Sputterduck
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Posts posted by Sputterduck
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Probably there is something disrespectful about it, but with one crucially important difference: Christianity is a religion with universalist aims (reaching over to other people, ideally reaching over to the whole humanity, etc.). Judaism is NOT. That is one of the things people keep misunderstanding, or not fully understanding, about Judaism.
Judaism is a binary system. The options are 1 and 0 - Jewish and non-Jewish. There is no "middle ground". Jewish and non-Jewish are both perfectly acceptable, but distinct realms of being (plus, Judaism is probably the only religion out there which makes it easier for outsiders to be righteous than for the insiders - the nation have exactly 7 commandments, and pretty reasonable ones, LOL). Judaism does not WANT, actually, a non-Jew to behave, worship, celebrate or live as a Jew. There is no attempt to reach out to outsiders or to include them, because it is understood that they have their own, separated, valid in itself and on its own ground, realm of existence, and are fine as they are and ought not be as Jews. Even potential converts are seriously discouraged several times before they make it into the tribe. It is not a universalist religion.
So, I can understand, in some way, why Christians would feel differently about their practices being adopted by other people, even if on a merely symbolic level, or why might that be a kind of an outreach. But Judaism simply does not "work" that way.
I understand that. But I do see people get up in arms about Christians being upset when Easter is about nothing more than the Easter Bunny, chicks, and eggs and not about Jesus's resurrection. And when Christmas is about nothing more than trees and lights and getting and giving gifts and Santa, not about Jesus's birth.
I can certainly understand Jewish people being bothered by the corruption or misunderstanding of their holidays. It's almost like... desecration of something holy. But why shouldn't the same care be shown to Christian holidays? Wanting everyone to know Jesus doesn't make it okay to strip down or corrupt the meaning behind something holy. I guess I'm saying I understand, but I don't understand why it's okay to corrupt one and not the other. Not saying that you are saying that, but many people feel that way.
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When Christians tell me that they love to see the stripes on the matzah because it reminds them of the stripes Jesus got while on the cross and make a fifth cup of wine for Jesus/Y'shua, I want to throttle them and say leave OUR religion alone -- for most of history Christians wanted Jews dead or converted.
I can see how that would upset you. That is extremely insensitive. I'm not even sure what to say about that one. Have you really had multiple Christians say that? :001_huh:
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Some of us get a hard to verbalize, but very strongly viscerally felt aversion at the practice.
Sigh.
I recognize that it is every person's right to worship and celebrate what and how they see fit - and there is nothing violent or illegal about such practices, so really, why should it rub us the wrong way? Especially if we ourselves are on the lax end when it comes to observance?
But it still does.
I know, it is totally nuts; as repugnant as it can be, it escapes a fully rational explanation.
If I had to rationalize it, I would talk to you about cultural appropriation, taking the elements of one system without the whole framework (thus removing the meaning I associate with them from them, seeing it through a distorted light), about fundamental logical absurdity of Christians celebrating some holidays whose inner meaning is to emphasize the difference between the Jews and the nations (Chanuka being maybe the most obvious example - and it is not even a Biblical feast!), about matters which are perhaps a matters of poor taste, and so on and so on.
But the principal, instinctive reaction is just hard to even get verbally, especially in light of the historical dynamics between the Jews and the Christian nations. There is something irreverent about it, but not "cute irreverent", like a rebellious, but smart child - something disturbingly irreverent, something which does not respect some delineations I have made in my mind, or which the history had made... if it makes sense.
Ultimately, however, it is a free country and do as you will - it is just that there is this weird, but bad weird taste to it. Just my $.02.
Couldn't the same be said by Christians about Easter and Christmas?
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You can also call your local synagogue.
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I am a real live Jew(ess) -- I am even Orthodox so I celebrate all these holidays and a whole bunch y'all don't-- and I am totally confused by it all.:001_huh:
First of all, Chanukah??? Not even in the Bible (Jewish or Christian) people! Purim too. Cute little holidays but NOT "Biblical" at all. I guess you celebrate Chanukah because a big to-do is made about them here in America (to compensate for Xmas). Jesus never celebrated Chanukah or Purim.
Second, why don't you call them by their REAL names? It took me a minute to figure out what a Festival of Trumpets is -- we don't use trumpets for Rosh HaShana, we use a ram's horn shofar. If you are going to do OUR holidays, at least call them by their correct name and spend the $500 to get a real build it yourself sukkah :001_smile: .
Third, but most important, didn't your god (Jesus) say that Christians did not need to be ritually circumcised (like with a knife on the man parts at eight days) but rather be circumcised in their hearts and that there was no need for the old covenant, that the Christians have a NEW covenant, no the old one (from the Jews) re-done up? You have holidays (love the trees and glittery lights and chocolate bunnies!) , you have a religion, why do you have co-opt ours??!?!? The Jewish holidays have NOTHING to do with Jesus (except as a Jew he did the Biblical ones).
I am saying a lot of this in somewhat of a tongue-in-cheek manner but there is some seriousness attached to it too. If you like Jewish stuff, great, but be truthful and say it is cool to do other religion's holiday stuff don't co-opt it.
Christians consider Judaism part of their heritage. It's true that many don't really understand Jewish holidays, but those who are interested in celebrating them would probably *love* some education on it.
As for your third point, you are right. :) I don't think anyone thinks they, as a Christian, are required to celebrate Jewish holidays or follow the old covenant. However, it's natural, don't you think, to be interested in your religious heritage? I went to a synagogue for a year to learn Hebrew and my teacher loved to take me through rooms there and explain everything we saw. I loved her. She was 84 years old, born and raised in Germany, and one of the most fiery people I've ever known. Sorry, I'm going off topic, but I loved her!
Anyway, there is a lack of understanding, but it isn't due to people being unwilling to learn. I can't imagine that there is any disrespect meant.
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I wonder how most Jewish people feel about the co opting and attempt to gloss over what is distinctly Jewish practice with a Christian gloss of their traditions. The man I am married to not only resents it but is absolutely befuddled by the practice.
Should Christians be upset about non-Christians celebrating Christmas and Easter? Happens all the time. Some do get upset, some don't, of course.
A little more grace all around is a good thing. I'm a fan of not getting upset about something unless someone means harm.
FWIW, I grew up in a non-religious family but we were regularly invited to Jewish holidays with friends of the family. It was fascinating always to me as a little girl and I have much respect for the holidays.
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I was the girl sent. There was nothing else going on. I hadn't been sexually active yet (although I was having oral sex, even in school) and I had never done drugs, or even touched alcohol.
:grouphug:What did you feel about it? Did you feel rejected? Did it help? Do you feel that they were justified?
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No. Way. There are many things that are more important than education. Education is very important, but good parenting, a loving home, etc. are far more important.
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Just for kicks, I told my kids that their LA assignment today was to write a story about anything they wanted. Ds2 immediately said, "A chicken died. The end." I said it had to have at least 5 sentences. After some major whining, ds1 (the comic book author) telling me he is more of a picture drawer than a storyteller, and them wheedling it down to 4 sentences, I got them to produce the following:
Ds2 (2nd grade)- there was a oshawhat. and a dude He said Hi. the oshawhat killed him. the carcass (he asked me how to spell this) roted.
Ds1 (3rd grade)- once upon a time there was an encyclopedia. maxxor went and crushed the encyclopedia. a snake died in a chaotic toilet. maxxor revolted quickly. the end!
I cannot even tell you how many times we've gone over the capitalization rules. On regular school assignments, I make them correct the errors. Hopefully, it will sink in one day.
:lol:
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Just boil the whole head with a little salt. That's how my nana did it. Yum.
Also, just chop it in thin strips and use it to top anything. It's especially good with sour cream and hot sauce on it when you use it as a topping.
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I don't know why people do that. (But I am happy that the WTM has nerds ;))
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I will be praying for you. I know you must be under spiritual attack for your obedience as a missionary. Take each day as it comes and let word roll.
Aww, thanks. :) I've seen two churches fall, a pastor taken down, and we've had to send a missionary back to rehab since I've been here. It's stressful, but I've learned how important it is to guard myself against anything that might ever hurt other Christians. Seems obvious, I know, but the pastor, and the people running the churches didn't mean to ever get into anything that would ever bring them down. And they certainly didn't ever mean for things that they thought would remain private to affect Christians around them, but when you're in the ministry that's what happens when you fall.
The message I've taken out of this all is: No one ever means to fall. It's always a slow fade (like this song says...
) that ends in disaster. Small changes and before you know it, you've gone way too far. And it can end with you being removed from ministry in a crash of flames that affects everyone around you. I never want to be the cause of things like I've seen here.So, I guard myself and make sure I'm not adding to the drama. Our little section of ministry here is now just about drama-free. At least for the major stuff. There are always mini-crisis things happening, but that's what you sign up for in becoming a missionary. This guy needs an eye exam, this child has be taken to the doctor, this lady's husband was just put in jail and her babies need food, this completely drunk guy came by and had questions about God. Those I can handle. That's why I'm here.
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In that sense, yes.
2nd breakfast is still done nowadays; kids are supposed to bring food to school to eat in the breakfast break around 9 or 9:30, and in elementary the whole class will sit and eat together. (They will have eaten breakfast at home at 7am before leaving, and they will get lunch at the school around 12 noon.)
I thought that J. R. R. Tolkien made up second breakfast. :001_huh: :D
Do you ever have elevensies? :tongue_smilie:
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8. It's always around there. I never had drama before being a missionary. I hate drama. Now it's constant and none of it originates with me, so I can't fix it. I am taking steps to minimize it's effects on my household, as part of my new year's resolution. :)
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Growing up in Germany, we had five meals, four small one and a large one.
1. Breakfast at 6:30am before going to school -oatmeal or bread with jam.
2. 2nd breakfast at school (around 9am), brought from home. Typically, you brought a whole grain sandwich with cheese or meat (just two slices of bread, maybe with a bit of butter, and the cheese, no sauces, mayo, salad leaves etc) and an apple. You got milk at the school.
3. Lunch. Either at school or, for kids who had parents/grandparents home, at home. Fully cooked meal.
4. Afternoon "vesper". Usually sweet. A roll with jam, or cake. This is a typical meal to invite people for coffee, around 3 or 4pm.
5. Dinner around 7pm. Bread and cheese, salad or veggies. (If lucky, there might be lunch leftovers.)
There was no snacking in between, and no food after dinner.
Most people I know still eat like this.
No way!!! Germans are Hobbits?
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My second grader does no free writing. It's all forced. So, I cannot tell you. My third grader does free writing, but it's mostly in the form of comic book/graphic novel, so not in paragraph form. I have a few samples of their forced writing on my blog. I have a very hard time even getting them to do narrations.
Yeah, same with mine. It gets to the first word he can't spell and stops there. He cannot stand to not know something. *sigh* Plus, his handwriting is not efficient and takes him forever. Every other subject is great. Writing, though, is his Achilles' heel.
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Maybe you can give her just the whites of eggs every day. I have egg whites every morning. :) Much healthier without the yellow part.
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Beans. They are easy and have a ton of protein.
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Could it be due to stress with your hubby's situation? I have *terrible* *vivid* dreams in times of change or stress.
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He should take his book and lie down in bed with it if the noise is bothering him.
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Those folks shouldn't come to El Paso. Every public restroom has mulitiple signs in englsh and spanish telling you to not only wash your hands with soap and water but to also flush your toilet paper.:001_huh:
I was told that it was because many of the Juarez residents have plumbing that can't accommodate toilet paper. So thy are not in the habit of doing so.
Yep :) Lots of people coming up don't know they are supposed to flush their paper. Just like lots of Americans come down and clog toilets with their toilet paper. Even if you know, changing habits can be hard. You sit on the toilet and do your normal thing without thinking.
In border areas and also hotels that cater to Americans, you see signs that ask you not to flush your paper. I'm sure some Mexicans think, "Why in the world would someone flush their toilet paper??" :tongue_smilie:
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Did you catch where Splutterduck has ruined Phantom of the Opera for me now?
Did you just call me Splutterduck?
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I just want to say that I now have a twisted version of Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Phantom of the Opera' playing in my head.
"The Phaaaaaaantom Poooper's in the thread..."
I have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard :lol:
Christians who observes Jewish holidays
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
I know that JWs have long discouraged Christmas, though they did celebrate it at one point, but like you, I've never heard of it being discouraged elsewhere in the past.
I have read that the early church purposefully chose the dates to correspond with pagan holidays to help bridge the gap for new Christians. I think that's a nice thing, honestly. :) And of course pagan traditions, like the lit tree, got continued by former pagans and then taken up more universally by Christians because that's how humans tend to do things.