Rita
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Posts posted by Rita
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DS (17) has been a life guard for the past 2 years. He also has worked at the Boy Scout camp an hour from us as a life guard in the summer (he worked 2 weeks last year, and will be working for 8 weeks straight this summer)
DS (15) has worked at a horse barn on and off for 2 years.
Rita
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Remember you have a limited number of private message space. I try to keep my PM box fairly well cleaned out. Usually if someone replies to a pm I sent, they reply with the entire conversation, so I don't typically keep my original sent message :)
Rita
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I've only been on this forum for a week or so - what does "bump" mean?
It simply moves the post to the top of the list :)
It "bumps" it up
Rita
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We sat our oldest down just a few weeks ago and discussed doing this for many reasons.
Our reasons were financial as well as emotional and academic readiness.
There are several opportunities for enrollments in concurrent classes for 11th grade that he wasn't ready for this year, but would be uneligible as a 12th grader. We can't afford these on our own and we don't want him to go into debt for them.
He has just now finally gotten a grasp on algebra, which has been a struggle for several years of diligent effort. But that meant his ACT scores were just a few points away from qualifying for concurrent enrollments. So instead of taking advantage of that for 2 years, he would only get one. Now his scores are MUCH improved, which means that 1 year could offer several opportunities he wasn't developmentally ready for prior.
This young man is rather directionless. The unemployment for under age 25 is bleak right now and we worry it will be worse before it is better. An additional year that adds maturity, saving some money (both in work and in taking advantage of opportunities), and direction is a luxury that he will likely never have again with no negatives that we can think of for him. The only slight negative is that, for now, that means he is classified as the same grade as his next younger brother. However, this time next year, we might very well make the same decision for similiar or other reasons for that brother.
When we sat ds down and explained the advantages, he was okay with it. He wants to graduate next year (every kid does!), but he agreed that he wants the advantages of waiting too.
Martha, we did something similar with our elder boy in December. He turned 17 in November, and was taking some dual enrollment classes at our local small private college. He was also taking math with a tutor, and an online Latin class. He is rather directionless, and wasn't doing well.
We gave him the option of staying home for school, taking more dual enrollment, but there were not many credits we could financially let him take, or go down to the local public school, but retaking the second half of his Sophomore year.
We discussed the pros and cons of retaking 10th grade; including getting a really good grounding in math, and having "extra" time to take classes that he wouldn't have had the chance to if we put him in the second semester as a Junior.
He is really settling in and doing well, and has found a subject that fascinates him...Psychology, something no one could have predicted! Friend wise, he has made several friends across the grade levels, and has kept his home school friends.
Parenting is so hard!
Rita
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Developmentally, he is at an expected stage. Sure, not every child goes through an overt "rebellion", but it is a known *stage*.
It would be counter productive to micro-manage.
It's important to know that there is not a direct line, or a trajectory between music choices (and questioning the God thing) and success as an adult.
It might be too much of a leap for you to engage with him about the music, though this would be best. Not to argue, but to understand why he likes it, how he processes the content, and to present a reasonable, non sermon like position on the lyrics. But know that it IS just music.
I'd have reasonable limits:
1. He may listen privately; it is not welcome in general areas of the home.
2. You reserve the right to remove privileges if grades go down, or attitude goes up.
3. You will not pay for the music.
He is learning and discovering and processing his thoughts and world view. He needs to go THROUGH this to get to the other side. I can guarantee he won't stay here. Practically the only ones who do make money with it. ;) But, in the meantime, don't be patronizing with it either. He's a thinking young man and his ideas and thoughts are worthy of discussion and consideration.
Replying to the bolded part of your comments:
We have done this with him. We have sat down on several occasions and honestly listened to the music and discussed the lyrics with him. We have asked him WHY he likes the lyrics, and his response is "I don't know". I am trying to get him to think about the why aspect of it, without it becoming a sermon.
I have to get off line here, but I value everyone's input into this! I will read all responses later on tonight :)
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So true.
OP, I would not be OK with that choice of music. In my opinion, there is such a thing as evil, and depraved music is evil. I would be horrified to have anyone under my roof listening to that or wanting to listen to it.
That said, I wouldn't start with banning or confiscating. As a matter of fact, I'd resolve to say not one word about his music from this moment forward.
Because the music is not the problem.
If your son is listening to Satanic music, he is not walking with Christ. You can't do both at once. The point is not to control what goes into his heart, but to do your best to win him to Christ.
That is a separate matter from the music, or appearance, or anything external.
The music is not defiling him. It is answering something already in his heart. That's what Jesus said, that it's not what goes into a man that defiles him but the wickedness that proceeds from his own heart.
So what to do?
How would you go about witnessing to a teen just like him who was not your son? Would you spend as much time with him as possible, sharing your testimony about your own salvation in Christ, truly accepting him, truly loving him, trying to rub off on him because you want him to have what you have...would you look for positive friends and influences, and find ways to help him mature as a person and possibly move toward saving faith in Christ?
If that's what you'd do for a "worldly" teen, then that is what you should do for your own precious boy. The time for controlling his environment is past. You can do it for a little boy but not a teen.
I know you are praying. I'll pray for your son, too, and for patience and wisdom for you. It is the rare teen who doesn't drive his Mama to her knees, literally, praying for him to get through these years relatively unscathed.
First off, thank you for praying for him and for me. :grouphug:
Secondly, he has already told us he doesn't "want religion stuffed down his throat"...so I am not. What I am doing is trying to love him, and let him know that he is deeply loved regardless of his music choices. We don't refrain from mentioning Christ (never have, never will), we pray out loud before we eat, we try to make our relationship with the Lord alive (we always have). He still attends church with us without being asked....at least 2 Saturdays each month he and his brother spend the night with the associate pastor and his wife (they are like surrogate grandparents to our boys)....they both ask/beg to go over there. We are so blessed in that regard that we have other Godly people whom the boys adore.
Thank you for your insight and prayers!
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Two things here:
1) the music. There is a lot of good (as in well written, creative, well performed) music out there that happens to be ruined by the lyrics. I'd love to get hold of certain music minus lyrics. It's not the music that is bad, it's the lyrics (though I know certain fundamentalist that hold to a "all 2nd and 4th beats are evil, but stress on the 1st and 3rd aka marches are not" mentality or the "if it makes you want to move or tap your foot then it's of the devil"...didn't work too well when I pointed out how many men I'd seen tap their foot to old hymns in church :P ).
2) the lyrics and his age. It is possible that he is questioning what he was taught to believe. Honestly, I'd be worried if he hadn't ever taken time to struggle with this. Sometimes we use music and other times books, etc during this struggle. If he just goes along because that's what he's been told all his life, then I would worry more. I strongly believe in "owning your faith". This is beyond the fact that mom and dad taught him this or because the preacher says something is interpreted a certain way. You can walk along side and dialogue with him through this stage. However, I don't see removing and disciplining him over it as something that will make him land on the side of the struggle you believe he should. BTW, I believe there are some metal music that do have positive messages also...I'll have to talk with dh on that one. He's the one that used to be into metal, secular and Christian, when we were young.
I wish I knew how to respond to you in your response!
1. Totally agree with what I bolded. I've told him that I like the music, just not the lyrics, and if he could find heavy (or even death) metal stuff that had no lyrics, I'd listen to it with him!
2. I couldn't agree more that he needs to own his own faith. We've talked with him about that....he needs to have a personal relationship with Jesus, not his parents' relationship. I had never thought about the fact that he might be using the music, etc during this time (what I bolded and underlined in your response).
And just simply agreeing with the underlined sentences.
It's so helpful to hash this out with others who have been there/done that, or just have a viewpoint about the situation.
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:grouphug: St. Monica is a good example for us moms to follow. Her hedonistic rebellious son - St. Augustine of Hippo
I have thought about her over the last couple of months!
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I looked at the lyrics for both. Crude and dark, but nothing that particularly shocks me.
Iron Maiden is a torture device and a band as well. They're not original in that sense.
Here's my very unscientific take:
1. He likes the music, doesn't love the lyrics, but isn't about to tell you because he's 17.
2. He doesn't really like either, but it's a way to rebel that doesn't actually cause chaos and long term consequences.
3. He doesn't like them, but is pushing boundaries.
4. He is not perfect. He has had dark thoughts, maybe similar to the lyrics of this musics. He listens because someone understands.
4B. He's testing you. He's not perfect in thought and/or deed, and wants to know if you will accept him in a less than perfect state.
4C. He's testing the "love your neighbor as yourself" part of his faith. Can you love him, can you see this band as individuals instead as of an instrument of hate?
I've never heard this band, maybe I have, I listen to metal rock on the radio. Really, shock and awe in lyrics have been around forever. There was a recent thread on music from the 70s. We love 70s rock (80s too)around here, but some of the lyrics have me raising an eyebrow, and I'm not that conservative.
excellent points, and thanks for the unscientific take on it. We've thought some of those points, but hadn't sat down and wrote it out. I appreciate your insights.
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Yes, I did. I've never heard of them, I've never heard their music that I know of, and I actually did google some lyrics including Recreant.
Whether the lyrics are metaphorical, or they are someone poetically lashing out at a real person or event, they are only words. Actions speak louder than words.
Although I don't care for death metal myself, I do like progressive metal. My 14yo's musical tastes delve into death metal, hardcore, screamo, etc. But he's choosy about it. He likes some of the music, not necessarily the words.
Remember when Ozzy Osbourne was the big musical evil? Now he's an old fogey, somewhat of a joke. We who listened to him then are now productive members of society, caring homeschooling parents, community leaders...
If you "eh" about it, he'll probably just listen to the songs he likes and eventually move on.
Can you list some of the bands you 14yo listens to?
I'm trying really hard to "eh" about it, but, boy, is that DIFFICULT.
Great point about actions speaking louder than words, because he really is a terrific young adult. BUT, words are much more long lasting than actions. Think about when you have been hurt in the past...it's usually not a physical punch that you remember, but times when you were called a name, or told something hateful. Words stick in your head for a long time.
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:iagree:
IMO, you are being unreasonable, you will ultimately lose this battle, and you will damage your relationship with your son in the meantime. You've already let him know you disapprove. Make him use headphones and then drop it; choice of music is just not that important.
And honestly, interviews with the band show them to be reasonable young musicians looking to make a living. When I googled the band I didn't even see anything that would upset young children.
Amy, did you google Chelsea Grin? The fact that they named themselves after a torture method makes me wonder about them. Google their lyrics, any of their songs, but Crecabanger or Recreant are two that are telling examples of their thoughts.
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:iagree:The only thing I would add is that instead of taking away his stuff, he has to agree that he doesn't share it with younger sibs.
ETA:
Yes, he is now at the age he will question things. You need to pray for him now. Set a good example without preaching at him. Hopefully he will come out the other side with a faith stronger than when all this started.
I don't believe I have ever prayed so consistently for him, so that is a very good thing.
Younger brother can't stand older brother's music, so that's not an issue (at the moment...younger bro just turned 15...his turn is coming)
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I really like the song, "Pumped Up Kicks," because it's a good, catchy tune. But, I do feel guilty over the lyrics. It doesn't help that an acoustic version plays on the radio quite a bit. It is easier to hear and understand the lyrics in the acoustic version.
IMO, music, hair and clothes (within reason) are 3 areas where you are better off allowing "small" rebellions. Let him know you don't approve, that is where the rebellion comes in.
He did the hair thing at 15 1/2...bleached it totally blond (he's naturally dark). Clothes haven't been an issue (much)....We've never battled his hair, cause I figure it'll grow out :lol:
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:iagree: With a 17 year old I'd be working hard to keep lines of communication open to foster an open relationship when he's an adult. Not that every behavior or choice a 17 year old might make should be over looked. Choice of music seems pretty small potatoes compared to some choices other kids might make at this age. If this is his biggest rebellion, you are one lucky parent. :grouphug:
I agree that he has not gone totally wild in his choice of rebellion, and am so incredibly thankful for that!
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He may not see your POV any time soon, but eventually, in a few years. By then, he will have moved out, work a job, possibly have a family.
I personally would not discipline an almost adult young man for his music taste. Yes, I would definitely discuss it, explain what I find objectionable, how the lyrics (which I did not look up) do not mesh with my family values - but I also know that listening to something with questionable lyrics in no way means that the young man is on the way to acting badly. I would really try to distinguish between the two things.
At this age, I personally would not resort to confiscating iPods etc. In one year, he will be on his own, making his own choices, listening to whatever he pleases. This is the time to prepare him for this independence. I would work to keep communication open, to enjoy this last year with my young adult. I would not choose to make this the battle that determines our relationship.
I might request that the music is only listened to on headphones and not played in the hearing of younger siblings who might be disturbed/confused by the lyrics.
I believe that music DOES influence our attitudes and behavior. Music has a powerful impact on us...think about how music moves you...it can make you happy, and bring you to tears. The lyrics he is wanting to listen to are VILE...one song is all about the mutilation, r*pe, and murder of prostitutes.
We are trying to prepare him for independence (which is still 2 years away as he is only a sophomore in high school). We are trying to teach him responsibility and to make good choices.
Taking the iPod may not have been the best parenting thing we've done, but it's what came to mind when we found that he had deliberately disobeyed us.
This parenting gig is HARD!!! I love the fact that there is a forum where we can discuss and help each other out on this road.
Rita
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Banning it makes it more tempting. This is the time of rebellion. You've now given him a solid point of attack.
Is your son a Christian?
Is there someone besides you and your dh that he trusts, especially as someone that knows about God?
I went through this (grunge/alternative). I didn't stop listening to it until I started considering how it effected my behavior. I didn't realize that until a trusted person showed me.
:grouphug:
He has been raised in a Christian home, and has made a profession for Christ, but is now really questioning if there is a God :(
The trusted family I mentioned in the OP is the associate pastor of our church. He and his wife have raised 3 boys, run a group home (twice) for troubled teens, and my son ADORES them. We have asked them to talk with him, and they have.
I agree with the fact that we have given him a solid point for attack. When he first started down the heavy metal path, we did try to just accept it. It wasn't until the death metal started that we put our foot down.
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My elder son has always been tenderhearted and, for the most part, compliant. That changed when he hit 15 1/2 or so, and I understand the need for him to break free from his parents and be his own person. I get that it's part of growing up. But now, he's gone to totally unacceptable music choices. He's decided that he loves heavy metal, and not just heavy metal, but DEATH metal. We have sat down with him and tried to listen to it and see his perspective (when it was "just" heavy metal). What does not make this any easier is that a family at church that we HUGELY respect, have no problem with Christian heavy metal. And honestly, I try to not freak out over the heavy metal.
But now, he's starting to download and listen to Chelsea Grin. I won't link to them, but if you do a google search, make sure there are no little eyes looking over your shoulders. When asked if he likes their lyrics, he said "I don't dislike them".....even after I read the lyrics aloud to him :(
We've taken his iPod (again) (He was specifically told to NOT download Chelsea Grin, and after having the iPod back for 23 hours, he put them right back on it)
I just would like some reassurance that he will come out of whatever teenage angst he is in and see our point of view. Right now he thinks we don't love him because we are disciplining him (I know, that's how teenagers think...I remember being there!)
Anyone have some successful tips to share on how to keep loving the rebellious teenager and not lose my sanity?!?!
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Can someone recommend a good career aptitude test? Our older boy is in 11th grade and has no clue what he'd like to do with his life. DH remembers taking aptitude tests in High School, and that they helped him to figure out what he wanted to do with his life.
Thanks much,
Rita
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I agree with what other posters have said, but wanted to add that you can always pull him out after he starts. We have just started our 14yo ds in High School, and he's having some adjustment issues. He's only been there for 7 days, so we're letting him stay. For now. Subject to change, LOL! School decisions are HARD, and I would suggest keep praying about the situation, and listen to your DS, the Holy Spirit, and your mommy heart.
:grouphug:
Rita
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I'm getting ready to use Spelling Power with the second round of kids, and I haven't used it for awhile, and I was looking for Paula's Archive's "quick start" info. I googled for it, and it appears to be gone :( Any one kept a copy of it, or know what happened to it? Or their own version?
Thanks!!
Rita
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We're flying out of Dulles on Tuesday...how bad were the lines to get through security?
thanks!
Rita
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I'm going to be in Addis Ababa for a few days...any insight on places to see?
thanks!
Rita
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Thanks for the insight. We actually spent about an hour down there, and we're really excited about what's available, althought the Guidance Counselor was not extremely helpful (she's 2 years away from retiring, and should just go ahead and retire).
She did tell us what the "typical" student in 9th grade does...yeah, we won't be doing that! She strongly recommended that he take the "typical" 9th grade science....his test score on Science this year was 99 (Iowa Basic)... I'm pretty sure he's already done all the Earth Science
that they do in 9th grade, so we'll skip him up to Biology. He'll be in Geometry as he's already done Algebra I. I'm not sure about the other courses, as I'm now at work and don't have the paperwork in front of me.
Virginia also has "Virtual Virginia" which is free to public school students, so he can take some more advanced classes "online" if needed.
He's going to take a theater class, which I think he'll love as he's done some theater with the local college and really enjoyed it. They have a nice variety of sports that he can participate in too. Overall, we're quite pleased with the sounds of it. I do reserve the right to yank him back out of there if need be ;)
Rita
I would go in with each subject area detailed as far as what he's already done' date=' and ask them what he will be doing in each of the grades in each subject. Don't just ask what classes are available as some schools will only allow juniors and seniors to take some of the more advanced classes. Get it all in writing so there are no surprises. If they have honors or other programs for bright students, find out what he'll need to do to qualify and make sure that he's not too late - some of those designations are made in 8th. Can you tell that academics would be a major concern? :tongue_smilie:I'd talk with your son and ask him what he'd like you to ask about if he won't be there. Other than that, I'd do a lot of listening and the questions would probably come from that info.[/quote']
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We are talking to the local high school today about enrolling our rising 9th grade son. He's extremely bright, and we feel that he needs to be under some one else's authority, at least for awhile (it's a long story).
Anybody successfully sent a home schooled boy to 9th grade public school? Advice? Questions to ask the school?
Any input welcome :)
Thanks!
Rita
Recommendations for learning Russian
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
We are interested in learning Russian, and there are so many options out there!! Could you share what you used and how successful it was?
Blessings,
Rita