partyof5 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm in my 3rd year with TOG, and we're in Y1. I use the library for my books with usual success, we are enjoying the geography, and I'm mostly satisfied with the literature. Here's the issue: My oldest is 11. She enjoys history but would like smaller doses of it and would prefer more time on other subjects, especially science. DD8 would likely agree, and I think I agree too. I'm using TOG like a "buffet" so I'm not using EVERYthing it offers, but it still takes a long time. I also have a K'er as part of the mix. Moving forward, I'm not sure TOG presents an approach I definitely want in high school, when I hope to consider a Great Books study, a year of American History, and other topics that step outside of a traditional 4 year cycle. And I'm wondering if it's best to pursue about a less-is-more approach through middle school when it comes to history? SO, would LCC solve these issues? We have & love Latin but can hardly make time for it & haven't progressed this year, perhaps because TOG can sometimes rule the schedule. We have & love CW and wish to continue with it, even though it's time consuming too--very worth it. I feel pressed for time most school days & am wondering if dropping TOG would solve some of these issues. I'm open to suggestions other than LCC as well. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partyof5 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I'm in my 3rd year with TOG, and we're in Y1. I use the library for my books with usual success, we are enjoying the geography, and I'm mostly satisfied with the literature. Here's the issue: My oldest is 11. She enjoys history but would like smaller doses of it and would prefer more time on other subjects, especially science. DD8 would likely agree, and I think I agree too. I'm using TOG like a "buffet" so I'm not using EVERYthing it offers, but it still takes a long time. I also have a K'er as part of the mix. Moving forward, I'm not sure TOG presents an approach I definitely want in high school, when I hope to consider a Great Books study, a year of American History, and other topics that step outside of a traditional 4 year cycle. And I'm wondering if it's best to pursue about a less-is-more approach through middle school when it comes to history? SO, would LCC solve these issues? We have & love Latin but can hardly make time for it & haven't progressed this year, perhaps because TOG can sometimes rule the schedule. We have & love CW and wish to continue with it, even though it's time consuming too--very worth it. I feel pressed for time most school days & am wondering if dropping TOG would solve some of these issues. I'm open to suggestions other than LCC as well. Thanks so much! I have no clue, but I can bump you. Personally I love TOG, but it is the lowest on our priority scale, so we slow it down to what ever we can handle. There are times when we spend 4 weeks on a week of TOG. Now that is not the norm, 1.5 to 2 weeks is, but what ever it takes... Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happygrrl Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 (I noticed your post yesterday but I have the flu this week; I am having a hard tome concentrating! If you have more questions pm me and I'll answer when I get my brain back.) Switching to a LCC schedule was very helpful for us. We still kept doing TOG (though this year we are taking a break) though *much* more slowly and lighter than before. I basically put all of my books in a book basket for the kids to read whenever. Then, we substituted TOG in the slots that would have contained Geography, Religion, and Literature/ History, leaving two days open for Science and Fine Arts (usually a 2nd day of science). I read the LCC selections as read-alouds later in the evening. It means doing TOG from right after lunch until the end of school- very doable if you are efficient and let go of a typical TOG standard of completion :). We really miss TOG, and are excited about getting back on track next year! The benefit for us was in prioritizing Latin Math and LA, and also realizing that we could do less but deeper. We are happy with the switch. Sometimes I get swayed to add more things in, and always regret it. LCC has been amazing for best way for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun.classical Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Mamalynx uses TOG, LCC-style. You many want to search for her posts. I don't use TOG, but have certainly found LCC to be liberating. We love history and literature here, and I have to be deliberate in not letting those areas take over our homeschool. My children read lots on their own and I am continually amazed at how much they learn without "formal" history instruction. Just today I was panicking a little about being so uninvolved in their history reading, so I picked up a spine and started reading it out loud to them. I read a chapter on the Persian War--they kept interupting me with details that the spine left out. "Oh, that's the Battle of Thermopylae." "Right, this is the Marathon story." "Oh, yeah this is when the 300 get betrayed." I kept reading and when I read out loud, "And the Persian commander yelled,'We will blot out the sun with our arrows,'" my children shouted in unison, 'All the better, we will fight in the shade!.'" I laughed and closed the book. Clearly, they are learning! That isn't to say that formal discussion doesn't have its place. It does. But I really believe that we make history way too involved in the elementary years. It doesn't have to be so complicated. I keep learning this same lesson each year. Keep it simple. Read a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 My children read lots on their own and I am continually amazed at how much they learn without "formal" history instruction. Just today I was panicking a little about being so uninvolved in their history reading, so I picked up a spine and started reading it out loud to them. I read a chapter on the Persian War--they kept interupting me with details that the spine left out. "Oh, that's the Battle of Thermopylae." "Right, this is the Marathon story." "Oh, yeah this is when the 300 get betrayed." I kept reading and when I read out loud, "And the Persian commander yelled,'We will blot out the sun with our arrows,'" my children shouted in unison, 'All the better, we will fight in the shade!.'" I laughed and closed the book. Clearly, they are learning! That isn't to say that formal discussion doesn't have its place. It does. But I really believe that we make history way too involved in the elementary years. It doesn't have to be so complicated. I keep learning this same lesson each year. Keep it simple. Read a lot. So, do you let your children just read the history and lit. books? Can it really be that simple? I'm doing this for ds6 in 1st, and had planned to continue, but lately I've had a panic attack that this is somehow not "enough". We aren't doing lapbooking or notebooking ala WTM, etc. My son DOES naturally and enthusiastically narrate orally all of his reading. (He reads about an hour or two a day. I read aloud to him, too, in the evenings.) In other words, can I continue with what we're doing for a few more years? *Just* read and narrate in history? (I must laugh, for this is more that my dh and I ever learned or did in the elementary years!;)) Somehow I'm torn between the fancy curricula out there and the CM/Robinson/LCC ideal of self-education. Please tell me more, I'm intrigued! (I have a copy of LCC, but I'd like to know how you implement this in your home, if I may!) Sorry to hijack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajun.classical Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 So, do you let your children just read the history and lit. books? Can it really be that simple? I'm doing this for ds6 in 1st, and had planned to continue, but lately I've had a panic attack that this is somehow not "enough". We aren't doing lapbooking or notebooking ala WTM, etc. My son DOES naturally and enthusiastically narrate orally all of his reading. (He reads about an hour or two a day. I read aloud to him, too, in the evenings.) In other words, can I continue with what we're doing for a few more years? *Just* read and narrate in history? (I must laugh, for this is more that my dh and I ever learned or did in the elementary years!;)) Somehow I'm torn between the fancy curricula out there and the CM/Robinson/LCC ideal of self-education. Please tell me more, I'm intrigued! (I have a copy of LCC, but I'd like to know how you implement this in your home, if I may!) Sorry to hijack! Can it really be this simple? The short answer is, yes! I can't believe how much time and energy I have put over the years into designing the perfect history curriculum, and each year as we go along, I realize, this is too much. I've overdone it. I should have just let them read. I am becoming more and more convinced that reading and narrating is all that's necessary for the elementary years. I have my children read a spine (for an overview) and biographies (for details) with a little historical fiction thrown in. I am a big proponent of using biographies rather than historical fiction; and real classic children's literature for reading rather than integrating historical fiction with the history studies and calling it Literature class. (But that's another story) HOw it plays out for us is: I make an AO-style reading list for my children and they read it. That's it! Pretty simple! We do read-alouds as well and we discuss those, so I feel like they are learning the sorts of questions to ask when reading. My oldest is doing Omnibus I and obviously we get lots of discussion there, but I wanted to beef up the history so he is also reading through Streams of Civilization, Guerber's Story of the Greeks and Story of the Romans, as well as some biographies. My 5th grader reads her reading list which contains the Famous Men series (for biographies), Child's HIstory of the World (overview spine), historical fiction (just a few), classic literature (everything from Swiss FAmily Robinson to the Children's Homer), and some other biographies. She narrates. IT is really informal. And yes, it is really this simple. As I said in my original post, I second-guessed myself. I panicked. I doubted whether they could really be learning on their own and when I tested them, I was shocked. But when I asked them what Greek leader had had Homer's works written down and they both remembered that it was Psistratus, there was little doubt, that this really is working! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medieval Mom Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Oh, how timely and wonderful your post is! How encouraging! What a breath of fresh air!:) I just ruined a vacation by spending every waking moment agonizing and planning a "perfect history program." :confused: Hah! I knew a gentle voice was beckoning to me, "If what you're doing works, why spend $1000 and more headaches on something else????) Meanwhile, I've already developed lists inspired by AO, WTM, Robinson curriculum, and others for each grade, 1-12! I've grouped each year into a certain time period, listed various genre (poetry, classic literature, history, biography, etc.), and then books under each, in order of priority. I "overstock" the list, as I could never predict how much my ds could/would read. (And I'm glad I didn't. I though he might read a chapter a day of say, The Boxcar Children, and he flies through those books in a matter of a day or two. Boy, was I pleasantly surprised!:)) I should say that we incorporate memory work into our day, too, which in 1st grade has included poems he likes, The Preamble to the Constitution, etc. (We're on American history this year.) Ah, thank you, thank you, for your reassurances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partyof5 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Mamalynx uses TOG, LCC-style. You many want to search for her posts. I don't use TOG, but have certainly found LCC to be liberating. We love history and literature here, and I have to be deliberate in not letting those areas take over our homeschool. My children read lots on their own and I am continually amazed at how much they learn without "formal" history instruction. Just today I was panicking a little about being so uninvolved in their history reading, so I picked up a spine and started reading it out loud to them. I read a chapter on the Persian War--they kept interupting me with details that the spine left out. "Oh, that's the Battle of Thermopylae." "Right, this is the Marathon story." "Oh, yeah this is when the 300 get betrayed." I kept reading and when I read out loud, "And the Persian commander yelled,'We will blot out the sun with our arrows,'" my children shouted in unison, 'All the better, we will fight in the shade!.'" I laughed and closed the book. Clearly, they are learning! That isn't to say that formal discussion doesn't have its place. It does. But I really believe that we make history way too involved in the elementary years. It doesn't have to be so complicated. I keep learning this same lesson each year. Keep it simple. Read a lot. Thank you Angela and others who have replied! I appreciate hearing this... I suppose I am overthinking this (not uncommon for me) and what you are telling me is kind of what I hoped...that it IS that easy. I also echo your thoughts (in your next post I think) about literature...TOG has a lot of historical fiction and I am wanting different booklists & struggling to get all that reading in which means it's not getting done well. Really, I need to just drop the historical fiction, add in other wonderful literature a I see fit, and weave in the biographies, which we all love. Reading is SO where it's at! Thanks for sharing your family reading stories! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partyof5 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 I have no clue, but I can bump you. Personally I love TOG, but it is the lowest on our priority scale, so we slow it down to what ever we can handle. There are times when we spend 4 weeks on a week of TOG. Now that is not the norm, 1.5 to 2 weeks is, but what ever it takes... Heather Heather--thanks for replying. I've seen you use a lot of the same materials as we do, so this is interesting to read. I do take more time with some weeks but I'm hoping to get out of that cycle of "being behind" and just enjoy history more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siloam Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Heather--thanks for replying. I've seen you use a lot of the same materials as we do, so this is interesting to read. I do take more time with some weeks but I'm hoping to get out of that cycle of "being behind" and just enjoy history more... In the end you have to do what works, and keeps you sane. I started out with Sonlight, and while some people can use it and go at a slower pace the idea that I wouldn't get though all the levels drove me batty. TOG on the other hand I can handle. Even if it takes us 6 years my oldest will do TOG 1.5 times. For some reasons I can mentally deal with that. If with TOG you always feel like you are failing...well that just isn't acceptable. It is ONLY History. We are math focused here, with LA close behind. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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