[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect them to do those things, but I think they're kind of young to expect them to do them all independently. You do need to guide them, but try to find a way that doesn't involve standing over them and threatening them.

 

Can you isolate what exactly causes things to break down? Do they have a set order, or are the boys just expected to figure out what to do next? Do they all have to be done before school? Or could one or two tasks be done during their first break? Do they start off well, but then get distracted? What's the distraction? Do they respond to your threats? Or do they ignore them because they're empty?

 

The threats aren't empty. I'm a good 'follower-through-er.' But, yes, they get distracted. They really are good friends (for which I am thankful), and they want to play.

 

**I'm assuming, based on what you wrote, that they start tasks but then get distracted by goofing off together. Can you have them do their chores separately? That way they won't be distracting each other.

 

Boy A does the tasks in his room first, while Boy B does tasks in the kitchen (or other parts of the house). When they're done, they switch.

 

Yup. This works. The sad truth is that I just don't want to have to keep doing this kind of thing. I wonder if it will ever end?

**How about eliminating some chaos? Can you make them each a flow chart? Use pictures or drawings to show them what to do next? That way they have a clear, linear chart to tell them what to do next.

 

Boy A: Clear dishes. Brush teeth. Wash face. Comb hair. Extra chore. (and so on)

 

 

** They'll need something to help them keep it moving. Maybe a time-limit? Give them plenty of extra time at first, and then as they improve, shorten the time. What can they do when they're finished before the time is up? A sticker on a chart? A coupon for 10 extra minutes of computer time that day? A coupon for an extra 5 minutes to read before lights out? Keep it small and low-maintenance, but you'll know what they'll like. Eventually you can phase out the rewards.

I haven't tried anything tangible like tickets. But I'm pretty sure they would like that. Again, the problem is that I wish the tickets weren't needed!

** You will need to supervise them as you're teaching them any new routine, but don't threaten them. Let the timer be the bad guy. Calmly remind them (occasionally) "There are 10 minutes left on the timer!" Whatever consequence you set for NOT finishing before the timer, follow through. (When we did something similar, the child had to lay on his bed for X minutes after school, before his "free time" could start. they *hated* listening to their brothers start playing when they had to lie on their bed! :)

 

** Something I used with great success to help the kids learn their morning routines, was our morning chore CD. I picked 3 or 4 peppy, upbeat songs. Before each song I recorded my directions. "OK. During this song, Boy A needs to do his bathroom chores. Boy B needs to take care of his dishes and a kitchen chore. Boy C needs to make his bed and get dressed. " The song would play while they worked. They had to be back at the table by the time the song ended." We did this until they knew their routines. It was a fun way to start the day! :)

 

These are great ideas. They do respond well to timers, and music, too. What I'm wishing is that getting all of that done would just be routine. It's been over a YEAR. What did people do in the 'old days' when kids had oodles of actual WORK to do in the morning? This is hardly WORK -- these are simple, non-taxing, self-care tasks. I'm not asking them to plow the upper field or muck out the horse stalls!

 

Thank you for your many good ideas.

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

Just keep training them. It takes a long time. My teens can do it now but it's taken years of training and consistency. My younger two, 8 & 10, still walk around like they are following a delightful butterfly only they can see. I have to come alongside them frequently and keep them on task in most of what they do. I feel your pain.

 

Now THIS is helpful to read! In my mind I'm the only homeschooling mom whose kids are following that butterfly! (Actually, in my house, it's an invisible Pokemon guy or Bionicle character -- but the result is the same...)

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

I did 1-4 at that age, although it wasn't putting in the dishwasher, but setting the table as well. I didn't have to remake the bed after stripping for wash until I was 9. I don't recall any threats or ever forgetting. My mother was very much on a timetable, however, and we woke, ate, left the house, had dinner, bed at EXACT times. Dinner was 6 sharp for over 50 years in her house.

I was the caboose, and I could never get my mother to tell me what she did to get all the other cars (a pack of boys) in line before I came along. I suspect austerity, rigid timetable, and 100% agreement between my parents went a long way.

 

My 'bed-making' expectations are about as low as they could be while still calling it 'bed-making.' ;) All they are required to do is pull up their comforters and get the pillows at the tops of their beds.

 

Maybe your mom should write a book. I would buy it!

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

I think those are extremely unrealistic expectations for children of those ages.

 

Ria

 

Which parts do you find unrealistic? The tasks themselves? Or the doing them without frequent adult intervention?

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

In my experience, it is the unusual child who will complete these tasks independently at 7 and 9 and even older. While I think the things you've outlined for them to do are very reasonable, independence in completing them is a different story. When you think about it from their perspective, they really don't have any internal motivation to do them. They most likely don't care if their clothes are picked up, dishes put away, teeth are brushed. You care- they don't. So it's a matter of training and repetition and more repetition and maybe behavioral methods if that suits you. And some kids don't ever really care as long as they have someone else to care for them:glare:.

 

Good luck,

Lawana

 

Well, you're certainly right that it's me who cares -- not them. But, darn it! I want to MAKE them care! And, darn it, I want them to be independent NOW, because, the sad truth is, I'm tired of the repetition.

 

So, it's helpful to hear your wise words. Thank you.

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

I think it is rare (but not impossible) for kids that age to be able to have the self-discipline to do all of that without supervision. Perhaps they need a carrot dangled in front of them to encourage more initiative. If you allow TV or computer time, perhaps they could earn their 30-minute coupon by completing said tasks by your deadline. If they accomplish it so many days in the week, then they could get rewarded with another treat - out for ice cream or a game of bowling or whatever fun, inexpensive treat that you find acceptible. If you are trying to change behavior, you need to change your strategy.

 

I agree with needing to change my strategy. We have changed it quite a few times, but obviously haven't found what will work consistently yet.

 

I think the truth may be that I just need to keep supervising. So, my behavior needs changing too.

[Am I unrealistic/unreasonable/out of my mothering mind?]

I believe it is reasonable for me to expect the following from my 7 year-old and 9 year-old boys in the mornings:

 

1)Clear all dishes after breakfast, rinse dishes, and put into dishwasher.

 

2) Get dressed, make bed.

 

3) Put pajamas and any other clothing away.

 

4)Brush teeth, wash face, comb hair. Or, shower and comb hair (for my older). Put toothbrush, toothpaste, comb away in drawer.

 

5)Complete one additional chore as indicated by daily chore chart (i.e. wipe down bathroom, vacuum playroom, take out recycling).

 

They have been taught (repeatedly) how to do each of these things. The list of expected chores is posted. The same tasks have been required daily for at least a year. They have no learning disabilities or out-of-the-ordinary behavioral issues.

 

While they never refuse to do what they are asked/told, they almost never complete all of these things without some kind of reminder/threat/supervision from me. They get started and wind up wrestling or laying on the floor or who-knows-what. They never argue, or even complain. They just don't complete these tasks without threats or supervision.

 

Kind gentle reminders get no results. Threats and direct supervision do.

 

I think they should be able to do these things consistently and independently. But they don't. I don't want to threaten, and don't think they should have to NEED supervision at these ages.

 

So, in your opinion, who and/or what is the problem here? Am I unrealistic?I am open to all ideas, opinions, suggestions. This is making me crazy.

[I am in shock: my oldest dd's math teacher]

My husband is usually impressed by the math skills of his previously-homeschooled students. He says they (usually) seem to know how to learn, how to study, how to ask good questions, and to be more mature than the traditionally schooled kids.

 

Just thought I'd throw that in there as an encouragement.

[Linguistic Remedies -- anyone have info about this curriculum?]

I was at work yesterday and the tutor next to me was working with 3 students out of her Linguistic Remedies teacher's guide. Yikes.

 

I only do math at that school, and know nothing about this new program.

 

There was a lot of getting the kids thinking about where/how certain sounds are formed in their mouths. The 'mouth placement' was somehow related to the spelling. (?) I think? Also, I see little posters of mouths forming sounds around the school. I think you're supposed to 'read' the mouth sounds somehow. :confused:

 

Based on what I saw/heard, I'm glad that's not how my kids are learning to read and spell. I'm wondering if any of you know anything about it.

[Did you ever read a children's book to dc's that you regretted..]

When I was teaching in a regular public school classroom, I read Where The Red Fern Grows aloud to my class.

 

This particular group of kids loved this story passionately. I often went far over my allotted reading time because we are all so engrossed.

 

When I read the end, some of the kids (quite a few, actually -- 7 or 8) were terribly upset. Angry, even. Angry at ME, I think, for putting them through it.

 

I certainly hadn't intended that. It's a beautiful story, wonderful to read aloud, and a classic, in my opinion. But I think some of the kids felt too 'exposed' having to deal with such sadness in a big group. I had not anticipated that.

 

So, I guess you'd say I regret that.

[Did you ever read a children's book to dc's that you regretted..]

I, too, have mixed feeling about all those Calvin and Hobbes books in my boys' room.

 

Also, when my son was in public school for kindergarten, his teacher read The BFG to the class. In the first few chapters the little girl is snatched out of her bed by a huge hand coming through the window. Yikes. Not an image my son needed in his mind at bedtimes.

[No Child Left Behind - anything good about it?]

IMO, the good thing about it is that it has put many severely underperforming (p.c. public school term of the era for "bad") schools under a microscope. Then it has helped those schools develop improvement plans and funneled money their way so they could work on those plans.

 

I call that an improvement over nothing at all being done about those schools.

 

This is not the same as saying NCLB is Good In General or Good For Your Particular Child. But, I'm sure it was good for some kids.

[For those who use Rightstart Math]

I have been very, very pleased with Right Start. My boys have such a solid understanding of math. And it has been just about painless. The lessons are very thoroughly planned so that each little thing you do prepares the child for the next. I think that's my favorite thing.

 

It has a lot of quick, frequent review. That is what I recommend to parents whose kids I tutor, and RS has it built in to the daily lessons.

 

It does take time, but I think it is absolutely worth it.

 

The games are fun and excellent reinforcement/practice.

 

My only criticism would be that occasionally some of the directions (for games, in particular) can be a little tricky to understand.

 

Also, I second the suggestion to include additional routine facts practice -- like the Flashmaster.

[If you were going to look round schools]

No one has mentioned this yet: find out about staff turnover. If teachers come and stay for a while, it may mean that good things are going on at that school. Beware of a school where teachers are hired but then frequently leave after just a few years. That may indicate a crummy principal, lack of support for discipline problems, and/or any number of other problems.

 

Also, I agree with a previous comment that the main thing impacting your child's education will be the individual teachers he gets. So, I'd ask how/if parents can go about getting the teacher/s they want. At some schools you can request teachers. Other schools do not take requests. Also, will they let you switch out of a class mid-term if you aren't satisfied with a class/teacher?

 

And, I'd come right out and ask about crummy teachers. i.e. "Would you say there are teachers on staff who most parents regularly try to avoid?" "How many?" You may be rebuffed for your question. Or it may be answered. You have nothing to lose by asking.

[Stuff -- I am sick of it! I'd love to have you join this topic]

I try to throw something away every single day.

 

Junk mail does not count. Putting something into a charity bag does.

 

I figure that if I'm reaching into a drawer to throw something out that there's likely an item next to it that can also go.

 

And I also figure that this is upwards of 400 items per year. All without having to sit down and actually purge out an entire closet or dresser. I can too easily convince myself that there just isn't time for such a large project.

 

One item. Every day. Much more manageable.

 

HTH!

 

I love this idea!

I'm starting today. Thanks!

[Stuff -- I am sick of it! I'd love to have you join this topic]

Our house has what I would call a bare-minimum amount of storage. We have no coat-closet, no basement, no attic, no shed, not one extra closet, not even a laundry room. There is not even a closet in the master bedroom -- just an armoire that we put there. We do have a one-car garage, but we keep the car in there.

 

We simply can't keep stuff. I like it this way. The lack of storage forces the issue.

 

I'm sure it would be much harder to keep the stuff away if I had a big house in the suburbs with all those empty closets!

 

I don't know if that's helpful. I suppose my point is that I sure don't miss the stuff.

[Pop-top Westfalia-type campers...would we regret buying one?]

bump

 

Trying again...

 

Maybe none of you own a camper. That may tell me something about my camper fantasy....

[Pop-top Westfalia-type campers...would we regret buying one?]

Any pop-top camper owners out there? We camp a lot in the summers. We need a new-to-us car. Every summer as I set up the tent again and again I wish for some kind of camper. I gaze across the campgrounds at women cooking in their RVs as I hunch over my Coleman stove for the 15th year.

 

I so much want a door to close when we camp. And a heater.

 

If you have owned one of these, could you share your experience with me? Did you love it? Hate it? Was it dependable? Convenient to camp in? Or was it just as much hassle as a tent? How did it drive?

 

Sigh...I have a happy fantasy about owning one. So do my kids. My husband does not share this fantasy. ;)

[Do you think homeschooling changes the parent/child relationship?]

I would have to agree with msjones.

 

We have been FORCED to work out issues that we have. Our personality issues that may have been glossed over have to be dealt with. It's the kind of things that take time. Time we wouldn't have if my dd was public schooled. I would not have seen the need to work diligently on my own personality and how to improve it in terms of my relationship with my child. I would still be in a quagmire of defensiveness as to my parenting, I'm afraid. I think I have learned to give my child more dignity instead of "laying down the law". 24/7 with dd has helped me do that. And let go of control...lessons that would've been long and hard in coming if I was not forced to face them.

 

My dd has had to come to terms with some of her own issues. Again, if we hadn't had all the time together to work it out, this would've been a longer, harder process.

 

As for the spirituality part. I can see what you are saying. I grew up a bit similar to what you were describing. Our family now makes much more time and communicates about spiritual things daily. At first it felt weird, almost "put on" and a bit self righteous...but practice makes perfect, you know! I think it is similar with many new habits that we know are probably beneficial for us, but aren't comfortable yet, kwim?

 

I like the point you make here about the parent working on her own behavior. I tend to be sarcastic and am something of a yeller. I have come a looooong way in controlling this with my family; home-schooling provides a perfect place to work on not-yelling-or-being-sarcastic day in and day out. ;)

 

I'm glad I was 'forced' by home-schooling to confront and deal with that nasty part of myself.

[Do you think homeschooling changes the parent/child relationship?]

I'm certain that home-schooling has changed family dynamics for us. In my opinion, those new dynamics are one of the best things about home-schooling.

 

I am forced to confront issues in my relationship with my kids. The days would be long and miserable if we didn't all have mutually respectful relationships, so we're all motivated to work on that. And we have time to work on that -- we wouldn't have much of that if they were at school.

 

I'm also very thankful that my kids see me as someone who likes to teach them, wants to help them, and looks forward to our time together. I love the things we get to talk about during schoolwork.

 

The improved relationships in our family are, for me, the very best part of home-schooling.

 

I wouldn't venture to presume that other parents "use" school as a way to "not have to deal with their kids," but I know it is easier for me to spend time working on the parent-child relationships in my family than it would be if they were at school 30 hours each week.

[Curiousity...Would you pay someone to homeschool your kids???]

I was a private home tutor.

 

After my first son was born, I quit teaching ps to be home full time. I was offered a job "home-schooling" (the family's term --not mine) a kindergartner who had very, very wealthy parents. I taught at his home 4 short mornings each week. My baby was there with me and cared for by the family's nanny.

 

That's how I got started home-schooling! As soon as I began tutoring (the very first day) I was thrilled by how enjoyable and effective it was in every way. Everything about it was better than teaching an entire class.

 

I later taught math and science for 2 girls who I would call 'real' home-schoolers. I taught once a week for 3 hours in their home to give their mom a break. (Again, the family was very well-off and paid me my hourly ps teaching wage.) That year, I was 'converted' and decided to home-school my own boys.

 

I'm so glad I had the chance to learn about home-schooling/home-tutoring/whatever-you-want-to-call-it during those years of teaching in other families!

[What do you consider basic elementary math?]

I'd add some geometry (finding and working with area, perimeter, volume, types of angles.)

 

Also, if you're talking about K all the way up to 6th, some beginning algebraic thinking (simple, 1-step algebraic equations shouldn't 'throw' a 6th grader), and some beginning statistics (average, mean, mode and their applications).

[Need Socialization articles & why to homeschool]

Yeah. None of those public school teachers have any sense. ;)

[Exercise videos that you actually enjoy/look forward to?]

Not aerobics, but I loved the Gaiam Intermediate Mat Workout Pilates video. I used it until I memorized it and was then able to do the workout while I watched TV.

 

The Beginning one was good, too, but I liked the harder one better.

 

Also, it's not a video, but I am LOVING Wii Fit's strength workouts and also the yoga. Some of the aerobics are great, but not all of them.

[Adoptees: what are your thoughts about open adoption?]

I was thinking about the original post about open adoptions. I typed up kind of a lot about some things, but I think it's too personal to share here and I've decided just to say that while I do think that whether to have an open adoption or not is something that should be decided on a case by case basis, as the bio sibling of an adoptee I am very glad that my brother's adoption was not an open adoption. I think that having his birth mother be a mysterious, anonymous, loving and brave but distant person was better for our family unity and one-on-one relationships than if she had been a real, living, breathing person who showed up at family events and whatnot.

 

Yes. This is sort of how I feel. I am happy just imagining my birth-mother to be a stable, pleasant adult who had an ill-advised passionate relationship with her handsome boyfriend as a teenager. I imagine that she reluctantly but bravely gave me up, and was then able to go on to finish her education, find a fulfilling career, then marry and have a lovely family when she was ready.

 

Doesn't that sound nice?

 

I like that idea enough and have enjoyed it for so long that it would be very difficult to learn that my birth mother was actually a drug addict or a rape victim or a prostitute. There are some things I'd just rather not know. So, I guess you could say I'm thankful that my adoption was/is closed.

 

I must add, however, that I very much wish I could assure her that I am well and that I appreciate her courage -- but without beginning a relationship with her.