Holt Geometry 1992 vs. Teaching Textbooks

[vritz]

Without going into all the reasons as to why I'm considering these two curriculums, can anyone tell me if the Holt Geometry 1992 is more "rigorous" than Teaching Textbooks geometry? Thanks!

[Jann in TX]

The both teach basic proofs and formula work.

 

I've used the Holt text for YEARS--and I've had Algebra students who have used TT for Geometry. Both programs get the job done. If you use Holt the TE is a MUST as you will need to assign more than just the odds in each lesson--plus it contains more teaching helps and full answers.

 

I am switching over to the 2007 Holt Geometry (you get free video lessons by Dr Burger--who is the new main author if you have the codes from the student text) and I'll be using this text with my online classes next year. The Holt 2007 edition covers more material (advanced) than TT or the older Holt.

 

I have no problems with TT's Geometry--it is a standard high school level course with good explanations.

 

Jann

[vritz]

I've read many of your posts, Jann, and I appreciate your time and advice. In another post, you commented that with the Holt 1997 edition it would be difficult for a homeschooler to know what to assign since there was so much material. I'm not someone who needs to use the latest and greatest curriculum, so if an older edition/curriculum has proven itself well, I'm happy to use it. Plus with the difficulty of getting the teacher's materials for the 1997 edition and the higher cost, I was leaning towards the 1992 edition.

 

Did you make the change to Jacobs 3rd edition and now to Holt 1997 because you were dissatisfied with the Holt 1992 materials?

[Brindee]

Jann, how does LoF Geometry compare to TT? My ds, now 16, loved LoF, so I got the Geom. for him. He ended up going to school this year, so now I have that sitting on my shelf, and am wondering if I should use it for dd, or sell it and get something else? Just garnering ideas from those who know math better than I do!

[Jann in TX]

The main reason I switched from the Holt 1991/1992 (Nichols) edition to Jacobs was simply a case of 'supply and demand'--but more the demand part. Jacobs is a program that usually gets raves and it is one that the parents of interested students thought they could trust...we are using the 3rd edition and it just does not have the amount of practice and examples (very little in fact) that most of my students need--it is more 'Draw this and tell me what you think about it'---most of my students stare at their texts thinking 'NOTHING!'--when I demonstrate the concept to the student and show by example how it is used they are able to grasp it and then apply it.

 

I'm switching again from Jacobs because Jacobs has proven to be DIFFICULT to teach as it has a very narrow focus of learning styles that it 'reaches'. Some of my students are doing fine--and are really GETTING Jacobs... and several have been defeated and are struggling (I'm supplementing for them). I chose the 2007 edition of Holt because I was finally able to find the teacher supplements at a reasonable cost. It is a program that I will EASILY be able to adapt for various learning styles and levels. I'll be teaching a 'standard' and an 'honors' course. I prefer to have one solid program that I can adapt over searching through my stash of texts for supplements ALL. THE. TIME. I considered going back to the 1991/1992 edition of Holt because it is a solid course and is easy to teach from---but the newer edition has its perks too!.

 

The 2007 Holt is packed with concepts--a few too many to fit into a regular school year and cover well. The teacher will have to determine what can be skipped and what definitely should be covered. With all of the possible supplements just choosing the problems to assign will be a daunting task--but it will be FUN too (for a geek like me!). The TE does have suggested schedules in it though... It is just not 'open and go' as far as planning goes. This program also has EXCELLENT video lesson support. Dr Burger from Thinkwell is the new main author and has provided FREE online video lessons coordinated with the text lessons--you just need the student text or TE for the codes.

 

The downside for recommending the Holt 2007 set for homeschool use is that the supplement package (called the 'One-Stop Planner) is difficult to find at a reasonable cost. The OSP contains the TE, extra practice worksheets, re-teaching worksheets, quizzes, tests, test creator, challenge problems, WORKED OUT SOLUTIONS and more. Hopefully this summer more will become available as Holt is releasing the 2011 text this fall and some schools may switch to the newer edition.

--

 

As far as LOF Geometry--it is like many of the other independent programs and how well it works for your student will depend on how well it meshes with your student's learning style...just like Jacobs--it works for some but not for all!

[dovrar]

The main reason I switched from the Holt 1991/1992 (Nichols) edition to Jacobs was simply a case of 'supply and demand'--but more the demand part. Jacobs is a program that usually gets raves and it is one that the parents of interested students thought they could trust...we are using the 3rd edition and it just does not have the amount of practice and examples (very little in fact) that most of my students need--it is more 'Draw this and tell me what you think about it'---most of my students stare at their texts thinking 'NOTHING!'--when I demonstrate the concept to the student and show by example how it is used they are able to grasp it and then apply it.

 

I'm switching again from Jacobs because Jacobs has proven to be DIFFICULT to teach as it has a very narrow focus of learning styles that it 'reaches'. Some of my students are doing fine--and are really GETTING Jacobs... and several have been defeated and are struggling (I'm supplementing for them). I chose the 2007 edition of Holt because I was finally able to find the teacher supplements at a reasonable cost. It is a program that I will EASILY be able to adapt for various learning styles and levels. I'll be teaching a 'standard' and an 'honors' course. I prefer to have one solid program that I can adapt over searching through my stash of texts for supplements ALL. THE. TIME. I considered going back to the 1991/1992 edition of Holt because it is a solid course and is easy to teach from---but the newer edition has its perks too!.

 

The 2007 Holt is packed with concepts--a few too many to fit into a regular school year and cover well. The teacher will have to determine what can be skipped and what definitely should be covered. With all of the possible supplements just choosing the problems to assign will be a daunting task--but it will be FUN too (for a geek like me!). The TE does have suggested schedules in it though... It is just not 'open and go' as far as planning goes. This program also has EXCELLENT video lesson support. Dr Burger from Thinkwell is the new main author and has provided FREE online video lessons coordinated with the text lessons--you just need the student text or TE for the codes.

 

The downside for recommending the Holt 2007 set for homeschool use is that the supplement package (called the 'One-Stop Planner) is difficult to find at a reasonable cost. The OSP contains the TE, extra practice worksheets, re-teaching worksheets, quizzes, tests, test creator, challenge problems, WORKED OUT SOLUTIONS and more. Hopefully this summer more will become available as Holt is releasing the 2011 text this fall and some schools may switch to the newer edition.

--

 

As far as LOF Geometry--it is like many of the other independent programs and how well it works for your student will depend on how well it meshes with your student's learning style...just like Jacobs--it works for some but not for all!

 

Jann,

 

  Is the 1991/1992 the only older edition you would recommend?  I'm trying to find a used copy and am wondering if there are any other years that the text was published and was basically the same content.  Is the most important thing to be sure it is a Nichols edition?  When searching it looks like the 1986 version may be similar.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Debbie

 

 

[Jann in TX]

There was a layout change for the  1991/1992 edition.  It ( that particular edition)  was the leading Geometry text for a LONG time.

Nichols was the primary Holt high school math author for the 1970-1990's. 

 

The 1986 edition is a pretty visually bland text.  Very black and white...

 

The layout change in 1991 was much better-- easier to ready examples...

 

HTH

[dovrar]

Do you happen to have an ISBN # for the 1991/1992 edition?  The only thing I can find with the name Nichols on it that says 1991 has the title Holt Geometry 1986 is this what I'm looking for? 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Geometry-1986-Eugene-D-Nichols/dp/0030054079/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375669550&sr=1-3&keywords=holt+geometry+nichols

 

I can't find anything that lists a publication date of 1992.

 

Thanks again  ; )

[Jann in TX]

Your link was correct-- the Amazon description was not (not uncommon for older books).

 

The blue marble/sphere cover is the 1991/1992 edition.  ISBN  is 0030054079 

 

The 1986 edition has a triangular building on the cover (and a bland/boring interior!)

 

 The isnb for the 1991/1992 TE is 0030054087

It is always a good idea to e-mail a seller to confirm the blue sphere on the cover.

The TE-- called the ATE (annotated teachers edition) was only made hard bound-- slightly larger than student text.  Often times it is listed as 'paperback' and some sellers will get confused!

 

For those who are curious this is a standard text-- good simple examples, lots of proofs-- and incredibly CHEAP (since it was the most popular series when it was published so used copies in good condition abound.  There are still school districts in the USA  using this program.

 

Note: the only concept it lacks (based on ACT/SAT)  is the Law of Cosines/Law of Cosines.  Other basic Trig is part of Chapter 9-- so it would be easy to insert it there.

 

 

[dovrar]

Your link was correct-- the Amazon description was not (not uncommon for older books).

 

The blue marble/sphere cover is the 1991/1992 edition.  ISBN  is 0030054079 

 

The 1986 edition has a triangular building on the cover (and a bland/boring interior!)

 

 The isnb for the 1991/1992 TE is 0030054087

It is always a good idea to e-mail a seller to confirm the blue sphere on the cover.

The TE-- called the ATE (annotated teachers edition) was only made hard bound-- slightly larger than student text.  Often times it is listed as 'paperback' and some sellers will get confused!

 

For those who are curious this is a standard text-- good simple examples, lots of proofs-- and incredibly CHEAP (since it was the most popular series when it was published so used copies in good condition abound.  There are still school districts in the USA  using this program.

 

Note: the only concept it lacks (based on ACT/SAT)  is the Law of Cosines/Law of Cosines.  Other basic Trig is part of Chapter 9-- so it would be easy to insert it there.

 

Thanks for clearing this up for me.  I thought I was going crazy.  ; )

 

 

[dovrar]

So, what do I do as far as tests if I go with the 1991/1992 Nichols edition? 

[Jann in TX]

The tests in the text are fine.  The answers are in the ATE not the student text.

 

I need to add that there is one area that will need supplementing if your student will not have Pre-Calc/Trig before the ACT test.  This text teaches basic Trig (Soh-Cah-Toa) but it does not go over Law of Sines and Law of Cosines (there are 2-3 questions on ACT over these--NO questions on the SAT).  They take just a few minutes to explain...

[dovrar]

Thanks for your help.