Hi Tiffany, I guess I'll fire a question or 2 back at you. Then I may be of more help. Why do you WANT/NEED to create an end to the school day and what do you define as "ending the school day?" I never really know when our school day ends around here BUT I end mine "officially" so to speak, when I start teaching lessons in the afternoons. Anything they haven't finished is homework that is due by 6:30 p. m. And yes it does seem we have quite a few similarities, wow.

We are MOTH schedule users. Before the MOTH schedule entered our home, we never had an order for when we were to do school, chores, or anything else and sometimes, because the kids couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel, school took from the time dh left to the time he came home (with meal breaks of course.) Using the schedule gave the kids deadlines for when things were to be completed and kept me accountable too. The schedule works really well for older dd and me but younger dd hates it. She'd rather have a checksheet off of Homeschool Tracker of all of her assignments and have me say "School starts at 8 and today you have to be done by 12 because..." and let her go. If I did that with older dd, she'd chafe at the lack of structure (and she needs it--she'd wander in at 11am, get lost in the first assignment, get off on a tangent...and well you get the picture.) Add to the mix 22mo ds. He will be 2 in September. He's entered the "no" phase with a vengance. Any sort of discipline he just laughs at. He's eternally curious and nothing deters him. Buckled straps--he climbs out of those--with the buckle still fastened. There is nothing he won't climb on or try to get into. He's tall enough to reach dresser tops, counter tops, and the like--and if he can't reach it, he tries to figure a way to. He doesn't nap or he naps erratically. When he was a newborn the longest he would nap was 20 minutes at most. The doctor commented how energetic he is many times. His cradle roll teacher says he's one of the brightest they've ever had come through the program. He sleeps well at night but naps--forget it. Naps have never been anything I could count on with him. I have a bucket of activities just for school that I rotate but he figures them all out and they last him 15 minutes at best. He's always looking for something new to do and when you turn your back on him for a minute if he doesn't have someone's attention or something constructive to do, he is getting into good old fashioned mischief. Ex. I was cleaning up the kitchen this morning and loading the dishwasher. When I was done I went to go start the laundry machines. I needed dd's help starting the dryer. He was ok then. She had to go to the bathroom and after I started the washer (which took 30 seconds at best) I came out of the room and he had turned over the dog's water bowl (for the 3rd time in 30 minutes.) While dd was wiping up the water (which took 30 seconds to a minute) he had run across the room and started pressing all the buttons to change the settings on the dishwasher....when I took him away from that he unfolded all the laundry I just folded...etc. Last night (after 2 hours at the pool and going going going all day) I was trying to explain to dd a new concept in MUS. She's really good at math and this normally only takes about 5 minutes at most. It took 30-40 because no one else was home besides dd and me to entertain him and keep him out of trouble. He napped 10 minutes. He won't sit down in front of the TV to watch an educational video--that's what the girls used to do at this age. We have no money for a mother's helper and no extra money for mother's morning out. My mom comes once a week to help on Thursdays but I know she can't handle him every day. No other family is available. I despair of having a MOTH schedule with him around. The girls have very different body clocks--9yo gets up at 6am or earlier and wants to be done with her chores and schoolwork by 11 a. m. or earlier. DD11 wants to start at 9 and be done by 1 or 2. In light of that and all the other variables, I'm thinking the best thing to do might be this (rather than a subject specific schedule): Give the girls an assignment sheet with what they are to accomplish for the day, with the understanding that if they get finished with something early they are either to entertain their brother or move on to the next thing along with the general schedule below that allows for entertaining toddler. 6am DD9 independent work, chores, and shower (MJ w/mom) 8 am breakfast and chores for family 8:30-9:30 Younger dd school w/ mom (MJ with dd 11) 9:30-11:30 Subjects the 2dds have in common (MJ w/mom, snack, toys) 11:30-1:30 DD11 School w/mom and then independent work (MJ w/dd9) If there's another option, I have yet to think of it. I don't think one can do a rigid schedule with this active a toddler who isn't potty trained. Here's what the 2 dds are doing this fall DD9 Core 4 No Bible Mom Made LA (Easy Grammar 4/5, Seq Spelling 2, HWT workbook, IEW SWI B, Dictations from Hebrews, WW 3000 Book 1 (old verison)) Foreign language if she wants Old SL Science 3 Bible Bowl Piano, Dance, Clarinet DD11 Core 6 No Bible Mom Made LA (Easy Grammar Plus, Dictations from Hebrews, IEW SWI B) Rainbow Science Year 1 Bible Bowl Piano, Trumpet, Drums, Voice Greek and Latin Roots; German and Spanish SL=Sonlight IEW=Institute for Excellence in Writing MOTH=Managers of Their Homes to alternate foreign languages with science. Both girls are, at this point, capable of finishing their math in 15 minutes or less and capable of reading their readers and history alone most of the time and reporting to me for discussion. Thoughts ladies? And any prayers that my precious boy doesn't wear me out would be appreciated. And might I say it took me an hour and a half to type this post because of little ds.

My 9 yo dd recently had the following conversation with some peers from church who are not homeschooled. Funny thing was, I thought they realized that E was homeschooled since everyone in SA's (my 11 yo) Bible class knows she's hsed. "Man, oh man, we are glad school's out. We don't want to start school again. We wish it didn't start so soon." "Why? I love school. My favorite subjects are math and reading." "You LIKE math and reading?!?!?!? What planet are you from?" To which my dd answered: 'PLANET HOMESCHOOLIA" LOL. Thought this might brighten someone's day. It gave me a chuckle.

Well why? Why should it bother anyone that my children are who they are? Or anyone else's children for that matter? When my kids were preschool age we made the decision to hs long term. When other kids in my kids' Bible class at church (we're at a different church now) would ask what grade they were in, my kids would name the "grade level" of most of the content work they were doing. The other kids got confused so I had to tell my kids to say the grade level of their age when they were at church. But the parents of these kids came to me and said that I SHOULDN'T be homeschooling my kids; that I SHOULDN'T be letting them be accelerated or gifted or whatever term you want to use, that I SHOULDN'T let them be reading this, or doing this math, or whatever. And I'm thinking "I didn't ask but ok, whatever." I used to talk to my ex-best-friend (the ex-best-friend thing had nothing to do with acceleration but something else entirely) who was at the time a homeschooler. She would ASK what we were doing and I would tell her. She would call and say when her son or daughter did something great and I would rejoice with her. But the rejoicing wasn't a two way street. Turned out she was envious that her kids couldn't do the same things as my kids did at such early ages. And when she would ASK what we were doing and I would tell her, even if I kept it general, like we are studying world history, or some such, she would get envious and offended. She said my comments about what my kids were doing, even the general ones like "Well we are studying math and world history and blah blah blah" were hurtful to her and the specific ones like "DD read a 600 page book in 3 days" were really hurtful. I'm a pretty quiet person when it comes to talking about my children's accomplishments IRL until the person has passed the "trust test" as a result of this experience. But the whole time I'm thinking... WELL YOU ASKED. I answered generally, you ASKED for specifics, I told you what you said you wanted to know, and YOU ASKED. I didn't volunteer. YOU ASKED. Even in my homeschool group there is only one mom I can talk to without something like this cropping up. And her dd is accelerated also. We've had issues with little ds (22 months tomorrow) in the cradle roll department in class at church. It's a long story but the cradle roll department head concurred with our assessment that the issues were because he was BORED to a large degree. Then the same person came to us a few weeks ago and told us that because his birthday doesn't meet the ps cutoff for Kindgergarten here, he will not be promoted to the next class with the rest of his buddies. OK so you don't think he's going to be MORE BORED then? That's what I thought but I didn't say so. I'm leaving it to dh to work this situation out. I know part of the reason that he may not be being promoted is because of classroom space in the next class and another part of the reason is because if they promote him "earlier than the K cutoff" then they've got the potential for a zillion other parents asking for exceptions for their kids. And when I talk to other parents IRL or in cyberspace about issues of "I have this for next year. If she finishes it before next school year is over, then what?" I get advice of "Well just make sure she doesn't." Now I realize that I don't have to take everyone's advice and I also realize I asked for it BUT what if I can't make sure she doesn't? We haven't finished some stuff from last school year (working through it over the summer at dd's pace) because we got interested in other things. We're back to the things we didn't finish now. I was actually advised by 2 different people to take the stuff we hadn't finished last year and put it somewhere where dd couldn't get to it so I'd have it to stretch out next year with. And I get the "Just make sure she doesn't finish XYZ before the year is over" advice a lot, it seems. And I'm thinking WHY SHOULD IT BOTHER YOU IF SHE DOES? But it seems to and I don't understand it.

I seem to be missing something. Why would you want or need your child who is 12 or 13 or whatever to take the ACT at that age? I've seen multiple threads about it but I fail to understand why one would want to do it and curiosity compelled me to ask the above question. I'm not judging anyone's choices--just extremely curious.

Hi again ladies and gents, I wanted to see what you all would do with this particular issue. My dd11 I've posted about here before. I also have a dd9 and a ds22 mo. Although this is somewhat *not* an issue of acclerated learning per se, in some ways, at least in my mind, it is. Before little ds was born we never really had a schedule of "at 8am we will do this, at 8:30 a. m. we will do this, etc." And it worked ok that way. We'd sit down, do our schoolwork, and then go do our chores and whatever afterward, then have the afternoons and evenings to do "whatever." After little ds was born though, I realized we needed one. I have tried schedule books before, but I happened upon Steve and Teri Maxwell's Managers of Their Homes book and it was revolutionary for us. The reason I realized we needed one was in large part due to the constant interruptions a new baby can make. I'd go off to change a diaper and come back and the girls would be gone somewhere else and then I'd have to round them up again and school would take 3 times as long as it needed to. And I realized I was carrying the schedule around in my head and carrying my expectations of them (ie I expect you to accomplish XYZ today with regard to schoolwork, chores, and home responsibilities) around in my head also. So we put together a schedule and that first year it was a REVOLUTIONARY idea. We got 3 times as much accomplished on all fronts; the kids knew what was expected of them; more was done in the house with regard to chores, etc. And I realized that my 11yo accelerated learner THRIVES ON those kinds of schedules. Even if I have 2 schedules, in order to accomodate out of home activities and I can say "Today follow the red one" or "Today follow the blue one" as long as she has one that says "at 9 am do this, at 10 a. m. do that, we'll be done by 12:30 and your time is then your own" or whatever, she can handle the difference in schedules as long as she knows what's expected of her each hour of the day and it's relatively predictable and orderly. And her accelerated brain thrives on that as well because she just takes in and processes information better that way. I should add to this that she's a night owl. The schedule we put together that first year was very specific in terms of which subject when, but it worked very well for us, esp since I was home recovering from a C-section. Add to this mix 9yo dd who sees things differently but is still an accelerated learner (but from a different angle than her sister.) She is a super early bird (gets up at 6 a. m. or earlier voluntarily), very determined, and loves checksheets but not necessarily schedules of the type dd11 thrives on. So this past year when I made the schedule out, instead of specific subject designations, like "History" or "free time" or "Clean bathroom" I did things like "independent work" or "school with mom" or "chore time," iow things that were more general. The thing is dd9 didn't want to follow the schedule at all and when she DID follow the schedule it was NOT how she thrived. If she followed the schedule and ate at 8 a. m. with the rest of us and did piano at 11:30 or whatever, by noon she was exhausted and couldn't take in any more information. What I did for her was give her a checklist of what I expected her to accomplish for today and I left it in a designated spot where she could find it. She likes to get up early while the house is still quiet and do her independent work and go down the checksheet and be done with her responsibilities by 11 a. m. so she can go off and dance or play or do whatever. I'm cool with that except for a couple or three different angles: 1) She wants the freedom to decide that maybe one day at random she doesn't want to do schoolwork early because she doesn't want to get out of bed until 8 a. m. I like for us all to have meals together but if she doesn't get out of bed until 8 a. m. and the schedule says breakfast at 8 a. m., that has thrown off the schedule for oldest dd and THAT upsets oldest dd. 2) She may take her checksheet and decide on a different order every day for her stuff. That's ok with me BUT if she's doing math at 8 a. m. when it's breakfast time and I call her to breakfast and interrupt her math time she gets REALLY upset. She has a different agenda in her own head every day. One day it may be breakfast at 6 a. m. and do all her chores. The next day it may be schoolwork at 6 a. m. and don't interrupt her till she's done with her independent work. The next day it may be shower at 6:30 and not start schoolwork until 7. The next day it may be sleeping until 8:30 which for her would be sleeping in. She gets the things done that she can do on her own by the deadline I've set regardless of what agenda she picks but then she comes to me at, say 10:30 a. m. when I'm doing school with older dd and wants me to do school with HER INSTEAD so she can get finished with the responsibilities on her checksheet and if I say, "E, you will have to wait. I'm working with S now. Go play with your brother. When we are done, I'll work with you," because I'm sticking to the schedule on the wall, she gets REALLY upset. She doesn't like ANYONE "interfering" for lack of a better word, with the agenda in her own head that she has for her day. And the thing is, as random as it seems to the outside world, it really is structured and orderly in her own head and she ALWAYS ALWAYS gets everything done she needs to do. That's how she learns best and thrives and takes in so much information from the world around her. 3) Then you have their different body clocks. DD9 is a super early bird and dd11 is a night owl. I tried, one day a week last year schooling them separately to allow for their learning styles and how they learn best (checksheets vs. schedules; early bird vs. night owl) and between that and the toddler it wore me out because it made for such a long day. So as I'm pondering the family schedule for next year; what the family needs from me as a wife, mother, and teacher; how the kids learn best; and how to get it all to meld together, I'm wondering how you balance (A) a kid who wants a super predictable schedule (but not too early in the day) with (B) a kid who wants to follow her own agenda (way early in the day) within a set of given parameters; and © taking care of the toddler. Add to the mix all the out-of-the-house things that must get done (and some that are just plain fun that we WANT to do) and I'm not sure where the balance is. Obviously not everyone is going to get everything they want. That's just how life works. But if anyone stuck with me through this post and has ideas on how to balance things so my accelerated learners can learn best and be who they are, I'd sure appreciate hearing them. I should add to this that I teach music 2 days a week in the afternoons and that the toddler WILL NOT NAP, at least not on any predictable pattern that allows me to work things around him. One week he may not nap at all. The next week he'll nap from 8:30-10 a. m. The next week he won't nap at all again. Then he'll nap 2 weeks at 2:30. It's totally random. It always has been, even as a newborn. When I was newly outof the hospital and needed to rest, the longest he would nap was 20 minutes.

OK first of all there are so many things I LOVE about my church family. We aren't changing churches so off the bat I don't want anyone to suggest that. I'm not really looking for suggestions anyway so much as commisseration (sp?) and understanding. The church has a library of books for the kids to read and a free summer reading program with prizes. Every child gets a nice canvas book bag with his/her name on it. The other night dh was remarking that the girls (11 and 9) were getting "baby books" as he put it (meaning books BELOW their reading level, not necessarily below their ps grade level if they were in ps.) They are only allowed to check out 4 books at a time. They started reading them in the car on the ride home and had all of them read by an hour or 2 after we got home. When dh asked the girls why they were getting books that were below their ability level, they replied that they weren't ALLOWED to get any except off of the shelves labeled grades 3-4 and grades 5-6. And this is true from what I can tell. Older dd says there is a big sign on the shelves with the longer books that says for 13 and up only (by longer I mean about 100 pages according to dd.) Older dd tried to check one out and was not allowed according to her. I'm going to return their library books tomorrow and see if I can get to the bottom of this mystery. Now to be fair, the church library has probably 200 titles total in each grade. Now I can understand that you don't want a 5th grader checking out K level books but not allowing the child to read ABOVE grade level to me is silly. My 6th grader read Eragon in about a week. I encountered the same problem 2 years ago when dd was working on her Core 4 research paper on Helen Keller. We went to the public library and were told that she was not ALLOWED to check out Helen's autobiography from the adult section (either on MP3 or the paper copy) unless a parent "agreed to help her with it." The librarian argued with dh and finally let her have the MP3. Then I found the paper copy for free on Google books. <Sigh> Why can't the world let accelerated learners be who they are? Why do they have to pigeon-hole everyone into the same little boxes, or try to anyway? Disclaimer: No offense is intended toward anyone at my church or anyone at the public library. I'm just frustrated. Here's how the summer reading program works at the church: DD and I had a misunderstanding. There are no grade levels on the books. The books are divided into CHARACTER BUILDING, OLD TESTAMENT, NEW TESTAMENT, BOARD BOOKS (for the little ones), TEENS and one other section I'm not remembering right now. We have a 1200 member church and probably half of those are kids from newborn to high school. The summer reading program is open to kids ages 0 (mom reads to them) to 12. So really, I don't understand why they have the teen section IN the children's library if the children's library (summer reading or not) stops at age 12. My guess is purely a space one--that they haven't made space in the adult library next door yet. Anyway, the library is ONLY open for 30 minutes after Sunday morning church, 30 minutes after Sunday evening church, and 30 minutes after Wed. evening church. Those are the only times books may be checked out. All books are evaluated for doctrinal correctness and cleanliness of content BEFORE being placed in the library. The children are divided into age groups. I'm trying to remember them all but I think they are: 0-2, 3-5, 6-8, 9-11, and 12yo. The parent has to sign a permission form for the kid to use the library which basically says that they will take responsibility for fines, lost items, borrower's limit, blah blah blah. Each child is limited to checking out 4 books at any one time. Each child is limited to HAVING out 4 books at any one time. So if they check out 4 and finish 2, next time they are only allowed to check out 2. When the child checks out his/her books, the barcode is scanned on their library card and then the barcode is scanned on their books. They are also given a piece of paper that has to be filled out by the parent. The paper has 4 blanks on it. The parent must write down the titles of the books the child read and sign that the child read them. This paper is returned to the library and the child gets a prize for each paper which is completely filled in. There are also door prizes each time the library is open (drawn at random) and each child participating gets a canvas book bag with their name just for entering. At the end of the reading program (which is over July 14 here because ps starts so early) they give first, second, and third prizes for each age group. Only books from the church library, checked out from the church library, count toward the reading program. A child may not read a sibling's books and get credit for those. If a child wants to read a sibling's books, the sibling must read them, turn them back in to the library, and then the other child in the family may check them out and read them. Only books checked out on that child's card count toward that child's total number of books read. A child may not read a book at home and get credit for it even if the church library has the same title and that title is checked out by another person. There are no grade levels on the books, but the library volunteers (other church members) know all the kids participating and if they presume a book to be "out of a child's level" either up or down, they will tell the child to put the book back and choose another. I saw it happen on Sunday when I was there even with the parent of the child standing right there. Each family is given an info packet about the summer reading program and a whole section is devoted to the fact that the kids may not read books "out of their level." Most all of that section deals with kids reading BELOW their level though. I don't think they thought of kids reading ABOVE their level. The thing is, doing the math, the summer reading program lasts for 5 weeks (June 15-July 14) and that's 15 services, 2 on Sunday and 1 on Wednesday each week. A child could check out 4 books Sunday morn, read them Sunday aft, and return them, checking out 4 more on Sunday evening, read those and check out 4 more on Wed evening. So the way I understand the rules on the borrower's limit and the times the library is open (only for 30 minutes after each service) the max number of books a child could get per week is 12 and over 5 weeks that's 60 books. So I know of at least one time in the past a child won and they had read more than that. The only thing that I can figure is, the church bldg. and office is open for outreach during the week and maybe sometimes the library is open too and I'm not aware of it. That has always puzzled me but that's not the point of this thread. The point was that dd was upset that she couldn't read a book that she wanted to read, even after I had told her she could as far as I was concerned. Like many gifted kids, she gets very upset at perceived injustices or when rules don't make sense or seem arbitrary. And I needed to come here and vent because there are so many folks IRL who wouldn't understand or who would think I was bragging on my kids or thinking too much of myself or my kids and their abilities for even bringing up "reading above grade level."

Just wanted to join you in your screaming. Eragon only kept my older dd occupied for a week or less.

Hi ladies and gents, It has taken me till today to get back over here. Wow, what a treasure trove of material in these replies. I want to thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to me. As I digest the replies, I might need to ask a few additional questions but it is such a comfort to hear that others are walking the same road. As to extracurriculars, she is REALLY into music. She's been in the homeschool band since she was 6. She also does a lot of other things, which I'll post later. The thing is, trying to find the balance between boredom, being too busy, being challenged enough, and being TOO challenged can be, well, tricky at times. I have posted this on other forums for homeschoolers and the advice was always "Don't accelerate her" even from other homeschoolers. And I'm thinking, "But what if she accelerates herself and I can't keep her from it?" Since I posted this, they have changed the laws in my state. A child, regardless of schooling choice (ie public, private, other) including homeschool, must now attend between the ages of 7 and 17. And they have added some sort of legal language to the new law addendum (which goes into effect with the 2009-2010 school year) which seems to say/imply that in order to graduate high school prior to 17, a child must follow the ps curriculum to a tee, even if homeschooled. So I'm sure if that's the case, that will influence my decisions as well. At least that's the way it read to me when I read it. Thanks again, and if anyone has any other ideas I'd be happy to hear them.

Hi everyone, My name is Tabitha and I frequently post on the Sonlight forums and recognize some of you from there. I haven't posted here since September (or much of anywhere really) because I have a 20 month old ds that keeps me running. This post is about my 11yo dd going into 6th grade. She read on a 10th grade level in 2nd grade. I let her help pick her curriculum to a certain extent each year but I told her that her father and I have the final say. Just to give you an idea of what type of child we're talking about, she was extremely sad last night that Eldest by Christopher Paolini only had 600 something pages in it and wasn't longer. She started it last week and will finish it this week. We have about "60 days' worth" (according to the schedule in the Instructor's Guide) of Sonlight Core 5 Eastern Hemisphere left and she will probably finish these this summer. Since school is out for the summer (meaning all our classes and commitments are finished and the pool is about to open next week), we were sitting up last night trying to decide what to order for next year. She just loves going through catalogs with me and will frequently take the catalogs from me and read them cover to cover first before I even get there. She said "oooooooh I like the looks of SL Core 6" but then she said she REALLY liked the looks of the high school level Cores. The thing is, I can't count on a curriculum purchase to last us a full school year, even with supplementing, drawing it out, following rabbit trails of her own interest, etc. This is not a new problem and it's a great problem to have. At some point during her jr. high years (grades 6-8), I fully expect her to switch to high school level work in all subjects and to do so WELL before the 9th grade if she continues how she currently is. So that brings up some questions: (1) Do I give high school credit for high school level work done in middle school? IE if she completes SL Core 100 in the 7th grade, do I give high school credits for that? (2) I know zippo about credits, how do I figure out how, how many, and when to award them? (3) I have no intention at this point of letting her graduate before her age appropriate school completion date of 2016 for social, emotional, etc. development reasons. She may be gifted but she's still only 11yo. Dual enrollment, yes, more than likely, but graduation no. SO THEN.. If she completes high school level work in middle school, what's left to do for the high school years? TIA for any help. Tabitha

Hi my name is Tabitha and I live in the Harvest area. I have a group on yahoo groups called North Alabama Trailblazers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/North-Alabama-Trailblazers that does field trips, playdates, seasonal parties, and various other support activities as needed for hsers in Madison, Limestone, and Morgan counties in AL and Lincoln county in TN. I met Tara through that group some years ago. I have 3 wonderful children, 2 girls and now a 1 year old boy. Free day at Space and Rocket Center through Smithsonian Museum Free Admission program is this Saturday September 27 but you must download passes at the following website: > This is on Saturday September 27, 2008. Please print out passes as follows: > The Space and Rocket Center is participating in the Smithsonian Free > Museum Day. Read about it at the Space and Rocket center website > http://www.spacecamp.com and then visiting the Smithsonian Museum > site linked there to get free museum passes. It's on Saturday, Sept. > 27, 2008. > > Museums all over the country are participating. Also, Botanical Gardens informed me that they will be having free day during Scarecrow Trail on Tuesday October 14th according to an email I received from Virginia Hurst. Hope this info is helpful to someone. Tabitha