Science teachers: is this a BAD method of instruction?

[distancia]

Finally making some headway on dd's Gen Chem I class, and now I know (at least, I think I know) it's not just her, it's the way the class it set up. But I would like to hear it from a "real" professional instructor and ask for your opinion on what dd should do next.

 

The Gen Chem class is a 2 semester class with a 24 chapter, 1100+ page textbook. Dd was first doing fine, but then things fell apart a couple of weeks ago, when dd complained:

 

1) the class is going too fast

2) there are no labs with this course (!), the school is going to wait until next semester, Gen Ghem II, to start doing labs, and combine some of the Gen Chem I labs with Gen Chem II labs

 

Earlier on dd said it didn't seem very effective to learn the material without the labs to reinforce the concepts learned. Then she complained (again) to me this weekend that the class was going too fast--which I thought was just her complaining because she is slow in math--but then she showed me her math, she's doing okay. It's the pace that is the issue: the class is doing 2 chapters a week, all book work, and they are going to be on Chapter 18 by Thanksgiving.

 

For comparison, just now I checked a variety of syllabi from other universities and colleges in our state, all of which are ending class in early December. They are stopping (same book) at chapter 9 or 10. The pace is 1 chapter every 2 weeks.

 

Agreed, at dd's school there are no labs to take up time, but dd says that rushing through the textbook with all reading and no lab work is a disservice to the students, whereas the other schools are teaching the material at half the speed and augmenting with weekly labs.

 

Dd says if her Gen Chem I class could slow down to the pace of the other state schools, she could handle it, but the way they are going now--eeek.

 

Not only that, she had her first exam today and the Prof announced that a 50% would be passing grade. That bothers dd a great deal, because she says she doesn't just want to pass with a 50, she wants to actually know the material.

 

So, bottom line: dd can withdraw from the class and take Gen Chem I at a later date, another institution, and get the lab experience along with slower pace, or she can muck through it now with a "pass" and not give Gen Chem I a backward glance.

 

Opinions?

Edited September 20, 2011 by distancia
better title

[chepyl]

I would drop it and find another place to take the class. I had a HORRIBLE high school chemistry experience and did not feel confident in my ability to succeed in a college chem class. I might have done okay, but I knew NOTHING going into it.

 

Is this a college class? If she is taking a second level or planing to move into Organic Chem or other premed type classes, she needs a better class. A class with labs. If she just needs the credit, but intends to do nothing further with it, she could just stick it out.

[distancia]

1) Is this a college class? If she is taking a second level or planing to move into Organic Chem or other premed type classes, she needs a better class. A class with labs.

 

2) If she just needs the credit, but intends to do nothing further with it, she could just stick it out.

 

1) This is a college class. Previously, dd took Intro to Chem with lab (different school) which was an entry-level science track course. She earned an A.

 

2) She needs only one semester of Gen Chem, BUT she needs a full lab, also. In order to get the lab credit she has to go next semester into Gen Chem II, and she doesn't want to shortchange herself by rushing through all this material at a breakneck pace, only to crash in Gen Chem II and never get any lab credit. She would much prefer to go at a slower pace and learn (and retain) more, But she's unsure if she is doing the right thing, and what is the right thing to do?

Edited September 20, 2011 by distancia

[chepyl]

If she is not getting what she needs, she should drop the class. It is not worth the stress.

[creekland]

If she is not getting what she needs, she should drop the class. It is not worth the stress.

 

:iagree:

[FaithManor]

Some colleges run Gen Chem classes differently depending on the majors the students are working towards. This sounds like it is set up for science majors and in particular pre-med, pre-vet, pre-pharm, and chem majors. Those kids would have been expected to have taken chem and advanced chem in high school and intro to chem in college and be prepared to zoom through the material and then have intensive labs. I am not fond of the set-up, however, in researching STEM degrees, I've found that Chem classes are often designed to be weeder classes to get kids who have declared a STEM major that aren't prepared for it, to either drop the major or to go back and take more prerequisites. But, the 50% to pass....not appropriate. I'd be furious about that.

 

Since your daughter only needs one semester of lab based chem, she must not be in a chemistry related major and so this class is not an appropriately designed class for her. She needs a more general chemistry for non-majors and should be able to find that somewhere else. She shouldn't allow her GPA to suffer because she's been inadvertently assigned to a "weeder" class which is what I suspect this course is.

 

At my uni, there was chemistry for the STEM majors, and chemistry for "regular people", as the professor called us. :D Though they used the same text, the non-weeder course was much gentler than the one for the STEM majors whom he worked like rented mules! :tongue_smilie:

 

Faith

[regentrude]

The pace seems fast to me- but then, the question would be how much of each chapter is going to be covered in how much detail. I doubt that the course comprehensively covers every single section of 18 chapters before Thanksgiving with in-depth homework. (What usually happens is that some topics are omitted, some only surveyed, sometimes complete chapters are not covered- so when you examine the syllabus, seeing "Chapter 18 in November" does not have to mean that every single page of the book will have been covered by then.)

As for the lab, some chemistry courses have lab as a component of the course, and some as a stand-alone class which does not have to be taken concurrently with the lecture class.

 

It sounds as if this is a rigorous course geared towards science majors - chemistry is considered a hard and time consuming class. Which textbook are they using?

How much time is DD spending on chemistry? A typical work load would be 2-3 hours out of class for every hour in class. Spending this much time is normal and expected.

Is this the only chemistry class offered? Typically, there would be various different levels of chemistry, depending on major. Is your DD in the correct class?

 

If this is the only option for chemistry and it is not working for your DD, she needs to drop the class and take the course elsewhere. Just because you are a student at xyz university does not mean you have to take every single class there - some students choose to take specific classes at another place, sometimes over the summer. Just make sure the school accepts the credit.

[distancia]

Some colleges run Gen Chem classes differently depending on the majors the students are working towards. This sounds like it is set up for science majors and in particular pre-med, pre-vet, pre-pharm,

 

Since your daughter only needs one semester of lab based chem, she must not be in a chemistry related major and so this class is not an appropriately designed class for her. She needs a more general chemistry for non-majors and should be able to find that somewhere else.

 

Faith

 

The school is an LAC and grants only a B.A. degree.

 

Dd has already taken Everyday Chemistry for non-science majors, as well as Intro to Chem w/lab for science majors (who will end up getting B.A. degrees). She needs Gen Chem I w/lab for her particular degree, which, in her current LAC, is a B.A., but in other schools is a B.S.

 

So she is stuck.

[Trilliums]

So, bottom line: dd can withdraw from the class and take Gen Chem I at a later date, another institution, and get the lab experience along with slower pace, or she can muck through it now with a "pass" and not give Gen Chem I a backward glance.

 

Opinions?

 

 

Is she planning on transferring out of this school? Or does she expect the school to eventually offer Gen Chem I with the lab component?

If neither of these is the case, she might have to just make the best out of the class, seeking extra help as much as possible.

 

Recently, however, DS asked DH and me if we had any advice for classes in college. DH (by the way has Ph.D in analytical chem) said he thought it was important to realize early (before drop dates) if a class was a poor fit or if your class schedule was too demanding. He had some gnarly classes he barely passed in grad school and he wished he had been able to see early on that they were not right for him at that time. If that turns out to be the case for your daughter, I'd think she should drop as long as she can fulfill the requirement another way.

Good luck!