Have to say. . . MCT, W&M, AoPS. . .

[StephanieZ]

Over the last week, I've received my first set of curriculum from each of these publishers. I've been staying up late every night over my holiday reading them, writing lesson plans, etc.

 

MCT - Town set

 

W&M (Kendall Hunt) - Utopia

 

AoPS - Counting & Probability

 

I have to say, these are exceptional materials. I am VERY excited to have them on board. I've been around the block many times, been hs'ing all the way TWTM style. . . been pretty darn happy with what we've used in the past. . .

 

But, these curricula targeted at gifted kids ARE really, really, super. New horizons, awesome stuff. Great timing for me. . . as I was getting a little bored myself. I tell you what, I will NOT be bored using any of these three programs.

 

If you have gifted dc and haven't seen these publishers before, I highly advise checking them out!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you, other moms here who mentioned these programs so I could check them out! Y'all ROCK!

 

:)

[Capt_Uhura]

Thanks for the recs. What is W&M-Utopia?

 

We're embarking with MCT tomorrow and I'm very excited!

 

Capt_Uhura

[StephanieZ]

Thanks for the recs. What is W&M-Utopia?

 

We're embarking with MCT tomorrow and I'm very excited!

 

Capt_Uhura

 

http://cfge.wm.edu/curr_language.htm

[4 Gifts]

StephanieZ,

 

How do you plan on using the W&M stuff with the MCT? I have been looking at starting MCT with my 8 yr old ds next year and am open to other suggestions. Will you be using the Jacob's ladder and navigator items as part of the Utopia unit study? Sorry I am confused:confused:.

Wendy

[rowan25]

Over the last week, I've received my first set of curriculum from each of these publishers. I've been staying up late every night over my holiday reading them, writing lesson plans, etc.

 

MCT - Town set

 

W&M (Kendall Hunt) - Utopia

 

AoPS - Counting & Probability

 

I have to say, these are exceptional materials. I am VERY excited to have them on board. I've been around the block many times, been hs'ing all the way TWTM style. . . been pretty darn happy with what we've used in the past. . .

 

But, these curricula targeted at gifted kids ARE really, really, super. New horizons, awesome stuff. Great timing for me. . . as I was getting a little bored myself. I tell you what, I will NOT be bored using any of these three programs.

 

If you have gifted dc and haven't seen these publishers before, I highly advise checking them out!

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you, other moms here who mentioned these programs so I could check them out! Y'all ROCK!

 

:)

You got it in??!!! How does it look? What age? Tell me all the gory details!! I haven't heard anything about my preview copies. I'm planning on just ordering later on in the spring/early summer.

[StephanieZ]

StephanieZ,

 

How do you plan on using the W&M stuff with the MCT? I have been looking at starting MCT with my 8 yr old ds next year and am open to other suggestions. Will you be using the Jacob's ladder and navigator items as part of the Utopia unit study? Sorry I am confused:confused:.

Wendy

 

 

My current plan is to use MCT Town with ds10 and dd13 over the next 4-5 months. (They've both had lots of R&S English, and a reasonable amount of IEW writing. . . so I expect this level to be easy for them.) They are both still doing IEW writing (ancient history lessons). I am letting them both drop R&S. (MIDBOOK!! Egads!! Stephanie the box checker is stopping mid book!!!)

 

I plan to use Utopia with dd13 next year as a literature/language arts/writing/vocab thing. Honestly, it doesn't look completely beyond ds10, but I don't need/want that additional stuff for him next year. dd13 & ds10 do many subjects together, including SonLight, and next year they'll do Core 7 together. (That might be dd's last SL year. . .) DD13 is obviously a faster, more proficient reader and so the cores are always a bit easy for her but right on for dd10, so I look to add challenge for her. Next year, that'll be Utopia.

 

I plan to use MCT Voyage for both of them next year as well. . . taking the whole year to do it. That'll take less time for dd13 and more for ds10. . . so should be just fine.

[StephanieZ]

You got it in??!!! How does it look? What age? Tell me all the gory details!! I haven't heard anything about my preview copies. I'm planning on just ordering later on in the spring/early summer.

 

 

Oh, I am super excited about it!!! It looks amazing!! The stories are intriguing, enjoyable, etc. Might not be for everyone, but I am incredibly excited about it.

 

I think the recommended ages of 7th-9th grade looks spot on for my kids, but obviously would vary a lot with kids' developmental spot, etc.

 

It is a BIG book -- the Teachers' Guide is 358 pp. The student "booklet" is 101 pp!! The student booklet is a bind up of the short stories, essays, poems, etc that are used in the program. The only OTHER stuff I'll need to obtain are the few novels, etc (Lord of the Flies, The Giver, Animal Farm, Midsummer's Night Dream. . .) Plus, you'll need to access some art for viewing but they provide internet addresses to view it online.

 

The Teacher's Guide seems very useful. The focus of the program seems to be 1) Literature (understanding & analyzing) and 2) Writing (clarity, expression, organization -- ideally the 4-6 paragraph well organized essay) There are lots of supporting materials to help you teach what they want. . . But it is mainly a learn-by-doing thing. . . Assign an essay prompt. . . grade essay on these criteria. . . Rinse. . . Repeat. It does NOT walk you through teaching them about topic sentences, etc. (At least not so far as I have noticed yet, so if it does it is pretty subtley tucked in here or there.) So, I do think the student would be more successful with the program if they had already learned the basics of putting together an essay. If the child had the basics down, this program could be an AWESOME way to practice those essay skills while actually learning quality content instead of writing multitudes of meaningless essays just for the sake of learning the form. There's also some good vocab work and some other stuff, too. It's just jam packed with cool stuff, IMHO.

 

It is definitely intended for classroom use, so there is some jargon and organizational stuff that isn't exactly pick-up-n-go, but I have just spent a few hours with it and I already have a good feel for how it will work and I've started typing up my own lesson plans. . . Doing that is helping me see how it all fits together. I love that they have so much laid out for you. . . They even have "grading rubrics" for essays, etc. I've never used that kind of stuff, but honestly it'll be very helpful for me to have clear expectations for what I want from her writing, etc. There are prompts to research historical stuff and relate it to what you're reading. There are lots of connections to make, things to analyze, compare/contrast, etc etc. Tons of opportunities to assign analytical essays!!

 

So far, I laid out the first "lesson" (20 pp of the Teacher's Guide) into my own lesson plans. . . Only 23 more lessons to go, lol. I am not sure I'll need to do this for all of them, as they are laid out clearly and well organized, but doing this is helping me see the system so I think I'll do this for at least the first 5 lessons or so. . . After doing it that way for a few weeks, maybe I'll be able to just pick up the book and go. . . But not right off the bat.

 

I think the program was intended to be one semester's worth of LA, but I think it could easily be a year, especially if you are doing some other stuff (which we will be -- IEW, etc.).

 

Based on what I've seen so far. . .Types of activities include vocab analysis (they have lists from the readings), and lots of analyzing the readings. . . comparing the stories to each other, analyzing themes, describing YOUR responses/values as they relate to the themes, etc. Lots of discussion prompts (very Socratic and analytical. No story summaries here!! This is meaty and analytical), writing prompts, etc.

 

I think being able to write a decent 5 paragraph essay will be a big jump start on being able to get the most out of the materials. I had planned to do more formal essay instruction for dd13 prior to this, and seeing it has confirmed that decision. We'll do IEW's Elegant Essay this summer and then she'll do MCT's Voyage level next year along with her brother.

 

The only aspect of LA that Utopia doesn't include is Grammar. . . and do you know what they recommend??!?!?! MCT's Magic Lens!! LOL!! Hahahaha!! Grammar instruction doesn't appear at all integrated into Utopia, so you could use any grammar (or none at all if dc is DONE) simultneously and it won't matter a lick.

 

The program would lend itself VERY well to a small group (3-5 students) class as there are many discussion elements, but I think it would also be very adaptable for even just 1 student, just so long as the parent was doing the reading and involved with the student in discussions, etc. The back and forth discussion seems very integral (and very Socratic!!) so if you can do two students or more, I think that would be extra cool. I am considering having one other friend join us in this study next year.

 

CAVEAT: These readings have serious themes. Mentions are made of sex, orgies, etc are made in the very first short story!! Themes of sacrifice, etc are throughout the literature. (Is it Right to allow one person to (really, truly) suffer so that the rest of a community can thrive?) These are *real* books and stories, generally not ones written for kids. So, in a description of a Utopia, there may be mentions of free flowing drugs & guilt free sex. . . human euthanasia, human sacrifice, etc. . . (So far) I haven't found anything offensive to ME, but I am ready for dd13 to read these things and discuss them. I think context is important, and I am ready for this. I mean, the world is pretty ugly, and I can't avoid that forever! But, obviously, one might want to preread some of the literature before committing to it, especially if your child is on the younger age range (and this is probably a good reason NOT to go younger than the recommended age ranges for these programs!)

 

The first story is The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas by Ursula K LeGuin. (drugs, sex, orgies!) Here is a link to the entire text:

 

http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt

 

So, read that story and others that are listed in the Teacher's Guide (you can google up the full text of virtually any short story or poem!) to get a feel for the literature. And/or read a summary of the longer texts if you aren't already familiar with them.

 

(And, yes, I am keeping it for sure, so I am happy to sell you one or more of the Student Booklets, as I had to buy a set of 10!! I'll sell them for $9 for the first one ppd, $7 ppd for each additional. Just PM me if you want one. . . Non-cc paypal. No returns, please, so, if you aren't sure you want it, buy the Teachers Guide first from the publisher to make sure you want it!)

 

HTH. Sorry I am rambling but I am just figuring it out! It is energizing and exciting for me to delve into such a quality program. Such a nice change of pace!! I can't wait to start having these conversations and get dd writing on such interesting things.

[JeanM]

I'm curious about the AoPS - Counting & Probability. Do you think it is intended to be a full curriculum for a year?

 

I'm thinking about using it next year for my ds who is currently using Life of Fred beginning algebra. Do you think it would be better after algebra 2?

 

Thanks for the recommendations!

[StephanieZ]

I'm curious about the AoPS - Counting & Probability. Do you think it is intended to be a full curriculum for a year?

 

I'm thinking about using it next year for my ds who is currently using Life of Fred beginning algebra. Do you think it would be better after algebra 2?

 

Thanks for the recommendations!

 

I think AoPS Counting & Prob is intended as a semester. The AoPS website has very straightforward placement tests. I'd have your ds do the appropriate placement test after he is done w/ Alg 1 to see if he is ready with just Alg 1.

 

The AoPS sequence seems to be alg 1 & alg 2 both prior to the other courses (C&P, etc.) but you'd have to know what was covered in your son's course(s) vs AoPS's courses. . . so the placement test might be the way to go.

[rowan25]

That was wonderful!!!! You sound so excited! :) Alright, I have to get a hold of the book for my age range. I'm looking 1st-2nd grade for over here. But what you describe is what I'm looking for, just lower down. I really hope they send me a preview copy. I can't afford to buy it now, but it is definitely on the list for the late spring/early summer. Thank you so much!!!!!!!! :)

 

Oh, I am super excited about it!!! It looks amazing!! The stories are intriguing, enjoyable, etc. Might not be for everyone, but I am incredibly excited about it.

 

I think the recommended ages of 7th-9th grade looks spot on for my kids, but obviously would vary a lot with kids' developmental spot, etc.

 

It is a BIG book -- the Teachers' Guide is 358 pp. The student "booklet" is 101 pp!! The student booklet is a bind up of the short stories, essays, poems, etc that are used in the program. The only OTHER stuff I'll need to obtain are the few novels, etc (Lord of the Flies, The Giver, Animal Farm, Midsummer's Night Dream. . .) Plus, you'll need to access some art for viewing but they provide internet addresses to view it online.

 

The Teacher's Guide seems very useful. The focus of the program seems to be 1) Literature (understanding & analyzing) and 2) Writing (clarity, expression, organization -- ideally the 4-6 paragraph well organized essay) There are lots of supporting materials to help you teach what they want. . . But it is mainly a learn-by-doing thing. . . Assign an essay prompt. . . grade essay on these criteria. . . Rinse. . . Repeat. It does NOT walk you through teaching them about topic sentences, etc. (At least not so far as I have noticed yet, so if it does it is pretty subtley tucked in here or there.) So, I do think the student would be more successful with the program if they had already learned the basics of putting together an essay. If the child had the basics down, this program could be an AWESOME way to practice those essay skills while actually learning quality content instead of writing multitudes of meaningless essays just for the sake of learning the form. There's also some good vocab work and some other stuff, too. It's just jam packed with cool stuff, IMHO.

 

It is definitely intended for classroom use, so there is some jargon and organizational stuff that isn't exactly pick-up-n-go, but I have just spent a few hours with it and I already have a good feel for how it will work and I've started typing up my own lesson plans. . . Doing that is helping me see how it all fits together. I love that they have so much laid out for you. . . They even have "grading rubrics" for essays, etc. I've never used that kind of stuff, but honestly it'll be very helpful for me to have clear expectations for what I want from her writing, etc. There are prompts to research historical stuff and relate it to what you're reading. There are lots of connections to make, things to analyze, compare/contrast, etc etc. Tons of opportunities to assign analytical essays!!

 

So far, I laid out the first "lesson" (20 pp of the Teacher's Guide) into my own lesson plans. . . Only 23 more lessons to go, lol. I am not sure I'll need to do this for all of them, as they are laid out clearly and well organized, but doing this is helping me see the system so I think I'll do this for at least the first 5 lessons or so. . . After doing it that way for a few weeks, maybe I'll be able to just pick up the book and go. . . But not right off the bat.

 

I think the program was intended to be one semester's worth of LA, but I think it could easily be a year, especially if you are doing some other stuff (which we will be -- IEW, etc.).

 

Based on what I've seen so far. . .Types of activities include vocab analysis (they have lists from the readings), and lots of analyzing the readings. . . comparing the stories to each other, analyzing themes, describing YOUR responses/values as they relate to the themes, etc. Lots of discussion prompts (very Socratic and analytical. No story summaries here!! This is meaty and analytical), writing prompts, etc.

 

I think being able to write a decent 5 paragraph essay will be a big jump start on being able to get the most out of the materials. I had planned to do more formal essay instruction for dd13 prior to this, and seeing it has confirmed that decision. We'll do IEW's Elegant Essay this summer and then she'll do MCT's Voyage level next year along with her brother.

 

The only aspect of LA that Utopia doesn't include is Grammar. . . and do you know what they recommend??!?!?! MCT's Magic Lens!! LOL!! Hahahaha!! Grammar instruction doesn't appear at all integrated into Utopia, so you could use any grammar (or none at all if dc is DONE) simultneously and it won't matter a lick.

 

The program would lend itself VERY well to a small group (3-5 students) class as there are many discussion elements, but I think it would also be very adaptable for even just 1 student, just so long as the parent was doing the reading and involved with the student in discussions, etc. The back and forth discussion seems very integral (and very Socratic!!) so if you can do two students or more, I think that would be extra cool. I am considering having one other friend join us in this study next year.

 

CAVEAT: These readings have serious themes. Mentions are made of sex, orgies, etc are made in the very first short story!! Themes of sacrifice, etc are throughout the literature. (Is it Right to allow one person to (really, truly) suffer so that the rest of a community can thrive?) These are *real* books and stories, generally not ones written for kids. So, in a description of a Utopia, there may be mentions of free flowing drugs & guilt free sex. . . human euthanasia, human sacrifice, etc. . . (So far) I haven't found anything offensive to ME, but I am ready for dd13 to read these things and discuss them. I think context is important, and I am ready for this. I mean, the world is pretty ugly, and I can't avoid that forever! But, obviously, one might want to preread some of the literature before committing to it, especially if your child is on the younger age range (and this is probably a good reason NOT to go younger than the recommended age ranges for these programs!)

 

The first story is The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas by Ursula K LeGuin. (drugs, sex, orgies!) Here is a link to the entire text:

 

http://harelbarzilai.org/words/omelas.txt

 

So, read that story and others that are listed in the Teacher's Guide (you can google up the full text of virtually any short story or poem!) to get a feel for the literature. And/or read a summary of the longer texts if you aren't already familiar with them.

 

(And, yes, I am keeping it for sure, so I am happy to sell you one or more of the Student Booklets, as I had to buy a set of 10!! I'll sell them for $9 for the first one ppd, $7 ppd for each additional. Just PM me if you want one. . . Non-cc paypal. No returns, please, so, if you aren't sure you want it, buy the Teachers Guide first from the publisher to make sure you want it!)

 

HTH. Sorry I am rambling but I am just figuring it out! It is energizing and exciting for me to delve into such a quality program. Such a nice change of pace!! I can't wait to start having these conversations and get dd writing on such interesting things.

[JeanM]

I think AoPS Counting & Prob is intended as a semester. The AoPS website has very straightforward placement tests. I'd have your ds do the appropriate placement test after he is done w/ Alg 1 to see if he is ready with just Alg 1.

 

The AoPS sequence seems to be alg 1 & alg 2 both prior to the other courses (C&P, etc.) but you'd have to know what was covered in your son's course(s) vs AoPS's courses. . . so the placement test might be the way to go.

 

 

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea. Can you update us after you have used all of these materials for a while? I'd love to hear how they work out for your dc.

[jonnia]

I know what you mean! I recently got the MCT Island series and the W&M Beyond Words for gr1-2. They do look very exciting and I can barely wait to get started. I guess I should look into the AoPS materials for future!

[rowan25]

I know what you mean! I recently got the MCT Island series and the W&M Beyond Words for gr1-2. They do look very exciting and I can barely wait to get started. I guess I should look into the AoPS materials for future!

This is the one that I'm considering. What are your thoughts on it so far? I realize you just got it, so I'm not expecting great in-depth analysis. :lol: How does it look? :tongue_smilie:

[jonnia]

This is the one that I'm considering. What are your thoughts on it so far? I realize you just got it, so I'm not expecting great in-depth analysis. :lol: How does it look? :tongue_smilie:

 

It looks good enough that I am getting excited to teach it! There are some classroom-oriented activities, but nothing that cannot be adjusted for use with a single student. It addresses its stated goals very well and is rich with interesting and thought-provoking discussion points. The writing requirement is about right for challenging my 7 yr-old to use his creative and analytical muscles but not overwhelming him.

 

I did not purchase the student booklet packet due to price, which have the poetry readings for the unit. So far, I've been able to track down all but one poem, but I still plan to check the library's assortment of children's poetry anthologies before I give up on that one. Otherwise, the library here has most of the other books we'll need. I bought a couple from amazon and a poetry book from ebay, spending a great deal less than the $56 that the publisher wants for the student booklets.

 

As we go along, I'll share a bit more including how my son responds to it. I am hoping it works well with him because I want very much to do some of the other levels in the future!

[rowan25]

It looks good enough that I am getting excited to teach it! There are some classroom-oriented activities, but nothing that cannot be adjusted for use with a single student. It addresses its stated goals very well and is rich with interesting and thought-provoking discussion points. The writing requirement is about right for challenging my 7 yr-old to use his creative and analytical muscles but not overwhelming him.

 

I did not purchase the student booklet packet due to price, which have the poetry readings for the unit. So far, I've been able to track down all but one poem, but I still plan to check the library's assortment of children's poetry anthologies before I give up on that one. Otherwise, the library here has most of the other books we'll need. I bought a couple from amazon and a poetry book from ebay, spending a great deal less than the $56 that the publisher wants for the student booklets.

 

As we go along, I'll share a bit more including how my son responds to it. I am hoping it works well with him because I want very much to do some of the other levels in the future!

Please do!! I'll be interested in following your progress.

 

I'm considering it for my dd who will be 6. Writing is not her best thing, nor is spelling. Add in a healthy dose of perfectionism, and writing anything becomes torturous for both of us. Can you compare the amount of writing to something? Very little, moderate, increases through the book, etc.?

[jonnia]

Please do!! I'll be interested in following your progress.

 

Can you compare the amount of writing to something? Very little, moderate, increases through the book, etc.?

 

Beyond Words involves what I would call a moderate amount of writing assignments, however many of the worksheets and literature webs can be done orally or with you transcribing your child's responses. Most lessons ask for a journal response of some sort, but you may be able to cover that with discussion or with a drawing. There is also a lesson on persuasive writing which uses a worksheet with the hamburger model of paragraph construction. Overall, I think the writing assignments are not too much for the target age group, and they are definitely tweakable if you need to adjust them a bit.

[rowan25]

Beyond Words involves what I would call a moderate amount of writing assignments, however many of the worksheets and literature webs can be done orally or with you transcribing your child's responses. Most lessons ask for a journal response of some sort, but you may be able to cover that with discussion or with a drawing. There is also a lesson on persuasive writing which uses a worksheet with the hamburger model of paragraph construction. Overall, I think the writing assignments are not too much for the target age group, and they are definitely tweakable if you need to adjust them a bit.

Excellent! That doesn't sound so bad, especially since I'm considering it for next year. Thank you so much!!

[rowan25]

You got it in??!!! How does it look? What age? Tell me all the gory details!! I haven't heard anything about my preview copies. I'm planning on just ordering later on in the spring/early summer.

I heard about the preview copies yesterday. Apparently they don't do that with homeschoolers. Only school systems. Figures!