that.

 

 

First, do a few books ALL together:

That would be some *awesome* conversation, with everyone sparking ideas and themes from the comments of each other! I'd shoot for 1 book per quarter to do in this way. Pick works that are ones that none of them have done yet; that would fit maturity-wise for all 4; are works that would spark good dialog; and that are works you personally feel are a "must" -- they DON'T have to match up with your time frame.

 

Ideas that would be accessible for all 4 grade levels, and are traditional "classics" done in high school:

- The Iliad (or, The Odyssey)

- Oedipus Rex

- Beowulf

- 1-2 Shakespeare plays

- something by Charles Dickens

- Jane Eyre (or Wuthering Heights)

- Pride and Prejudice

- To Kill a Mockingbird

- Animal Farm

- The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

- Farenheit 451

 

Another idea that would take you a full school year: The Lord of the Rings trilogy, with the Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings one-year study.

 

 

Then, options in addition to 4 together books:

1. The 12th grader do a mostly solo either: a lit. program -- OR -- works not yet done in previous years.

Meanwhile, the 2 10th graders and 1 9th grader can do the remaining history and literature together -- which should really speed things up for you, being able to keep so many students all together in one time frame!

 

OR,

2. The 12th grader as above.

Meanwhile, if you really wanted all students also doing some separate Lit. for some reason, then get separate Lit. programs for each -- and then trade them around each year, so you're doing the same lit., but it's "new" to each individual student each year... So one student does a British Lit, another an American Lit, and the third some sort of mixed or World Lit; then next year, trade, and then the following year, trade again. Excellence in Literature has some interesting Literature programs you could do this with.

 

 

Just a few ideas. Enjoy your conversations with The Great Books! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Lori D.

[missesd]

Well the 9th grader has been doing stuff with the 10th graders since last yr. I just bumped him up a year in Science and History.

 

The 12th grader, is working on the founding documents, and so he isn't really doing the 4 year rotation. Last year he worked solely on the Constitution. I felt going out into the world and becoming a voter he needed to know what our country was founded on and what it stood for. After reading these answers, and thinking it over, I was beginning to wonder if he should even do the great books, because it doesn't really correlate with his history. But then it also helps cover literature too..... so what do I do??

[Nan in Mass]

I had my two doing the same thing at the same time. They noticed different things in whatever we were reading, but that made the discussions better. Then they picked their own paper/project subjects. There is no way I could have managed, even with just two children, if they hadn't been together for great books. They each read a different book for historical background (Kingfisher until done, then Spielvogel). I really hesitated to combine them for the modern period. Instead, we didn't do moderns. I have my older ones do scifi on their own. So what this looks like is 3 years of great books spread over 4 years, with the older one doing scifi books here and their on own. They read the books over the summer or during vacations or the weekends or on their own time. It wasn't too hard to talk them into doing this because scifi in general is a quick easy read. They read through TWEM questions on their own. If I wanted them to notice anything in particular about the book then I mentioned it beforehand (like why this was on their list or historical background). Then they wrote about the books for writing. I included a few moderns that I thought they ought to read in this way as well, but in general, I thought most of the famous modern works would be wasted on my boys at that age. They would just hate them and never read them on their own later when they had some chance of appreciating them. I also thought that there was a good chance that they would actually read the moderns on their own, where they were unlikely to read The Odyssey for fun unless they were introduced to them first. I can definately envision all three of mine, even the engineers, reading Shakespeare or Dracula or The Odyssey for fun, especially in audio form. And I can see my middle one, who is 21 now, reading The Great Gatsby and appreciating it. But I know he would have hated it if I had made him read it when he was 18. He just would have thought it was long and depressing. He was much better off reading stuff by Ben Franklin.

 

HTH

Nan

[Lori D.]

The 12th grader, is working on the founding documents, and so he isn't really doing the 4 year rotation. Last year he worked solely on the Constitution. I felt going out into the world and becoming a voter he needed to know what our country was founded on and what it stood for. After reading these answers, and thinking it over, I was beginning to wonder if he should even do the great books, because it doesn't really correlate with his history. But then it also helps cover literature too..... so what do I do??

 

 

Just want to throw in that, not only to The Great Books help cover Literature, but as we read and discuss them with our students, we see how these works really help us wrestle with the big questions of life. So they are not just for academic purposes, and, as Nan alludes to in her response, they are something we AND our students will (hopefully!) pick up from time to time throughout their lives and read -- for the sheer beauty of the language, and for the wonderful way in which these works help us form our responses to the tough things in life...

 

 

And, just to reassure you, you do NOT have to always match up your Literature and History studies. Esp. since you only have this one year left with your 12th grader, why not just pick your 4 "must reads", and do them all together with your high schoolers? Give them that wonderful experience of discussing together -- ANY works will be great! -- because that will open a door of possible future discussions amongst the siblings when they are adults. Again, pick a few YOU really want them all to have exposure to before they graduate from high school. :)

 

 

 

And if you really WANT to match up some Great Books for your 12th grader, here are a few that would go well:

 

- Animal Farm (Orwell)

A novella; fast reading; easily accessible for grades 7 and up. A biting commentary on both the communist AND capitalist systems of government, as well as revealing basic human nature.

 

- The Giver (Lowry)

Young adult fiction; novella length; fast reading; easily accessible for grades 7 and up. Future setting in which a history of so much past violence leads government choice to create a "utopia" -- but which comes at a great cost and loss to the people.

 

- Utopia (More)

Short novel length; older language and syntax; consider doing excerpts and reading/discussing together. Sort of a satire; at what cost can you have "utopia" (man-made paradise on earth) -- is such a form of government possible, and if so, at what cost?

 

- Gulliver's Travels (Swift)

Another satire; poking at specific people and factions in the British government of his day.

 

And while there are loads of great themes to explore in Shakespeare, there is a "government" sort of theme in these 4 plays:

- Julius Caesar -- public leader vs. the private person; dictatorship vs republic

- Macbeth -- individual ambition and grab for political power leads to downfall

- Hamlet -- divine right of kings; usurpation of power; paralysis of Hamlet as a leader/not wanting leadership

- King Lear -- wrongly handing over the power to govern to others

 

- Republic (Aristotle)

Ancient Greek non-fiction essay; maybe just have your 12th grader work through this one.

 

 

BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.