Which math program for THIS kid?

[Colleen in SEVA]

Please help me find a math curriculum for my "different learner" son G (and by that, I mean he learns completely different from how most people learn, outside-the-box, up-in-the-clouds, but very bright). Lucky for me, my husband also learns in this way and can usually tell right away what will work for him and what will not.

 

Background: He hasn't had a lot of formal math instruction, he just sort of understands math and any time I try to teach him, he already knows how to do it. He figured out adding/subtracting negative numbers all on his own a couple years ago (Him: "If you have 2 cookies and I take away 3, how many do you have?" Me: "I would have negative 1." Him: "Oh! So if I have 3 cookies and you take away negative 1 cookie I would have 4 cookies?").

 

We tried Right Start, but I just could not teach it. I have used Singapore Math with my oldest from Earlybird to 6B, and it is exactly how I think. I have been trying to teach G with Singapore, but I know at some point I just won't know how to explain things to him (my oldest thinks like me, so this hasn't been a problem). I think he would do well with Right Start if only I could teach it (not sure what about it, it just seems like him).

 

He loves computers. And by LOVES computers, I mean he would spend every waking moment on the computer if I would let him. He was able to log onto his own account, go to bookmarked sites, and navigate around them at a scary young age. I bought Timez Attack for my oldest to help him with the speed on his times tables, and G mastered the entire game in 10 days even though he had never heard of multiplication.

 

He just seems to learn math concepts through osmosis, figuring out the patterns. He doesn't just cut a pizza, he notices that the number of pieces created is twice the number of cuts and asks me if he cuts the pizza 42 times if there will be 84 pieces.

 

He doesn't have the basics down though, at least not solid enough that I feel comfortable skipping levels in math (he is currently in 1B, but it is boring for him). I also don't think he is ready for the complicated word problems in the higher level of Singapore.

 

I thought about Teaching Textbooks for him, the level 3 will be coming out in April and he scored well enough on the placement test to go into that level (the only problems he skipped were multi-digit add/subtract with regrouping, which he can do with base 10 blocks but I have never shown him how to do on paper, I think he COULD have done them if he knew it was the same algorithm he already knows with the blocks). The down side is that it doesn't seem like it will challenge him down the road. He thrives on challenge! I was also unimpressed with the word problems in the samples (but will ANY program compare to the Challenging Word Problems of Singapore Math? LOL!).

 

I thought about Math-U-See because there is a DVD and online drill, but I have no idea how to place him level wise. He really needs to go through Beta, but the thought of spending an entire year on something he could learn in a few days is not a positive one. I worry he would get through that program too quickly. Though....... perhaps a pass through Math-U-See and then a pass through Singapore? Then again, I have a friend who used Math-U-See and it seemed like waaaaaaaaaaaay too much review in each lesson.

 

I have Miquon, but it just doesn't do much for me. Can I just hand him the program and let him work it out? Then what -- Key To books?

 

I looked at ALEKS, I don't think it would be a good fit for him. There doesn't seem to be a lot of teaching, and it seems to be more mastering facts and processes, and not a lot of analysis and high level concepts.

 

I briefly looked at ProfB math, but I couldn't figure out how the samples worked (how bad is that?!?). I will take another look if someone suggests this.

 

I have the first 4 Life of Fred books for my oldest, but there is NO WAY G will be ready for that for a long time, if ever. It's not really his style, as I had my husband look at it and he sort of glossed over at the wordiness of it.

 

I suspect G may be dyslexic. We are currently going through the diagnosis process, but he has over 20 of the 34 warning signs on Barton's list.

 

So... what do you think? What math program fits a kid who understands high level concepts but has some lower level holes to fill in? What program will keep him challenged but not jump in at the deep end? Ideally it would be something that I would not have to teach him myself (sometimes it feels like he and I speak different languages ha ha), and if it is computer based he would be a super happy kid.

 

Thank you so much for reading through all of this!! I would love to hear your thoughts! :)

[Poke Salad Annie]

This is just my opinion, but I think he would love the puzzle and logic style of MEP math. It's free, and you could print off just the first week or so of lessons without much commitment. Actually, you would only need to print off the practice pages, as you could read the lesson pages online---at least that's how I do it.

 

We are loving it, and it's working very well for my child who sees things differently too.

 

I wanted to add that MEP sets the stage for learning algebraic concepts early. That's one of the reasons why we love it so much. It is so logical. In fact, our latest catch phrase with math is "Prove It!". We were working factor trees today after working through a puzzle which inspired us in that direction. Fun!

Edited February 2, 2010 by Poke Salad Annie

[Colleen in SEVA]

Thank you for reminding me of MEP! I always forget about it, though I know I bookmarked it at one point. Is this something that could be his only math program, or is it mostly a supplement? It seems like most people who use it only supplement with it.

 

And thank you for reading my post... after I saw how long it got, I didn't think anyone would actually read it. ha ha.

[Storm Bay]

I would steer clear of TT for a ds this mathy. My highly math eldest found it far too easy. My mathy dc learned their facts just by doing math. You're saying he can't learn the SM way?

 

Here's what I did for my middle dd who definitely learns math her own way. I combined SM along with MUS. You DON'T need to take an entire year per level of MUS, nor do you need to do every exercise, and there is more in Beta than just addition & subtraction, such as shapes & perimeter. If you're doing both, it helps with the variety. Plus, sometimes Mr. Demme convinced dd to do things she was vehemently opposed to such as regrouping. When you get to Gamma you also learn things such as area, etc. We just moved as quickly as we needed to, and I let her move along in SM even as she was still learning math facts. You could try MEP at http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm Her FAVOURITE math program is the Russian math book we bought from Perpendicular Press http://www.perpendicularpress.com (it would come after SM 6, though, but there is a lot of arithmetic in it and some pre-Algebra). She loved it and said it taught her the most, which is the first time she's loved a math book. It forced her to learn the linguistic aspects of math, too, which were tough for her because she's so highly vs.

 

If you get a book to help you master the model method, that could help you a great deal with SM. Many times when my dd was stuck I would help her by drawing those bar diagrams. How I wish I'd known how important they were from the first time they appeared.

 

ETA while I was typing this, someone else also recommended MEP.

[Flaura]

Have you looked at the HIGs for the Singapore standards edition. They do a great job of explaining concepts for the teacher. Honestly, Singapore is the best program for kids who "get it". It sounds like he could zoom through it and not be bogged down by too much review.

 

HTH

[Donna T.]

Your child sounds very, very much like my youngest son. For now, he is using both Singapore and MUS. MUS is very good for a child like that. They can move along at their own pace. My son does one practice page and one review page for each lesson. I am only supplementing with Singapore because it gives him something different to consider. He doesn't especially like math (for school I mean) and I attribute that to my use of a formal curriculum. I really wish I had the guts to delay formal math another year or so and just give him time to grow in maturity before working through a program. But, I don't and so we are doing the combo. I can't say that he loves it. He loves math but not math teaching!!

Edited February 2, 2010 by Donna T.

[Poke Salad Annie]

We use it as our primary math program. I do supplement with the old Strayer-Upton text, just for extra quick drill and word problems, but that is not necessary.

 

I'm sorry, but I have no experience with dyslexia, so I'm no help there. I also am not sure about the computer-based math. My child does enjoy the Math Workshop Cd-Rom game, but does not work with it every day.

 

After reading over your post again, I'm wondering if it might help to find out about the dyslexia diagnosis first, then go from there. I don't know how far you are into the process of doing so though...

 

You also say that you would prefer for it to be an independent type program. MEP is not independent oriented math. It is quite teacher dependent in its truest sense. I get out our large dry erase board, and we start working through the lesson. Usually the lesson begins with an oral review of some concept previously covered---this seems to be a warm-up. Then the lesson gets into the worksheet part. I do the first problem with him, and ask if he has any questions. We draw it out on the board if needed. Just *seeing* the problem done is a great help, and it really does work to cement the lesson in his mind. It doesn't take that long to do a lesson. The stated time of 45 mins. on the lessons page is for a classroom. We usually cover a lesson in about 20-25 mins. or so.

 

A lesson we covered last week included showing solution sets on a number line. When my child answered this problem, he marked the number line with colored pencil at the appropriate points, but he also marked in a different color the parameters. I asked him what those were, and he said, "Those are the limits." Wow! Lesson done for the day. And all of this from a free math program. It is really turning little gears in his mind and making it work in ways that other programs did not. We actually started out with MUS, but it did not work for us. I think it was just not interesting enough. We then started with MEP, and we haven't looked back.

[Colleen in SEVA]

Karin -- I do have the book from Perpendicular Press (bought it for my oldest, we sometimes add things in from other programs when he needs a brain break from SM), and yes the Model Method books are very helpful. I don't have a problem teaching SM, mostly my problem is teaching this particular child. I think he *COULD* learn the SM way, I just feel like there should be something out there better suited for him. Can you please share details on how you combined MUS & SM?

 

Flaura -- Yes, I have the HIG for the 1B Standards and it does help with how to explain it. I have the US Edition from my oldest, but bought the 1B Standards to compare since the tables of contents are identical. If I stick with Singapore for him, I will probably add the HIG for each level even though I didn't feel I needed it for my oldest.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I will add one more thing about using MEP.

 

Once you get used to teaching with it, you begin to feel comfortable, and it's not much trouble at all. I think it's a matter of just getting past the first several lessons, then you begin to have a good feel for how they look at problems. Once you are comfortable with how it works, your lessons will take off, and you should begin to have a shared enjoyment with the lessons. When we first started using it I was a bit hesitant, as I had not seen any kind of math like it before. Now we both enjoy the lessons, and math is our favorite time of the day. I never hear complaints about doing math, and that says a lot! :)

 

Editing to add... I don't want to sway you one way or the other. I shouldn't write that MEP works for everyone. I'm sure it might not. It does work for us, and I think it's in large part because it is such a special program. Sorry for sounding like a math commercial.

[Storm Bay]

Karin -- I do have the book from Perpendicular Press (bought it for my oldest, we sometimes add things in from other programs when he needs a brain break from SM), and yes the Model Method books are very helpful. I don't have a problem teaching SM, mostly my problem is teaching this particular child. I think he *COULD* learn the SM way, I just feel like there should be something out there better suited for him. Can you please share details on how you combined MUS & SM?

 

.

 

 

We're a do-what-comes next family for the most part. I didn't bother correlating the two programs most of the time. It was too difficult and I didn't see a point to it.

 

However, when it came to Epsilon & Zeta (fractions & decimals) it worked well, because dd was doing SM 5 with Epsilon & SM 6 with Zeta, so she got lots of time to really work on fractions. DD tended to forget the rules for multiplying & dividing fractions after a break. Russian Math helped cement this this past year, but if she ever forgets again, she can do LoF Fractions (or at least part of it.) She also did a couple of the Key to Fractions books and loved those as well.

 

For my ds, we're going to use LoF Fractions & Decimals along with SM 5 & 6. He's done MUS Primer-Gamma, but I'm not sure if he'll continue with it as he's different than dd. He really enjoys working with fractions, so he's doing the 2 Key to Books dd didn't need. I forgot about those.

 

Also, does your ds like doing other heuristic things such as guess and check, etc? I have a great book on that, but it's out of print. It was designed to help with Challenging Math Problems or something like that.They do some of that with MEP (ds did some of MEP 3 this summer for summer math and that was something I remember seeing there. He loved the games. I don't like it better than SM, but am planning to use some more of it next summer.)

 

I tend to think outside the box and one of the things I can usually do is find a different way to teach something (learned that teaching piano.) I think it would help to do SM simply for the heuristics as it really is the best out there for that.

 

MUS isn't the best fit for everyone and as much as I really enjoy it, I don't think it's enough for such a mathy dc who obviously needs a lot of challenges.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Karin

[ELaurie]

and it has been an excellent fit for ds 7, who intuitively understands math.

 

Professor B Math is a mastery based program that does an excellent job of explaining mathematical theory in terms that learners can readily grasp an retain. The program can easily be tailored to meet a child's learning needs, allowing for a highly individualized level of instruction.

 

I have been astounded by the things my dc are learning; ds 7 readily understood how to add and subtract 15 digit numbers (with an understanding of place value) in the fall of 2nd grade. He is now mastering his multiplication facts; ds 10 is furnishing level 2, working with prime factorization, mixed numbers, and decimals.

 

I use the Key to . . . series to teach concepts such as geometry and measurement, and I am using LoF with ds 10 as a fun supplement.

 

I just checked the links for sample lessons and they seem to be working if you decide to give this program a 2nd look :001_smile:

 

ETA: This progam is computer based, althoug hte lessons are not designed for the child to work through them independently.

 

Ds 10 is not dyslexic, but he has visual processing issues, so the fact that a significant portion of this program can be completed orally was a real plus for us when we were still attempting to re mediate some of those issues.

Edited February 2, 2010 by ELaurie

[SonshineLearner]

I'd look at the living math site. They have tons of ideas. Also, reading the living math books like Cindy Neuschwander's. You can check out tons at the library:-)