X-post: Questions on Connect the Thoughts--Peela or anyone else?

[LanaTron]

I have been reading posts about Connect the Thoughts, and I have some questions. I did download the "How to Start Using CTT" file, and I have quickly read over it. My questions mainly pertain to the material for the Upper School, but I am looking at Lower School materials as well for my younger kids.

 

First, I want to know if any other type of writing besides creative writing is taught. What about expository writing like essays, etc., that students are expected to do in college? Is there writing assigned in the content areas, or only in the creative writing courses?

 

I am also pondering the difference in what SWB says, as far as not making students do creative writing unless they want to, vs. this approach where creative writing seems to be the main writing instruction offered. :confused:

 

Second, what are the science courses like? In the U.S. most colleges expect to see 3 sciences, two of them with labs. Does it seem like CTT sciences would meet that requirement? And will I have to track down many materials for the activities/experiments?

 

Third, what about the following instruction?

 

The rule on Creative Writing courses is that NO criticism or correction is to be

given to the student on their work, not of spelling, grammar, subject matter, or of

anything at all. The tutor or parent’s job is to see the student fully does each

 

 

exercise, and to admire the results, period!

Will a student actually improve on those things with no constructive criticism?

 

I'm sure I'll have more questions, etc., as I keep thinking about things. I am looking at this curriculum because things just aren't going well around here, and I want to try something different before I end up giving up, and putting all of my kiddos in school. :sad:

[Peela]

OK. I can completely understand your concerns and they were, and in a way still are, mine as well. Although I havent been at the stage of wanting to put my kids in school (except for a few minutes here and there!), I have been at my wits end not knowing how to motivate particularly my younger.

I am using Creative writing3, Medieval History, Manners, Control You or Them, and my older is using 3rd World Countries and Artist Basics.

 

We are not using the science. My kids go to a science class. I have bought the Biology though for next year because it also covers health, which is particularly what I want to cover with my older before she goes to TAFE (CC equivalent). My situation is different because I am in Australia and I have alternate pathways available to university for my kids, if they choose to go. They have done plenty of science in the classes they have attended since they were 12 and neither are sciencey or heading for science careers (although my younger is a bit young to decide that yet- I would still probably use CTT science though because of the way it engages this particular child). So I can't answer your questions as to how high the standard is in the science curriculum and whether its enough for your kids.

 

The creative writing courses are pretty much that- creative writing, although not in the usual sense of giving an arbritary topic to write about-- they teach literary terms and the structure of fiction etc, and there is a non fiction course as well which covers all sorts of topics. It strongly develops a writer's voice- but no, it doesn't focus on grammar. However....they have actually got my reluctant writer writing. In fact the fact that I am not criticising my son's writing has opened the floodgates to a lot of creative writing and thought. When I do ask him to read me what he has written. I am often surprised at the way he thinks when given the opportunity to express himself without judgement or editing. He is really engaging with the questions. Thats worth a lot around here.

 

However, I put him onto LLATL as well because I do want him to keep up his grammar, and it also has him doing other sorts of writing such as essays etc. I am not willing to let that go. ALso, we have used other programs in the past to work on different types of writing. My older is using home2teach again next year to get her writing standard up before she goes into Journalism. So, I am using CTT Creative Writing as a part of my overall long term plan and program- and I am very happy that it has my younger actually writing.

 

Also...many of the assignments in all CTT programs ask for approximately 50 word responses. ALthough the author says that less is also OK if they actually answer the question, my son was consistently giving less than 50 word responses and I pulled him up on it and asked him for more detail in his answers. So, I am still the parent, no matter what the program says.

 

The author is a "creative" type rather than a "science and maths" type. He was a screen writer, his wife an opera singer, and both their kids have gone into creative type careers. This appeals to me...but its not going to appeal to everyone.

 

My favourite is the History, because of the way it covers world history in a chronological way, and also the types of questions it asks. It engages the kids in thinking about the history rather than regurgitating information or memorising. However...we have done a lot of outlining and note taking in the past, and I will probably still have my kids do notetaking and outlining, but perhaps in a different subject, like our Australian history which I intend to cover next year. So again...I will add to CTT the skills I want my kids to cover. But not necessarily all the time- we focus on different skills at different times.

 

Its not classical and doesn't pretend to be- the author doesnt even have a clue about classical education. He does however have a fairly fresh approach, to my mind, and a lot of it appeals to me. It is designed specifically so that the child becomes self motivated and engaged with the work, and basically works through it all on their own- with help from the parent when needed (there are parent guides in many of the courses). And so far...I find that my kids do engage with the work and are self motivated- it has taken a lot of the stress out of homeschooling for me. However, I still struggle with my son in other areas such as grammar and Latin where he has very little motivation :glare:

 

I suggest you join the Yahoo group and ask questions there if you are still interested. The author will answer them himself, and you will usually get answers from others who are using the courses too. Keep in mind the author is not particularly aware of the whole world of homeschool curricula, especially not classical- he wrote the courses for his two children who he felt werent getting a good education in the private schools they were in.

[Kareni]

Peela,

 

What a comprehensive review of this curriculum. While I wasn't the one who asked the question, I've benefited from your answer!

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Osmosis Mom]

Peela, OK I found some info here!! I am interested in the history for ds. The author suggest starting at the beginning, which I don't really want. Do you think starting somewhere else would work?

 

 

 

OK. I can completely understand your concerns and they were, and in a way still are, mine as well. Although I havent been at the stage of wanting to put my kids in school (except for a few minutes here and there!), I have been at my wits end not knowing how to motivate particularly my younger.

I am using Creative writing3, Medieval History, Manners, Control You or Them, and my older is using 3rd World Countries and Artist Basics.

 

We are not using the science. My kids go to a science class. I have bought the Biology though for next year because it also covers health, which is particularly what I want to cover with my older before she goes to TAFE (CC equivalent). My situation is different because I am in Australia and I have alternate pathways available to university for my kids, if they choose to go. They have done plenty of science in the classes they have attended since they were 12 and neither are sciencey or heading for science careers (although my younger is a bit young to decide that yet- I would still probably use CTT science though because of the way it engages this particular child). So I can't answer your questions as to how high the standard is in the science curriculum and whether its enough for your kids.

 

The creative writing courses are pretty much that- creative writing, although not in the usual sense of giving an arbritary topic to write about-- they teach literary terms and the structure of fiction etc, and there is a non fiction course as well which covers all sorts of topics. It strongly develops a writer's voice- but no, it doesn't focus on grammar. However....they have actually got my reluctant writer writing. In fact the fact that I am not criticising my son's writing has opened the floodgates to a lot of creative writing and thought. When I do ask him to read me what he has written. I am often surprised at the way he thinks when given the opportunity to express himself without judgement or editing. He is really engaging with the questions. Thats worth a lot around here.

 

However, I put him onto LLATL as well because I do want him to keep up his grammar, and it also has him doing other sorts of writing such as essays etc. I am not willing to let that go. ALso, we have used other programs in the past to work on different types of writing. My older is using home2teach again next year to get her writing standard up before she goes into Journalism. So, I am using CTT Creative Writing as a part of my overall long term plan and program- and I am very happy that it has my younger actually writing.

 

Also...many of the assignments in all CTT programs ask for approximately 50 word responses. ALthough the author says that less is also OK if they actually answer the question, my son was consistently giving less than 50 word responses and I pulled him up on it and asked him for more detail in his answers. So, I am still the parent, no matter what the program says.

 

The author is a "creative" type rather than a "science and maths" type. He was a screen writer, his wife an opera singer, and both their kids have gone into creative type careers. This appeals to me...but its not going to appeal to everyone.

 

My favourite is the History, because of the way it covers world history in a chronological way, and also the types of questions it asks. It engages the kids in thinking about the history rather than regurgitating information or memorising. However...we have done a lot of outlining and note taking in the past, and I will probably still have my kids do notetaking and outlining, but perhaps in a different subject, like our Australian history which I intend to cover next year. So again...I will add to CTT the skills I want my kids to cover. But not necessarily all the time- we focus on different skills at different times.

 

Its not classical and doesn't pretend to be- the author doesnt even have a clue about classical education. He does however have a fairly fresh approach, to my mind, and a lot of it appeals to me. It is designed specifically so that the child becomes self motivated and engaged with the work, and basically works through it all on their own- with help from the parent when needed (there are parent guides in many of the courses). And so far...I find that my kids do engage with the work and are self motivated- it has taken a lot of the stress out of homeschooling for me. However, I still struggle with my son in other areas such as grammar and Latin where he has very little motivation :glare:

 

I suggest you join the Yahoo group and ask questions there if you are still interested. The author will answer them himself, and you will usually get answers from others who are using the courses too. Keep in mind the author is not particularly aware of the whole world of homeschool curricula, especially not classical- he wrote the courses for his two children who he felt werent getting a good education in the private schools they were in.

[Peela]

Peela, OK I found some info here!! I am interested in the history for ds. The author suggest starting at the beginning, which I don't really want. Do you think starting somewhere else would work?

 

Yes Nadia, starting anywhere is fine. I asked the author the same question. His concern is only that most kids dont do history chronologically...since I have, and you probably, its not an issue. We started with Medieval and it has gone well. IN fact, I am about to jump to Modern next year- not my preference but it will be dd15's last year homeschooling and she really wants to cover modern before going on to study journalism, so we will. You can start anywhere.

There isnt an answer key and you will see why if you can get a feel for the sort of questions that are asked. There is no absolute right or wrong answer- its more thinking and giving your opinions. FOr example, after reading passages- these are a few random questions I copied- there are usually several questions per lesson.

"How could a good sewage system, one that quickly and efficiently removed waste,increase the length of life of the population? 50 words or more."

"Find the largest church, temple or mosque in your area. Go inside for 10

minutes. What does being in such a large building, dedicated to a religion, seem to make others feel? Does it make you think or feel anything? 50 words or more." (We did that- we are not religious- and my kids found it a profound experience).

"What do you think of Theodora’s speech to her fleeing husband?

Might she have made a better Caesar than her husband? Give three reasons why this may be so."

"What do you think the impact of guns would have on war? How would

it change battles normally fought with swords, arrows and spears?

How would this contribute to China’s growth in power? 50 words or more"

"The American Indian tribes were eventually pushed from their homes

by Europeans, who took over North America. Today, many of their

descendents live in “reservations”, areas of (very poor) land “given”

to them by the American government over the past 150 years or so.

What justifies America doing this to its native population, and what

does not? 50 words or more."

 

There are lots of documentaries and movies incorporated into the program too- there are many links to documentaries online. Sometimes you have to track down a movie- usually found in the library, I have found. If not, I skip the lesson.

 

I have started doing history together with my two because I want to finish medieval by our end of year in mid December...and I know they are engaging with it well by the way they are answering the questions. But its not going to be for everyone- its not your normal type of curriculum.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Peela

[LanaTron]

Thank you so much. I've got to run out the door now, as we are celebrating our Thanksgiving today (a day late!). I'll come back in a day or two with more thoughts/questions.

[Osmosis Mom]

Peela, thank you for taking the time to answer so detailed. It might be something that'd work well for my son. I'll look into it further and will let you know if I need any other help processing. I did sign up to the Yahoo-group.

Thanks again.

[Osmosis Mom]

They have a deal on this bundle here: http://www.currclick.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=138&products_id=26948&it=1&filters=0_0_0&manufacturers_id=138

 

 

Is that really the same as the separate course (and more) that I was just looking at? Also, must it be this very same textbook or can you use another one?

[Peela]

They have a deal on this bundle here: http://www.currclick.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=138&products_id=26948&it=1&filters=0_0_0&manufacturers_id=138

 

 

Is that really the same as the separate course (and more) that I was just looking at? Also, must it be this very same textbook or can you use another one?

 

Hi Nadia- there are no textbooks needed. He rewrote all the history courses to include the text in the course.

Yes it will be the same as the separate course. He does all sorts of specials all the time. I have tended to buy things separately though because I didnt want to commit myself. But you dont have to pay $100. Still $45 a course. Also be aware that the history courses are more 6 months than a year, although it would be easy to stretch them out.

[Osmosis Mom]

Hey Peela, Thanks for your reply. I guess I was a bit confused as his website has notbeen updated to reflect the actual changes in the curriculum nor does it give you an idea of the sales (that I could easily find). I guess spending some quality-time on the yahoo-group would help me get some more info and diffuse the confusion!

[LanaTron]

The creative writing courses are pretty much that- creative writing, although not in the usual sense of giving an arbritary topic to write about-- they teach literary terms and the structure of fiction etc, and there is a non fiction course as well which covers all sorts of topics. It strongly develops a writer's voice- but no, it doesn't focus on grammar.

 

I'm not so concerned about grammar itself, but essay or other academic writing. Although I suspect that as long as they get to where they are writing, and not afraid or overwhelmed by the process, learning a five-paragraph essay, or whatever, wouldn't be too difficult.

 

However....they have actually got my reluctant writer writing. In fact the fact that I am not criticising my son's writing has opened the floodgates to a lot of creative writing and thought. When I do ask him to read me what he has written. I am often surprised at the way he thinks when given the opportunity to express himself without judgement or editing. He is really engaging with the questions. Thats worth a lot around here.

 

It would be around here, too. My kids are in band, and at first I was "helping" them in their practice sessions, but my "help" felt like criticizing to them...they kicked me out and we're all pleased as puch as the progress they've made on their instruments. :D I could see where the same thing could be true of writing.

 

However, I put him onto LLATL as well because I do want him to keep up his grammar, and it also has him doing other sorts of writing such as essays etc. I am not willing to let that go.

 

So, it's not too much to do both?

 

I am considering using the Michael Clay Thomas language arts stuff with him for high school, and the writing it teaches is academic writing, so the two might combine well. (Or we might just continue with Hake grammar, Writing Strands, and Lightning Literature)

 

It is designed specifically so that the child becomes self motivated and engaged with the work, and basically works through it all on their own- with help from the parent when needed (there are parent guides in many of the courses). And so far...I find that my kids do engage with the work and are self motivated- it has taken a lot of the stress out of homeschooling for me.

 

This is why I am interested in this curriculum: self-motivation and engagement. Although I know it ultimately has to come from within.

 

I suggest you join the Yahoo group and ask questions there if you are still interested. The author will answer them himself, and you will usually get answers from others who are using the courses too. Keep in mind the author is not particularly aware of the whole world of homeschool curricula, especially not classical- he wrote the courses for his two children who he felt werent getting a good education in the private schools they were in.

 

I will join the yahoo group. I am not particularly concerned with classical or not classical at this point. I am just wanting them to be more enthused about their work (like my ds is about Life of Fred math).

 

So, how much time would you say it takes to complete a course? I think in another message you said about 6 months? How much time is that on each course per week?

[Peela]

 

So, it's not too much to do both?

 

No. I find the CTT courses don't take a lot of time, except for history. It's easy to add to them. It's also why I chose LLATL, because it also doesn't take a lot of time.

 

 

 

So, how much time would you say it takes to complete a course? I think in another message you said about 6 months? How much time is that on each course per week?

 

I think they all vary, but my son finished Creative Writing 1 in about 3 months- but it doesn't require a lot of writing- there are 24 lessons. It sets a foundation. Creative Writing 3 has 47 lessons. So it depends how many times a week you do it as to how long it takes. On the website he has recommendations for how many tmes a week to do subjects- but I have my son do creative writing 4 days a week at present, since we don't do science at home. It's also possible- and I am trying it- to give a set time and have them complete as many lessons as they can in that time. Because some lessons dont take very long, and others do.

[LanaTron]

Okay, thanks.