Latin Question

[Fleur de Lis]

I'm starting to teach myself Latin from Henle this semester. Can you help me understand which syllable is long in Maria (long i) when I decline it into the abl. s., gen. pl., etc.? Can I have TWO long vowels right next to each other? Thanks!

[Tullia]

I'm starting to teach myself Latin from Henle this semester. Can you help me understand which syllable is long in Maria (long i) when I decline it into the abl. s., gen. pl., etc.? Can I have TWO long vowels right next to each other? Thanks!

 

Good question!:) However, no one would ever mistake me for a Latin expert, so take this with a grain of salt; I'm hoping that someone with more knowledge will chime in. My understanding (based on Henle Grammar # 26-31 and Wheelock's 6th Ed.) is that stems remain the same throughout the declension, so the long i would remain long even when the endings in some forms contain another long vowel. IOW, having a long vowel in a noun ending doesn't affect a long vowel in the stem. So, in answer to your second question I'd say that you can, indeed, have two long long vowels next to each other. (See Henle I p. 25 ex. 22 # 4)

 

However, the vowel quantity does affect the stress. Because the i in Maria is long, and Maria is a word containing three syllables, you should infer that the stress is placed on the the penult: ma RI a. If the i in Maria was short (just for the sake of illustration), the accent would be on the antepenult: MA ri a [Rule for stressed syllables from p. xliv Wheelock's]

 

HTH,

Martha

 

There are often exceptions to these kinds of rules, but my studies haven't progressed far enough to know if there are exceptions to the principles I've outlined.

 

The two rules given for determining stress accent in Wheelocks:

1. In words of two syllables, the accent always falls on the first syllable.

2. In words of three or more syllables, the accent falls on the next to last syllable (penult) if that syllable is long. Otherwise, the accent falls on the syllable before that (the antepenult)

Edited September 6, 2011 by Martha in NM
clarity; make terminology more consistent

[Fleur de Lis]

Wow, you are absolutely amazing. Thank you for your help. My hubby is on the phone with a friend of his who is a Latin professor tonight and so I had him ask for me and your answer lines up exactly.

 

The one side comment hubby's friend made was that the particular name, Maria (long I) is sort of unique since it was originally a Hebrew name. Most latin names with an -ia ending, such as Julia, would have a short I, so it would not normally be an issue with these particular vowels.

 

Thank you for your well thought out response and especially for finding me that example. I've studied Latin in the past a bit and I've never seen the two long vowels in a row, so it threw me for a loop!

[Nomen Nescio]

I'm starting to teach myself Latin from Henle this semester. Can you help me understand which syllable is long in Maria (long i) when I decline it into the abl. s., gen. pl., etc.? Can I have TWO long vowels right next to each other? Thanks!

I don't often see long vowels next to eachother, but it it happens notably in āēr -eris and in those latinized Greek first-declension masculine names, like Aenēās. I don't know of any cases of this happening with something other than a loanword from another language.

[Tullia]

...The one side comment hubby's friend made was that the particular name, Maria (long I) is sort of unique since it was originally a Hebrew name. Most latin names with an -ia ending, such as Julia, would have a short I, so it would not normally be an issue with these particular vowels...

 

 

I don't often see long vowels next to eachother, but it it happens notably in āēr -eris and in those latinized Greek first-declension masculine names, like Aenēās. I don't know of any cases of this happening with something other than a loanword from another language.

 

Thank you both; this is good information for my notes.