Algebra: Lials, Foerster, Dolciani??? Questions!

[Susan in SoCal]

Here's my situation:

 

My son is currently 11yo, 6th grade. I planned Lials BCM text for this year. And I'd figured that I'd have the whole summer to figure out where to go (math-wise) next. Ds finished BCM last week, and we still have about 10 weeks of school left for this year. And here I am, without a plan.

 

I have on hand these texts (which I've found at various times at the used library book store for $1):

 

Lials Beginning Algebra 5th ed.

Dolciani Modern Algebra Book 1 1965 ed.

Foerster Algebra 1 2nd ed.

 

Please forgive the onslaught of questions I'm about to throw out. I'm not even totally sure I know properly what to ask.

 

A little more background: I wouldn't say my son is brilliant when it comes to math, which is why I'm somewhat surprised to find us arriving at Algebra at this stage of the game. But he has competently juggled the BCM instruction (minus a few struggles with word problems - with the problem mostly being that he was unfamiliar with the "life terms" - ie. "Mom, what does it mean to lease a car?"). His test scores were usually in the low A range. Homework usually ran high 80s to mid 90s (%-wise).

 

So, on to the questions. SHould I move onto Algebra now, or "hang out" awhile with a separate type mathy thing (Key to... books, intro to geometry, any ideas???)? If I move onto Algebra now, is one of the above books appropriate to a younger learner? Is there a place to find solution manuals for older text editions?

 

Any words of wisdom would be much appreciated. I'm feeling quite unprepared at this point.

 

Thanks!

[Jackie in NE]

Not an answer, really, but another question? How is your ds doing in Logic? I see that you've been doing the Fallacy Detective and MIndbenders.....

 

I've heard that the ability to do Algebra is closely tied to the ability to think "logically".

 

Fwiw, my dd is finishing up BCM, and I've decided to go with Lial's algebra since she has responded so well to her teaching style. Personally, I would be afraid to take a break in between "pre-algebra", and algebra.... but then, I'm not in your shoes.

 

Best of luck with your decision.....

 

Jackie

[Myrtle]

I only bought one "keys to" book and that was on percentage. Frankly, I thought it was some of the worst teaching I have ever seen. It had the student memorize how to do cross multiplication without ever explaining why it works. It told the student that if there was a decimal point in the divisor to move it over (without bothering to give problems where numbers such as 25.0 were the divisor), the word problems weren't nearly as challenging as Singapore word problems on the same topic. In fact, it seems that the whole point of the book was to make sure the student did not have to put out any effort in thinking at all by spoonfeeding every last step along the way. Nonetheless, I won't buy another one of their booklets again. If you have a 1965 Doliciani you have pure gold in your hands. Math from the 60's was all about justification and explaining why.

 

Now to contrast and compare: Foerster's has the student memorize multiplication with negative numbers, "the product of two negatives is a postive" and that sort of thing. The Dolciani Algebra II book that I have explains why it works that way. That is not to say that Foerster is a bad book, it's actually probaby the best algebra book still in print, it just doesn't spend as much time on justification as Dolciani does. If you don't personally place value in the why, why, why of math and just want to "get er done" then the sort of in depth treatment you will get out of the Dolciani series (early 60's) may be a ball and chain rather than liberation. Dolciani probably does not come with a teacher's guide and if you need that sort of thing you will want to avoid Dolciani.

 

You may have noticed that Dolciani has a perverse fascination with sets and expressing the solution to problems using set notation. That is because all of modern mathematics is more or less expressed in the language of set theory. It is handled trivially and mindlessly and seemingly without purpose in algebra I and perhaps algebra II, but if you continue with the 1960's math you'll end up seeing this set theory stuff at the verge of turning into abstract algebra by the end of high school in what they called "Analysis" and we today call "Pre-Calc." For an overview of what is involved in math as a field and to get a better idea of this bifurcation of the field you might enjoy reading David Berlinski's Infinite Ascent It is written for the lay person. He only lost me in the chapter on Goedel. We are using a math book similar to Dolciani, by the way.

 

On the other hand, for whatever reason, if you don't have an abstract algebra and pure math fetish like we do and are have engineering calculus in your sites then I understand that Foerster is a very good choice. It's still in print and has support materials. While Foerster perhaps doesn't go into as much depth as I personally want to see, it does at least give formal definitions and list the properties of the real number field. In other words, it doesn't teach lies or have the student memorize slop.

[Susan in SoCal]

Thanks, Jackie & Myrtle :-)

 

Jackie - in answer to your question: he does "ok" with logic. Fallacy Detectives is a breeze for him. Mindbenders throws him for a loop occasionally.

 

Myrtle - I appreciate your comparison of the texts. I think we may go ahead and try Dolciani. We can always take it slow and use exercises from the other texts for additional practice, if need be.

[Sharon in MD]

If you do, you know, like where you end around the beginning of June or so and start up the end of Aug or Beg of Sept, then I'd hang out and do review and other stuff for the rest of this year.

 

I personally have found that I need to reward the accomplishment when my ds has completed something rather than move on to the next thing. It will also buy you the time to decide how you want to proceed rather than making you feel like you have to decide something NOW! I'd encourage you to :chillpill: a moment (sorry, I can't resist these new smilies, they are just too fun). Use some of the other sources like Mind Benders....there is a computer version too, or some of the Keys to for review....or Life of Fred (which I don't know a thing about except everyone raves about it). Switch it up....you have the luxury of time.

 

For the future, next year, I'd suggest looking at Jacobs for Al I and Geometry the next year, then move into Foerster. I think that Jacobs is a better fit for most of the younger students than Foerster. I personally think Jacobs if just plain great all around....but I chose it for our son at 8th grade because I thought he would enjoy it more.

 

By the way, we would have hit Algebra I at 7th grade too, but I decided to slow our ds down by a year because I didn't feel like his computational skills matched up with his comprehension level. I think it pays to be sure they are ready to move on. A good friend of mine always said that homeschooling isn't a race and there is no prize for finishing first. So, we decided that we needed to slow the train down a bit....I'm glad we did. You may not need to, but, if you do, it is okay....that is why we homeschool, right?

 

Okay, I'll get off the soap box now....time for bed.

 

HTH

[Karenciavo]

If you have a 1965 Doliciani you have pure gold in your hands. Math from the 60's was all about justification and explaining why.

 

Now to contrast and compare: Foerster's has the student memorize multiplication with negative numbers, "the product of two negatives is a postive" and that sort of thing. The Dolciani Algebra II book that I have explains why it works that way. That is not to say that Foerster is a bad book, it's actually probaby the best algebra book still in print, it just doesn't spend as much time on justification as Dolciani does. If you don't personally place value in the why, why, why of math and just want to "get er done" then the sort of in depth treatment you will get out of the Dolciani series (early 60's) may be a ball and chain rather than liberation. Dolciani probably does not come with a teacher's guide and if you need that sort of thing you will want to avoid Dolciani.

 

 

Thank you for this Myrtle. I don't suppose you and Charon have a blog or anything that discusses math texts?

[Kimberleigh]

If your son actually enjoys math and isn't just suffering through, take a look at the Introductory Algebra and other books on the Art of Problem Solving site http://www.artofproblemsolving.com. It's very challenging and covers algebra and beyond in a way I haven't seen in other books. The site also emphasizes learning about number theory and probability & counting, areas that are often short-changed in middle and high school mathematics.

 

--Kimber