momkate Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 We've been using US ed until 4b and now I see Standard ed. Part of me thinks I don't want to add any more topics than US ed has, and the other part says, ds1&2 should do cover what's considered better selection of topics. We live in CA and each year ds1 has missed some questions in STAR testing just because US ed never covered probability/statistics extensively. Both boys do well in math that in a long run it wouldn't matter, and what is not in US ed would be in later level books. I have enough math background to not need TGs at this point. Could anyone share the reason why you stayed w/ US ed, or why you switched to standard ed? Thanks, Kate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 We are in CA and use the stds edition. We also use the U.S. edition of the IP and CWP. I've seen and am familiar with the U.S. edition of at least the lower level text/workbooks and I've seen the comparison chart for the two editions. The added topics in the stds edition do not seem to be an overwhelming amount. However, there are also additional review sections in the CA edition that are not in U.S. edition. I suppose you could skip those if you felt they were unnecessary. Most significantly, though, the CA edition covers negative numbers where the U.S. does not. I guess it's really up to you and depends upon how much importance you place on the standardized test scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 We are not in CA, but did switch to the standards edition because I like the layout and the few additional topics covered. We used US edition for earlybird through 2b, switched to standards for 3a onwards (starting in 4a as soon as the HIG comes out for it, doing CWP3 in the meantime). Here's my favorite chart that shows how the topics in the two line up http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/SSUSandSTD2008.pdf Because some of the topics are moved up or down in the different editions, you would want to double check whether there were any topics your children might miss in switching at level 5. Jenny, the moderator at the Singaporemath.com forums, is a great resource to help you in figuring that out and how to best address it if you need to. Note that the chart doesn't yet include the material in the standards level 6 as that is new out this summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momkate Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've read SM website allover and had a discussion w/ Jenny on the forum as well. We'll be using IP and CWP on top of workbooks and extra practice and I don't mind scheduling to fit the sequence of both Standard ed and US ed. sooo, basically I'm plain torn b/c I want to dig deeper than move faster, eventhough I know my ds could probably handle Standard ed just fine. I'm afraid there isn't enough practice on each topic if there's more topics to cover. Sorry I'm not making much sense here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I've read SM website allover and had a discussion w/ Jenny on the forum as well. We'll be using IP and CWP on top of workbooks and extra practice and I don't mind scheduling to fit the sequence of both Standard ed and US ed. sooo, basically I'm plain torn b/c I want to dig deeper than move faster, eventhough I know my ds could probably handle Standard ed just fine. I'm afraid there isn't enough practice on each topic if there's more topics to cover. Sorry I'm not making much sense here. In what way do you feel you would be moving faster by switching? To me, the extra review material in the SE *is* digging deeper/moving a bit slower for us than the US edition (and we only use the text/workbook, with CWP over the summer for extra practice---my daughter would curl up in a ball and whimper if I suggested adding in every supplemental possibility for Singapore;)). Honestly, I can't see that by switching to SE, you would possibly be moving faster, not digging deep or not getting enough practice if you are already scheduling your children for the textbook, workbook, extra practice, intensive practice and challenging word problems in the US edition (and would plan to use all of those supplements with the SE). Given that the standards edition is *already* throwing in extra review material taken from PM 2nd edition (material that was taken out for the 3rd edition and hence not included in the US edition), I can't imagine how you would have *more* practice on topics by not switching. Granted, we are only going into level 4, but I didn't notice a lessening of questions and practice material per topic in looking at the SE and US editions of 3a side by side, for instance. The changes are primarily switching topics around between levels, only a couple are added in at any given level. True, you wouldn't have corresponding CWP or IP materials at this point for the couple of brand new topics (negative numbers, data analysis, probability), but you won't address those topics at all in the US edition. If you are concerned about switching but still want to address the topics that your state's standardized testing covers but Singapore US edition doesn't, the only alternative I see is to switching is to add in some worksheets/additional material from another source on those topics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momkate Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Some sequece changes are made within a grade level but others are moved down. There's decimal number multiplication and division, and negative number are additional topics that can be covered after 6B. Statistics has more space per grade level and some probability that US ed lacks. I don't know if standard ed has more pages per book for all that, or cutting out some portion of practice from the area thats mutual in both edition. If anyone has noticed significant increase in pages I'd love to know that. I'm not a huge fan of bringing more advanced topics to a younger age group, unless someone is totally above and beyond the grade level. But all your input are pretty encouraging that i'm leaning toward standard ed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Some sequece changes are made within a grade level but others are moved down. There's decimal number multiplication and division, and negative number are additional topics that can be covered after 6B. Statistics has more space per grade level and some probability that US ed lacks. I don't know if standard ed has more pages per book for all that, or cutting out some portion of practice from the area thats mutual in both edition. If anyone has noticed significant increase in pages I'd love to know that. I'm not a huge fan of bringing more advanced topics to a younger age group, unless someone is totally above and beyond the grade level. But all your input are pretty encouraging that i'm leaning toward standard ed now. Yes, there are more pages per book. You may want to look at the samples and descriptions of each individual level at http://www.singaporemath.com. The number of pages is listed in each description. For instance, take 4a (since I happen to have the SE of this level on hand, text/workbooks but not extra practice book). US edition--4A textbook---96 pp US edition--4A workbook---134 pp US edition--level 4 extra practice book---148 pp Standards---4A textbook---169 pp Standards---4A workbook---184 pp Standards---level 4 extra practice book---187 pp In the SE textbook, pp. 162-165 contain the California content standards for grade four mathematics. Pages 166-168 house the glossary and p. 169 has the index. There are two pages at the front including a preface that I don't remember seeing in the US edition, telling about how to use the book. So, that means that of the 73 additional pages, 10 are not directly the same as in the US edition (frontpage and TOC, for instance) or additional student review/material. The TOC can be found here http://www.singaporemath.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PMSTDT4A&Show=TechSpecs. Roughly 60 pages of additional direct student instructional/practice material In the workbook, the 50 extra pages are entirely direct student material---practices or review. Nothing else but the TOC, front page and copyright page. So pages 7-184 are all things for the student to do. Based on a comparison of the TOC of the 4A US ed textbook and the 4A SE textbook, I see the following (can't tell exactly how many pages are given to each, as I don't have a US edition on hand and page numbers aren't listed on the website--perhaps you have a US equivalent on hand to compare): In the textbook UE 3 major reviews. In the textbook SE 5 major reviews plus an extra single page of practice after most subsections (14 of them---this is in addition to the models given for practice in the exercise itself): 6 exercises and 6 practices for whole numbers, 3 exercises and 3 practices for the four operations, 6 exercises and 4 practices for fractions, 9 exercises for geometry (no practices), 3 exercises and 3 practices for area and perimeter. There is a cumulative review of 3-5 pages after each of these major topics. In the workbook, can't tell from the website about the UE, but the SE has 14 exercises for whole numbers, 12 exercises for the four operations of whole numbers, 19 exercises for fractions, 15 exercises for geometry, 6 exercises for area and perimeter. Each of these sections is followed by a cumulative review, for a total of 5 reviews (of 3-8 pages each). To give a very, very specific example, in the section "Equivalent Fractions" in the SE (numbers are for individual responses required from student, so I counted each part of a question with a, b, c, d items as separate, if that makes sense): p.77 explanation p. 78 18 problems to work then go to workbook for 16 more activities p. 79 another short example and 5 problems to work then go to the workbook for 29 more opportunities to practice. p. 80 a practice for this section with 27 more problems just on equivalent fractions In addition, you can order additional tests to go along with the SE, but I haven't seen or used those (the 4A test book is 201 pages http://www.singaporemath.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PMSTDTST4A&Show=TechSpecs). If you look at the Primary Math FAQ page http://www.singaporemath.com/FAQ_Primary_Math_s/15.htm, it lays all the differences out as well (the chart I referenced can be found by hitting the "scope and sequence" link found on this page). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Or you could be like me :001_smile:,and order New Syllabus Primary Math directly from Singapore...one of the newer programs they are using. I love it, far more than either the Standards or the U.S. edition (both of which I have used). First...I love the way the work is presented (similarly, but not exactly the same to the versions we have in the U.S.) and I also love that they have projects and games right in the books. I use the HIG's from the U.S. and Standards edtions...most of the chapters don't match up, but the info is similar...you just have to figure out which chapter matches to which chapter. We don't use any of the extra practice books. It would make math last far too long per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenNC Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) I'm not a huge fan of bringing more advanced topics to a younger age group, unless someone is totally above and beyond the grade level. Which topics are considered "advanced topics" can be quite relative, it looks like to me. I believe that for most folks in the US (the country not the Singapore Math edition ;)), it is considered "advanced" to bring many of the concepts such as multiplication and division, some of the algebraic concepts, in when Primary Mathematics does it (either edition). Absolutely, many of the word problems, especially in CWP, are considered very advanced and I most often hear of PM being used in academically gifted programs in elementary schools. I also usually see folks coming out of public schools advised to start at least a half level behind the stated grade level in PM precisely because it is overall considered "advanced". So to an extent, all of us who use PM (either edition) are already "bringing more advanced topics to a younger age group". It would be interesting to ask Jenny if any of the topics in the 3rd edition were rearranged, in addition to being a "reduced content" edition compared to the 2nd edition in Singapore. Also, in your initial post, you said something about SE being considered a "better selection of topics". I don't believe that that is considered inherently the case. It is certainly "better" if you want to be sure your kids are exposed to the material that will be on your state testing, but other than that, it depends on your situation. I want to be clear that I truly have no vested interest in whether you use the US or Standards editions. I think they are both good programs---SE is simply a better fit for us and our purposes. I just want to be sure that you are making your choice based on as accurate an understanding of the two programs as possible. Edited July 31, 2009 by KarenNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momkate Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 Thanks for sharing the # of pages and I see 40 to 50 page increase in both workbook and extra practice! I read somewhere, maybe LATimes, that some cosisder USed better, or that the contents in CA math standard are what all kids should know per grade, say mean, median and mode in statistics,which are not covered in any US ed. But like anything else, pepople have defferent opinions about everything. I'm glad to hear many families are happy w/ Standard ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) We are vested in the U.S. edition through the; texts, workbooks, CWP, and the Parker/Baldridge teachers course books. Change was not considered; also added was an additional math program, Global resources translations of Japanese elementary text/workbooks. Neither program brings up certain topics for example negative numbers before the 7th grade level. I have looked at their math materials that come after, and where they are going and how they get there, looks good to me. Oh yeah, I really want to squeeze in that Russian Math 6 book before taking that step into Japanese grade level 7 or comparable Singapore courses. Edited August 1, 2009 by Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.