Cross Post from k-8/ Reading issues...dyslexia or other or nothing?

[King Alfred Academy]

Here is the post in case you want to read the replies I have received so far.

 

I'll copy and paste what I wrote so far:

My almost 7 year old is struggling with reading. CVC is easy for him and he knows the sounds of the letters. He is almost finished with the 80 lessons in headsprout.com and ETC 2 (we've taken our time with these). He is only on Lesson 81 in OPGTR.

 

Here are some of the issues:

 

*He almost always mixes up "d", "b", and "p". I've worked with him on the "bed" trick and a few others, but it just isn't sticking.

 

*Silent "e" is difficult, but he can usually read the word correctly after a few tries ("gate), but if you add an "s" and the end ("gates"), that stumps him often.

 

*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

 

So, do you think these are just normal almost 7 year old boy issues that we just need to keep plugging away at and he will eventually "get it", or do you think there is something else going on?

 

FWIW...when he started talking he couldn't pronounce the "st", "sn", "s-any consonant" combination but would say the second letter and put the "s" at the end of the word..."stop" would be "tops" and "snake" would be "nakes". I made up the phrase, "snake sneaks up on snack" and we practiced it a lot and he finally got it...also correcting the other s-blends.

 

I posted this after someone suggested maybe dyslexia:

I've been reading through the link LeAnn gave me (Bright Solutions) and am surprised at the number of times I nod my head and say, "yep...he does that". However, I am also noticing that he doesn't have many of the symptoms either. But, I am sure that dyslexic individuals don't show ALL symptoms. For example...writing...he forms his letters correctly, but writes some backwards and from the bottom up. His spacing is good and letters are legible, but his pencil grip isn't correct.

 

Another example is directional words. If we say, "pick up the glass on the counter behind you", he looks around and doesn't seem to understand the "where". Also, I think it might be too much for him to "hang onto" in his mind. We are giving him direction, talking about a glass, and asking him to do something with it.

 

So...for those of you who have a child with dyslexia, do you think it could be, or do you think these are just developmental issues that will work themselves out?

 

Thank you so much for helping me work through this. :001_smile:

[Laurie4b]

Here is the post in case you want to read the replies I have received so far.

 

I'll copy and paste what I wrote so far:

My almost 7 year old is struggling with reading. CVC is easy for him and he knows the sounds of the letters. He is almost finished with the 80 lessons in headsprout.com and ETC 2 (we've taken our time with these). He is only on Lesson 81 in OPGTR.

 

Here are some of the issues:

 

*He almost always mixes up "d", "b", and "p". I've worked with him on the "bed" trick and a few others, but it just isn't sticking.

 

*Silent "e" is difficult, but he can usually read the word correctly after a few tries ("gate), but if you add an "s" and the end ("gates"), that stumps him often.

 

*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

 

So, do you think these are just normal almost 7 year old boy issues that we just need to keep plugging away at and he will eventually "get it", or do you think there is something else going on?

 

FWIW...when he started talking he couldn't pronounce the "st", "sn", "s-any consonant" combination but would say the second letter and put the "s" at the end of the word..."stop" would be "tops" and "snake" would be "nakes". I made up the phrase, "snake sneaks up on snack" and we practiced it a lot and he finally got it...also correcting the other s-blends.

 

I posted this after someone suggested maybe dyslexia:

I've been reading through the link LeAnn gave me (Bright Solutions) and am surprised at the number of times I nod my head and say, "yep...he does that". However, I am also noticing that he doesn't have many of the symptoms either. But, I am sure that dyslexic individuals don't show ALL symptoms. For example...writing...he forms his letters correctly, but writes some backwards and from the bottom up. His spacing is good and letters are legible, but his pencil grip isn't correct.

 

Another example is directional words. If we say, "pick up the glass on the counter behind you", he looks around and doesn't seem to understand the "where". Also, I think it might be too much for him to "hang onto" in his mind. We are giving him direction, talking about a glass, and asking him to do something with it.

 

So...for those of you who have a child with dyslexia, do you think it could be, or do you think these are just developmental issues that will work themselves out?

 

Thank you so much for helping me work through this. :001_smile:

 

Mixing up the b, p, d, etc. is still developmentally normal, but it's getting to the edge of that. However, that is a directionality issue, not necessarily a dyslexia issue, though "reversals" are the key dyslexic symptom in the public mind.

 

This part, however, is classic dyslexia:

Silent "e" is difficult, but he can [/i] usually read the word correctly after a few tries ("gate), but if you add an "s" and the end ("gates"), that stumps him often.

 

*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

 

The reason I say it's classic is that he is garbling phonemes. I bet that happens with his spelling and writing, too--word endings get left off, consonants (particularly the ones you listed) get added into words and other sounds get dropped from words.

 

The book that I would recommend that you get is Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. Read up on phonemic awareness. (The insertion/deletion of random sounds is related to this.) The book, Put Reading First, by the National Reading Panel is excellent. You can order a hard copy or read online. Either is free. It presents the components shown by research to be necessary to developing good readers.

http://www.nifl.gov/publications/pdf/PRFbooklet.pdf

 

I would also recommend an evaluation now that includes at minimum an IQ test, such as the WISC-IV (not because overall IQ is so important unless it's below average, but because the scatter on the subtests is highly relevant to figuring out how his brain works) and an individualized achievement test like the Woodcock Johnson. Additional tests of phonemic awareness should be included. C-TOPPS is a good one. You also want a test of rapid naming. You gain so much by an early evaluation if dyslexia is present; if on the off-chance it's not, you've lost some $$. If dyslexia is present and you don't get an evaluation and right onto best remedial practices, you've often lost the optimal window for remediation, and you'll end up paying out the $$ later anyway.

 

Use a research-based reading instruction program or get a Phonographix tutor or Orton-Gillingham tutor (Wilson or Barton are Orton Gillingham programs) to at least get you started. Phonographix (Reading Reflex is the home program) works fastest, so I would try that first. It's best if you could find a tutor or get the training so that you understand what you're doing and why it's important. If that is not sufficient, try Barton or Wilson.

[King Alfred Academy]

Mixing up the b, p, d, etc. is still developmentally normal, but it's getting to the edge of that. However, that is a directionality issue, not necessarily a dyslexia issue, though "reversals" are the key dyslexic symptom in the public mind.

 

This part, however, is classic dyslexia:

Silent "e" is difficult, but he can [/i] usually read the word correctly after a few tries ("gate), but if you add an "s" and the end ("gates"), that stumps him often.

 

*Here is the biggest...he adds letters (mostly "l", "r", "t", and "n") that aren't even there. For example... "plan" becomes "plank" or "sash" becomes "stash" or "stink" becomes "strink". He will say it over and over this way because he knows he is saying it wrong, but he just can't say it right...at least that is my assumption.

 

The reason I say it's classic is that he is garbling phonemes. I bet that happens with his spelling and writing, too--word endings get left off, consonants (particularly the ones you listed) get added into words and other sounds get dropped from words.

 

The book that I would recommend that you get is Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz. Read up on phonemic awareness. (The insertion/deletion of random sounds is related to this.) The book, Put Reading First, by the National Reading Panel is excellent. You can order a hard copy or read online. Either is free. It presents the components shown by research to be necessary to developing good readers.

http://www.nifl.gov/publications/pdf/PRFbooklet.pdf

 

I would also recommend an evaluation now that includes at minimum an IQ test, such as the WISC-IV (not because overall IQ is so important unless it's below average, but because the scatter on the subtests is highly relevant to figuring out how his brain works) and an individualized achievement test like the Woodcock Johnson. Additional tests of phonemic awareness should be included. C-TOPPS is a good one. You also want a test of rapid naming. You gain so much by an early evaluation if dyslexia is present; if on the off-chance it's not, you've lost some $$. If dyslexia is present and you don't get an evaluation and right onto best remedial practices, you've often lost the optimal window for remediation, and you'll end up paying out the $$ later anyway.

 

Use a research-based reading instruction program or get a Phonographix tutor or Orton-Gillingham tutor (Wilson or Barton are Orton Gillingham programs) to at least get you started. Phonographix (Reading Reflex is the home program) works fastest, so I would try that first. It's best if you could find a tutor or get the training so that you understand what you're doing and why it's important. If that is not sufficient, try Barton or Wilson.

 

Thank you so much for the information. I have access to testing sites in my area and will look into getting the testing done. The part I bolded in your quote is very wise and makes a lot of sense.

 

I am fortunate to have a good library and they carry the book you suggested, as well as other books other people have suggested. I'll be heading there today. I have a lot of self educating to do!

 

Thanks again! :001_smile:

 

By the way...today he was reading the word "dirt" but it kept coming out as "dirit". And "for" was substituted for "from".

[merry gardens]

Hi again. :seeya: Glad you joined us over here. For a couple years I struggled with my son's reading, but until I checked out discussion on special education, I felt I was struggling alone.

 

As Laurie suggested, learn more about phonemic awareness. There's a screening on the Barton's website that I found extremely helpful. Even if your son can pass the screen, (my son didn't--he confused some very basic sounds) it would probably be helpful to work with your son on phonemic awareness more. LiPS and Barton's both work with that, as some other reading programs do too, (but not all.) Both those programs also work with letter tiles, which gives the child something very tangible to represent the sounds.

 

Programs for children with dyslexia often introduce the signal e and other silent letters much further along than most traditional reading programs. Getting some kids to hear and say the sounds accurately that are there is tough enough without adding silent letters! I've found discussions over here about various reading programs and experiences with struggling readers very helpful. We're not alone! :grouphug:

[Laurie4b]

Thank you so much for the information. I have access to testing sites in my area and will look into getting the testing done. The part I bolded in your quote is very wise and makes a lot of sense.

 

I am fortunate to have a good library and they carry the book you suggested, as well as other books other people have suggested. I'll be heading there today. I have a lot of self educating to do!

 

Thanks again! :001_smile:

 

By the way...today he was reading the word "dirt" but it kept coming out as "dirit". And "for" was substituted for "from".

 

Yep. Those pesky phonemes. See if you can find a U tube video on tapping as used in the Wilson method. It helps kids keep the phonemes in order better than anything else I've seen.

 

ETA: I can't find a U tube video with tapping.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Laurie4b

[King Alfred Academy]

Hi again. :seeya: Glad you joined us over here. For a couple years I struggled with my son's reading, but until I checked out discussion on special education, I felt I was struggling alone.

 

As Laurie suggested, learn more about phonemic awareness. There's a screening on the Barton's website that I found extremely helpful. Even if your son can pass the screen, (my son didn't--he confused some very basic sounds) it would probably be helpful to work with your son on phonemic awareness more. LiPS and Barton's both work with that, as some other reading programs do too, (but not all.) Both those programs also work with letter tiles, which gives the child something very tangible to represent the sounds.

 

Programs for children with dyslexia often introduce the signal e and other silent letters much further along than most traditional reading programs. Getting some kids to hear and say the sounds accurately that are there is tough enough without adding silent letters! I've found discussions over here about various reading programs and experiences with struggling readers very helpful. We're not alone! :grouphug:

 

Thanks so much for the greeting! :D *I* am looking forward to learning more about phonemic awareness and how to teach him better. I like the idea of the letter tiles as we have been using AAS and he enjoys using them.

 

I think the biggest issue for me, as his teacher, is letting him dictate the pace. If he is struggling with ending blends, then we just need to "camp out" there for awhile, right?

 

Thanks again!

[Ottakee]

Check out the I See Sam readers http://www.teacherweb.com/CA/PomeloDriveElementary/Mrssakamoto/printap2.stm (free printable ones for sets 1 and 2). http://www.3rsplus.com has all 8 sets for sale along with lots of great information on using the books. Check out the discussion on the cursor or notched card.

 

This is a 3x5 card that you cut out a notch and use it to move along as he reads a word. If he puts in extra letters go back to where he messed up and start again. This will train his eyes to work left to right and have him focus on the letters.

 

These books are phonetic based and very systematic but they also use very similar words in the same stories--Nat and Nan, sit and sat, etc. so that the kids MUST read through the words and not just guess by the first and last letters.

 

These books are super easy to use at home and you can start working with them right away while you work towards testing, etc.

[siloam]

Britney,

 

I am coming late to the party but will add my 2 cents.

 

The symptoms you describe are not an absolute that they are dyselxic, but it is learning towards probable, especially adding letters. Dyslexic kiddo's seem to love to do that and especially l and r. My 8/9yo did that for years, though she rarely does now.

 

If I were in your shoes I would start by giving him the Barton screening. You don't have to use or intend to use Barton for this screening to be valuable. It will tell you if there is a base Phonemic issue that needs to be dealt with BEFORE moving on to phonics/spelling/reading. My 8/9yo did learn to read despite it, but she couldn't hear the difference between short /i/ and /e/ in order to spell words, nor could she hear the sounds in blends till I went back wards and did LiPS with her.

 

You are looking at a lot of programs, and most of the one's I saw mentioned are strong programs, but I would encourage you to look at O/G based programs.

 

Spalding and SWR are excellent but will overwhelm some students because they cover all phonograms and spelling rules at once. Then spelling lists will have all sorts of words. In SWR by the 5th list you have short vowels, long vowels, diphthongs, schwas and multiple spelling rules. My 8/9yo was in tears daily because it was too much. My older two girls could read well before starting SWR and despite being dyslexic they could keep up with all the information. If you use one of those it might work, or it might not. A smart mom could take Spalding (Writing Road to Reading) and modify the lists so that they were grouped by rules to help a dyslexic student.

 

Phono-graphic methods, and ABC Darian (SP?) in particular looks fairly strong. I think the weakness is that it doesn't teach rules. I also have talked to 2 people who said their children were able to use the pictures as clues to the word and basically were memorizing the reading. I personally tried Reading Reflex and couldn't make it work. My 2nd dd could spell for a year before she could read, so she would spell the words perfectly, then couldn't blend them, unless I used the picture clues and then she just memorized the words. For a non dyslexic I wouldn't have a problem recommending it, but for a dyslexic I would actually recommend a full O/G program.

 

O/G program have key characteristics. Multi-sensory work, because the brain stores each sense in a different part of the brain, so if the child is having a processing issue in one part of the brain, then can use another part. Next is they are incremental. That means they teach one item at a time, to mastery. AAS is mostly designed this way, but at times it does introduce related concepts at once. Like with AAS the child learns the word in context but review is done outside of nice neat context. Like AAS syllable rules are emphasized, but unlike AAS o/g programs usually use nonsense words, which force the child to apply the rules and not use the context to guess. ABC Darian also uses nonsense words (to their credit), but Spalding and SWR do not. O/G programs have controlled readers, which means a word is not read that the child hasn't been directly taught. This means a child usually doesn't read outside material till they can read beyond a certain level. There was something else I was going to point out but it has now evaporated from my brain. :D

 

If you can afford it Barton reading is excellent. I have done it on my own with three kids (so it can be done), but there are so many little things in Barton that make it easier for both the teacher and child (ahhhh, I needed that). I worked with ds for 2 years, and so far Barton is much easier to use for both of us, and he seems to be making better progress, but we haven't been at it long, so the jury is still really out.

 

If you don't think he needs a full reading program, but just spelling with some reading, or if Barton's is way out of your budget, then I think AAS would work fine. You can use the AAS readers and then once you get to EE in AAS level 2 you can use the I See Sam Readers that Ottakee recommended. The I See Sam readers provide some of the best repetitive, but not easily guessed reading practice. It helped improve my 8/9yo's reading a lot (she is still using the series). I wish someone would make a full multi-sensory o/g program out of it (no I don't have the time). You could also buy the Recipe for Reading manual for additional helps/ideas as it is also O/G and cheap. Not idea but it is more affordable.

 

Let me know if you have questions!

 

Heather (dyslexic/dysgaphic hsing dyslexic/dysgraphic/dyscalculic students)