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Questions about TOG (year 1) and Dialectic stage dc...

SS in MD

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I'm considering using TOG (Year 1) in the fall with dc. 12 yo (dialectic), 10 yo (UG), 7 yo (LG). For Dialectic stage dd, I also wanted to use LL7. Now I am wondering would this be over kill along with TOG? I looked at TOG Year 1 scope and sequence to see iwhat type of literary analysis it covered for Dialectic stage, but it didn't say much about it (scope & Sequence was more in depth for Rhetoric level). So, anyone who has done year 1 for DA stage, is there a good amount of literary anaylsis? Or should I add LL7. I wanted to use LL7 because it looks really good. But, dd will then need to read more than what's required in TOG... just don't know if that would be too much.... any thoughts?! help... :confused:


P.S also, (BIG question here) How do you typically schedule your TOG week?

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I'm not sure what LL is, so I cannot answer that. I am currently on unit 4 of TOG redesigned year 1 with a 7th grader, 5th grader, and K. My 7th grader has done dialectic, my 5th grader has read all of the dialectic and has done a lot of the dialectic work, but not all. As far as literary analysis, there is not a ton for the dialectic in year 1. It was mainly plot, characterization, setting, etc. and a few literary elements (simile, metaphonr, etc.) I think part of that is because the Bible is a HUGE part of the curriculum this year and there isn't a lot of literature to analyze. I've been skimming my TOG redesigned year 2 and there is a lot more analysis in there. Also... there is a HUGE and I mean HUGE difference between the literature between dialectic and rhetoric. The literary analysis for rhetoric is college level in my opinion. So.. you might be able to look at the rhetoric and add a little bit of it to the dialectic. I am going to do a modified version of the rhetoric literature for oldest who will be 8th grade next year to ease into it for both his and my sake. That is one thing I LOVE about this curriculum. The information is all there and I love being able to modify and take pieces from the various levels as they fit. I honestly do not know that I would use another literature program with TOG. There is SO much in there, it would be overkill. There were some weeks that I stretched out and then there were some weeks that I combined because all there were were Bible readings and my children knew the stories and I did not think knowing all of the judges/kings was all that important!!! We wanted to get on to Ancient Greece!!!


As far as scheduling. On Friday afternoons they get out their notebooks. I had already run off all of their student activity pages and reading lists ahead of time. We go over what we will be studying and when things will be due according to what is going on the next week. Generally, I tell them that all of their history reading and questions need to be done by Thursday . On Friday morning we have our discussions over the material. We also go over the maps then as well. Their literature and SAP's must also be done by Friday. Sometimes they finish them up or recopy them on Friday afternoon. Depending on how long the discussion takes in the morning we either plan the next week then or in the afternoon. I schedule my 5th grader as he seems incapable or unwilling to do so. My 7th grader takes out his blank planner and goes to town planning his week. He likes being able to decide when he will read what.


We haven't done much of the writing component this year even though it is very good because they have both been taking speech at the co-op and then my oldest was taking an IEW intensive writing class and his Texas history class had a couple of papers each semester so that was enough writing in my opinion. My 5th grader did more of the writing that went with TOG because he has more time. If you have any other questions, let me know.



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Thanks for your post. Sorry LL7 stands for "Lightning Literature (grade 7). From Hewitt. It's a literature guide with comprehension and literature analysis. I've really heard great things about it.


I had a few follow-up questions-


Can you tell me, on the reading charts in TOG (I'm looking at the Go to Egypt sample), what is required? The history core, in-depth, worldview?... there seems to be two literature catagories on the charts (a little confused by this)


Do you schedule activities throughout the week? Have you found them do-able? I'm thinking of just purchasing kits (with everything inside!) primarily for my young two dc (2nd and 5th).


Are teacher notes are for the mom (or dad) to read, not for dialectic dc to read?


Also, I'm assuming dialectic history questions and accountability questions come from dc history reading? Do you have your dc do these orally w/you or written? On friday you said you discuss materials would that be history questions? Do you also go over Student Activity Pages (I think this is the literature worksheets)??


Thanks SO much for your help!!


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As far as the accountability/thinking ?s: I have my son just read over and prepare the accountability ?s, but write out the thinking ?s. Those exercises help him prepare for our discussions.


The different reading assignments: there are "core" (or, you could say, required) readings, and "indepth" readings, which you can opt out of if it is a busy week. The "alternate" reading suggestions are just that....you could add them in, or switch the "required" for the "alternates" if you wanted. I have done this at time when my dc didn't like a book.


Teacher notes are for mom/dad BUT sometimes I have had my kids read them if they haven't found enough info in their weekly resources to grasp what we're studying, or can't find the answers to their thinking questions.


I follow the scripted questions for Dialectic History discussions.


HTH!! Year One is wonderful! enjoy!

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Ok , let us look at the week 3 of the Go to Egypt Sample. On page 4 are the selections that are recommended for you to be able to answer the questions. The history and history in-depth will allow you dialectic child to answer the history questions on p. 16 both acountablity and thinking. Now, that said, you can substitute sources if you want as the history questions are about topic. So on p5 they give you alternate resources if you wish. I also take Learning Through History Magazine and that helps. The only think is that the answers to the questions will definitely be found in their first page of resources and they may not be in your own creation. Now , in literature they are reading part of Tales of Ancient Egypt. In this book there are just some questions for them to answer on p. 16. Most weeks, there is a worksheet that goes with the literature selection, but not this week. To be honest, I didn't do the fine arts, but if you want to you need the Ancient Egyptians that they recommend pn p. 4. For Bible Church history on p 4 they are supposed to read Ex. 6-18 and about 6 pages in Understanding Jewish Holidays and customs. On p. 17 you have a chart they are supposed to fill out about the plagues and what they mean and then some questions to answer. I think I had to help them with the meaning of the plagues. Finally, the map assignment is on p. 16 and a Bible Atlas and World Atlas are helpful throughout the year. This particular week, the mapwork is light. You just trace the route as they fled from Egypt. It makes up for the heavier work, the week before.


The teacher's notes are basically for you to read, but you could have your child read from them if you don't have the right resources or there aren't any for the week. I lectured from them one week when I told them about the Amalekites (sp) Amorites, Edomites, etc. A lot of the teacher's notes come from the World Book Encyclopedia. Then on p. 29 you will see the dialectic discussion outline. It gives you a guide about what to go over. Now I will be honest. In unit 1 I had a little trouble with the dialectic discussion because it wasn't organized like the rhetoric and it didn't always go over their questions. By unit 2, the discussion outlines were much better for dialectic or maybe I just got better at it. I'm not sure. On p. 31-32 it goes over the answers to their worksheets for literature. On p. 38 it has the dialect Bible discussion. I always read over the rhetoric discussion outlines as well as there is good information in there and sometimes you need it with dialectic.


For history and Bible questions, they jot down their answers in a notebook they have. They don't even have to be readable for me, just so they have something written down and have thought about the questions. They hand me their literature worksheets done very neatly on Friday for me to grade and basically I just look over it to make sure it is done. They do not have literature discussion for dialectic and to be honest, there wasn't much great "literature." Look at the rhetoric level and you will see how extensive it is. They are analyzing a poem in detail for meaning. There is a lot of notes and a lot of discussion for rhetoric level. When I get there, I'm thinking I might discuss the history on Thursday and the literature on Friday. Especially in year 3 they are using medieval frameworks and all sort of literary devices and I'm thinking it would take an hour or 2 just to discuss the literature at the rhetoric level.


I wasn't sure what you meant by activities...outside activities?? The fine art activities?? To be honest, I'm not artsy craftsy and we hardly did any at all. We did make some pyramids, and assembled a predone Tabernacle, and made a Greek shield, but that has been about it. There are tons of ideas and books they suggest, but I just haven't found/made the time.



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