Omnibus vs. World Views of the Western World by Quine?

[Heather in Neverland]

Both of these programs teach a biblical worldview and assign a literature, history and bible credit...at least that is what it seems from the samples.

 

Can anyone compare these two or give opinions on either?

[Beth in Central TX]

I have also thought about using WVWW, but I haven't seen much talk about it. Here's a link to a discussion about the program on the high school board: http://67.202.21.157/forums/showthread.php?t=110&highlight=WVWW However, usually when WVWW comes up, there's not a lot of discussion. This bothers me, so I decided to go with Omnibus instead.

[Heather in Neverland]

Thank you for that link! I wonder if any teacher keys have been produced since the beginning as that seems to be the major complaint?

[Miss Marple]

There is a yahoo group for WVWW. I have taught WVWW Years 1, 2, and 3 in our co-op. It was quite successful and the parents of those who finished it have asked me to teach it again. I tweaked the program quite a bit. I think, to be successful, you have to be willing to learn it along with the kids. I spent a huge amount of time preparing for the classes. But, I must say that I am a changed person because of it.

 

The most common problem I hear with WVWW is the lack of teacher material. I believe Quine is putting together teacher helps for the programs. I don't know when they will be ready. Here's how I view the different years:

Year 1 - loved it! It is heavily weighted with Schaeffer, but I like him so it wasn't a problem for me. We did not have time to listen to all the audios in class (I wish he had more print materials for those topics) so I would listen to them and lecture about it. Quine would probably find that to be sub-ideal, but it worked for us and the reality was that the parents could not afford all of the materials.

Year 2 - OK. Found it to be onerous at times. The focus on American History (Federalist/AntiFederalist) was too heavy and too long. We edited out a lot of that. That's about the only complaint we had for Year 2.

Year 3 - Loved it. Particularly liked the Economics in One Lesson, Sophie's World, and some of the readers. If I were to omit something, it would be the Darwin stuff because we have covered that thoroughly in our science.

 

I have talked to several of the kids who finished this program (2 of which are National Merit Scholars) and they felt the program was very worthwhile to prepare them for what they would encounter in the university setting. One parent (I had 8 students) felt it totally changed the life of her daughter.

 

I cannot compare this to Omnibus, because I haven't used Omnibus. I have, however, looked at the materials as well as other VP stuff (I love their early years suggestions) and find it to be too Reformed for my taste. That's the only drawback I see, for myself.

 

I think, to be successful with WVWW, you have to be confident in your own beliefs or willing to entertain other ideas. I have never been one to teach from a scripted program, and I have seldom used teacher manuals except for an answer key. The thing with WVWW is that you arrive at a conclusion based on your research. So, an answer key, IMO, is not necessary. I don't want a program to tell me what to think, but I like one that will give me guidance. BTW, if there were answer keys, we might have gotten a few questions wrong. From Quine's background, I know where he was heading with some topics, but our class arrived at a different conclusion than Quine would have. Discussion is so important in this program. We often found ourselves caught up on some small aspect of an issue and the kids would go home and research more and come back for more discussion. We beat a few horses to death!

 

And, finally, don't be afraid to tweak the program to fit your needs and schedule. I'd be happy to answer any specific questions or you can go to the yahoo group for more answers. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WorldViews/

[Heather in Neverland]

 

II cannot compare this to Omnibus, because I haven't used Omnibus. I have, however, looked at the materials as well as other VP stuff (I love their early years suggestions) and find it to be too Reformed for my taste. That's the only drawback I see, for myself.

 

 

Wow, thank you for the in-depth review on this! The heavily-reformed point of view of Omnibus makes me a little wary too. I think it looks like a great curriculum and as much as I love the idea of a "great books" curriculum, I really want something that teaches from a biblical worldview and I think this might be it.

 

Have you looked at "Starting Points"? Because I was thinking of starting with this for middle school.

[Miss Marple]

Yes, I've taught Starting Points once in our co-op. I think it's an excellent introduction for kids to learn to think worldviewishly (is that even a word :-). Some on this board don't like the workbook approach, but, again, I tweaked the program to fit my class. I had a relatively immature group of kids. I didn't worry about whether they completed every entry in the workbook, but I did require that they knew the topic and participated in discussion. Also, for both programs, I created quizzes, in-class essays, and exams. This helped break the monotony of a workbook-ish course. Movie nights, Greek dinners, class re-enactment of Dante's Inferno, etc. all helped make these courses fun. I had a rather creative group in WVWW, some of whom had quite a theatrical bent :-).

 

You might also look at http://thegreatbooks.com/ for another option.

 

Next year, my worldview class will be a mish-mash of several different programs. I'm hoping to take what I learned from the first time through and condense it to the pertinent authors, ideas, etc. It will be a 2 year course. One 'help' I really like is The Teaching Company's program: Books That Have Made History, Books that Can Change Lives (or something like that). It has been a great help to me as I try to weed through the mountain of "great books".

 

HTH and best wishes on your decision!

[Rhondabee]

This Year doesn't seem to have very many novels in it. Did you add some in? (It seems like a daunting amount of work w/o adding anything!)

 

Also, is there a book (or a handful of books) you could recommend as an introduction? Or possibly a book that would explain Quine's views?

 

Like Heather, I am wary of the Reformed POV of Omnibus, and even TOG. I've been trying to find a way to strengthen *me* so that I could still benefit from these curriculum without losing my way - I'm not even really sure what I would label "my way" - LOL. I haven't really been able to find anything in layman's terms that would help explain the different POV's.

 

Sorry so many questions at once. Thanks!

Rhonda

[Miss Marple]

We really enjoyed The Old Man and the Sea (typical high school reader) and The Plague. We all thought Walden Two was a bit long (too much of the same thing). Lewis's Hideous Strength is always a hit. But, like I said, there are books you could toss (Darwin on Trial, Of Pandas and People). I liked Whitehead's The Second American Revolution and McDowell's The New Tolerance. Both of these books seem to be foundational to the 3rd year, IMO.

 

I do wish that WW2 was covered in this course. However, to do it the way I would like to do it, would take a large chunk of time which is probably why Quine doesn't touch it.

 

Have you done Year 1? If not, I would say that Year 1 is a foundational year. I think it is necessary to do that year before attempting the others especially if you are working to build/strengthen a Biblical World View. If you're just doing the literature, philosophy, economics study, you could just do Year 3, but you will lack a lot of BWV perspective.

 

For myself, I have found that C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity, Schaeffer's commentary on Job and his wife's book Affliction are excellent foundational resources. I'm planning to start my new class off with Susan Schaeffer McCauley's book, How to be Your Own Selfish Pig. It's a fun book, written with a lot of humor. It illustrates nicely the need to examine life from a BWV. That's all I can think of for now, but I'll update if I remember something else. Oh, there is a good book, The Compact Guide to World Religions, if you are looking for something that just explains differences. The website I linked above (The Great Books) is a wealth of information. Click on the link to Worldview Reading and you'll find a page full of suggestions.

[Rhondabee]

I had never heard of this curriculum before Heather's post! I don't know why I didn't start my own thread asking about non-Reformed but Christian curriculum. :confused:

 

Obviously, having just seen this, it's hard to know what to expect. So, I'd like to be able to test the waters a bit before jumping in. Thanks for listing so much to get me started!

 

:)

[Heather in Neverland]

This Year doesn't seem to have very many novels in it. Did you add some in? (It seems like a daunting amount of work w/o adding anything!)

 

Also, is there a book (or a handful of books) you could recommend as an introduction? Or possibly a book that would explain Quine's views?

 

Like Heather, I am wary of the Reformed POV of Omnibus, and even TOG. I've been trying to find a way to strengthen *me* so that I could still benefit from these curriculum without losing my way - I'm not even really sure what I would label "my way" - LOL. I haven't really been able to find anything in layman's terms that would help explain the different POV's.

 

Sorry so many questions at once. Thanks!

Rhonda

 

Seems like you and I are on the same page. I did TOG for a year and it is heavily reformed in my opinion and while I love what Omnibus has to offer, I am not sure I want to navigate those choppy waters either.

 

The answer key isn't a big deal to me but I would like a few more novels throughout the 4 year program. Hmmm....It sure looks interesting though!