Thoughts on this short clip re: whether grammar is nec for good writing?

[birchbark]

This was on the site for the writing program Robinson Curriculum uses.

 

 

[johnandtinagilbert]

I didn't watch the clip...but seriously....of course it is. If you can't form a good sentence, understand how to use words, then in my experience, the writing stinks.

[Cynful]

I don't know if he's right or not, but I love it. :D

[abbeyej]

I watched. I was horrified. I couldn't disagree more. Yes, it's true that 1) many people never learned complex grammar concepts at all, 2) most people don't consider the *terms* for those concepts when attempting to use proper grammar in their daily lives. But knowing those terms, knowing why we make particular choices for particular words *does* allow us to make the proper choices in complex situations.

 

All one needs to do to see the results of a lax attitude towards grammar education is to read a few college-level papers or FaceBook status updates.

 

There are also many times when what sounds right to us is simply wrong. "Me and Sally are going to the store," sounds perfectly acceptable to many people. Throw in a few clauses between the main subject and the main verb, and many, many people won't notice when that subject and verb simply don't agree. I hear and read *basic* grammar mistakes all the time. (And am guilty of them as well -- especially in an informal setting such as a message board.)

 

No, learning proper grammar will not make one a good writer. But it's one element without which correct (especially academic) writing is nearly impossible. Some people do a pretty good job of internalizing grammar concepts intuitively. Others need more explicit instruction. But when it comes to the trickier bits, most of us need a more systematic foundation.

 

And after listening to that? I would never, ever consider his writing program.

[birchbark]

I am coming from the perspective that grammar is important, but I am curious about the studies he mentions. When I looked up the book he cited, this caught my eye in the editorial review:

 

Emphasizing the linguistic perspective, The Teacher's Grammar Book, Second Edition makes an important distinction between grammar and usage, with an explanation of why most sentence errors seen in student language (both written and spoken) are related to usage, not grammar.

 

Is there anything to this?

[WTMindy]

I watched. I was horrified. I couldn't disagree more. Yes, it's true that 1) many people never learned complex grammar concepts at all, 2) most people don't consider the *terms* for those concepts when attempting to use proper grammar in their daily lives. But knowing those terms, knowing why we make particular choices for particular words *does* allow us to make the proper choices in complex situations.

 

All one needs to do to see the results of a lax attitude towards grammar education is to read a few college-level papers or FaceBook status updates.

 

There are also many times when what sounds right to us is simply wrong. "Me and Sally are going to the store," sounds perfectly acceptable to many people. Throw in a few clauses between the main subject and the main verb, and many, many people won't notice when that subject and verb simply don't agree. I hear and read *basic* grammar mistakes all the time. (And am guilty of them as well -- especially in an informal setting such as a message board.)

 

No, learning proper grammar will not make one a good writer. But it's one element without which correct (especially academic) writing is nearly impossible. Some people do a pretty good job of internalizing grammar concepts intuitively. Others need more explicit instruction. But when it comes to the trickier bits, most of us need a more systematic foundation.

 

And after listening to that? I would never, ever consider his writing program.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: