Oryon-Gillingham not recommended for Aspies with dyslexia?

[Geo]

Has anyone here ever heard this? Here's a little background:

I recently joined a yahoo group supporting families with dyslexic children.

I made a post introducing myself and cited my concerns over the length of lessons (1 hr) prescribed in my "Preventing Academic Failure" manual. PAF is an OG program used with dyslexic children. I also included that my son was most likely an aspie...w/anxiety, adhd, in addition to multiple learning disabilities, though testing isn't until Sept. 30th. His ped shares my concerns AND added a new one...Fragile-X. Anyway, the moderator replied that Susan Barton does not recommend OG for children with Asperger's. Has anybody ever heard this before? Anybody out there use an OG approach with an aspie...?

 

Beyond that topic...

I've been wanting to post about all the LDs and other issues but have felt overwhelmed at communicating it all...especially the Dr. suspected Fragile-X. Which by the way, was mentioned to dh at the ER (by the Dr)while getting stitches for ds. That Dr. had no knowledge of the ped's concerns. It feels like an ill omen. :crying: Trying not to go there.

 

Geo

Edited August 11, 2010 by Geo

[siloam]

Geo,

 

Hey!

 

That was a new one on me too. She is a Barton certified master trainer, so I am sure she knows what she is talking about in regards to Susan Barton, but I don't know about o/g in specific. I had never heard that aspies shouldn't use o/g, and now and then Susan has strong opinions on stuff I don't agree with, like she is adamant that people shouldn't do LiPS at home, but find a tutor. I have used it with two kids at home without problems, so Susan and I disagree on that one. It might be this is another area Susan and I end up disagreeing on. ;)

 

I personally would just keep moving forward for now, and see what your evaluations come back as, then look at your choices again after that.

 

Heather

[sbgrace]

I'm not using that program but I am using o-g techniques (Recipe for Reading type) with my spectrum and multiple learning disability son.

I can't figure out what the reasoning would be for not using O-G with an Aspie. I found Susan Barton very willing to communicate with me even if I didn't use her program. I would probably call and ask if that is true and if so find out her reasoning. Then I would do what seemed best to me. You can always stop if something isn't working after all.

 

:grouphug: on the fragile X stuff. I've found that the possibilities and anxiety associated with them are always worse than the actual dx even when it's turned out to be what I feared. I don't know if that made sense. But the maybe/maybe not and what ifs are always harder for me than even the grief process that follows an actual diagnosis. I believe there is also some progress being made in fragile x treatment. I'm not sure of that but something sticks in my head because I found it amazing they were finding treatment for genetic conditions (my son is a metabolic condition kiddo though we didn't know until he was 3.5).

[merry gardens]

Has anyone here ever heard this? Here's a little background:

I recently joined a yahoo group supporting families with dyslexic children.

I made a post introducing myself and cited my concerns over the length of lessons (1 hr) prescribed in my "Preventing Academic Failure" manual. PAF is an OG program used with dyslexic children. I also included that my son was most likely an aspie...w/anxiety, adhd, in addition to multiple learning disabilities, though testing isn't until Sept. 30th. His ped shares my concerns AND added a new one...Fragile-X. Anyway, the moderator replied that Susan Barton does not recommend OG for children with Asperger's. Has anybody ever heard this before? Anybody out there use an OG approach with an aspie...?

 

Beyond that topic...

I've been wanting to post about all the LDs and other issues but have felt overwhelmed at communicating it all...especially the Dr. suspected Fragile-X. Which by the way, was mentioned to dh at the ER (by the Dr)while getting stitches for ds. That Dr. had no knowledge of the ped's concerns. It feels like an ill omen. :crying: Trying not to go there.

 

Geo

Hmm. Rather than assume the moderator of that forum correctly quoted Susan Barton, you might try placing a call to see if she really said that and in what context. Does this refer to de-coding problems or comprehension problems? (By de-coding, I mean sounding out and saying the words correctly. By comprehension, I mean correctly understanding the meaning and information the author wishes to convey. Inaccurate de-coding will cause problems with comprehension, but other things affect comprehension also.)

 

People can have more than one problems going on at the same time, and reading problems can be from and/or affect more than one thing also.

In my experience with Barton's (just starting level 4), O-G methods seem primarily to help with decoding problems. If the child cannot de-code accurately, an O-G method should help to teach de-coding.

 

Once a child can de-code, sometimes there are still problems with reading comprehension. If the child fails to understand what he has just correctly de-coded, that likely requires different teaching methods. Another reading specialist, Nanci Bell, uses the term "hyper-lexia" to distinguish reading problems in someone who can read without comprehending what he reads. Some programs that work on reading comprehension are Visualizing and Verbalizing (by Lindamood-Bell) and IdeaChain (by Mindprime.) There are also special education materials available to teach common idioms.

 

A person on the Autism spectrum might be more prone to reading problems such as "hyperlexia" that relate to taking language too literally and/or communication problems using language in general. Afterall, reading and writing are simply methods of communication. Such persons may--or may not--have problems with "sounding out" words. Therefore I suspect that an O-G method may-or may not help--depending on the particular child and the particular reading problem(s).

Edited August 11, 2010 by merry gardens

[LizzyBee]

Here is the only reference to Asperger's that I can find on the Barton Reading website:

 

If someone can already read accurately and rapidly, but only has trouble with comprehension, they may have Aspergers or Hyperlexia. The Barton System is not appropriate for that type of student.

 

Even if your son has Asperger's, he doesn't seem to be the type of student Susan is referring to in this quote.

 

However, I agree with the others who said to call or email Susan and get her opinion directly. She responds to questions very quickly. She even emailed me on Christmas Day (or maybe it was Christmas Eve)!

[Geo]

Hmm. Rather than assume the moderator of that forum correctly quoted Susan Barton, you might try placing a call to see if she really said that and in what context. Does this refer to de-coding problems or comprehension problems? (By de-coding, I mean sounding out and saying the words correctly. By comprehension, I mean correctly understanding the meaning and information the author wishes to convey. Inaccurate de-coding will cause problems with comprehension, but other things affect comprehension also.)

 

People can have more than one problems going on at the same time, and reading problems can be from and/or affect more than one thing also.

In my experience with Barton's (just starting level 4), O-G methods seem primarily to help with decoding problems. If the child cannot de-code accurately, an O-G method should help to teach de-coding.

 

Once a child can de-code, sometimes there are still problems with reading comprehension. If the child fails to understand what he has just correctly de-coded, that likely requires different teaching methods. Another reading specialist, Nanci Bell, uses the term "hyper-lexia" to distinguish reading problems in someone who can read without comprehending what he reads. Some programs that work on reading comprehension are Visualizing and Verbalizing (by Lindamood-Bell) and IdeaChain (by Mindprime.) There are also special education materials available to teach common idioms.

 

A person on the Autism spectrum might be more prone to reading problems such as "hyperlexia" that relate to taking language too literally and/or communication problems using language in general. Afterall, reading and writing are simply methods of communication. Such persons may--or may not--have problems with "sounding out" words. Therefore I suspect that an O-G method may-or may not help--depending on the particular child and the particular reading problem(s).

 

:iagree:

I don't think it was the moderator's intention to rule out the possibility of

using an OG with an aspie...but more along the lines of seeking a professional evaluation for both sides of the issue (asperger's & dyslexia). It did take a couple of communications for that to be more clearly conveyed though...that Asperger's alone doesn't make OG inappropriate for a person, but a pragmatic language problem would (which are common for aspies). Indeed, I had not considered the pragmatic language issue and it's impact on comprehension...yet. I was still in a tunnel over the decoding-encoding challenges. This comment, from the Barton website is posted above the student screening link:

 

"If someone can already read accurately and rapidly, but only has trouble with comprehension, they may have Aspergers or Hyperlexia. The Barton System is not appropriate for that type of student."

 

That makes sense. Clearly my son does not read accurately or rapidly! So, no hyperlexia. I have no clear idea about his comprehension at this point, I haven't noticed anything that brings attention to that. I've decided to proceed with OG instruction via PAF. If there is a comprehension problem we will deal with that as a separate issue...apart from the decoding-encoding.

 

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts,

Geo

Edited August 12, 2010 by Geo

[Geo]

Here is the only reference to Asperger's that I can find on the Barton Reading website:

 

 

 

Even if your son has Asperger's, he doesn't seem to be the type of student Susan is referring to in this quote.

 

However, I agree with the others who said to call or email Susan and get her opinion directly. She responds to questions very quickly. She even emailed me on Christmas Day (or maybe it was Christmas Eve)!

 

It took a long time for me to find that quote earlier today...which helped me understand what the moderator was referring to. I agree with you, my son doesn't sound like that kind of student. I may e-mail her...but am battling a weird shyness about it. :001_huh: I'm sure I will in time.

 

Thanks,

Geo