zarabellesmom
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Posts posted by zarabellesmom
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Lots of people have added this caveat of "unless there's a learning disorder." I find myself wondering how a learning disorder would be discovered before it was too late in a circumstance like this. I have a 2e child who reads well. If not for the formal schoolwork we've done, I don't think I would know at all about her difficulties. They just don't appear in the course of life outside school. Yet they have had a major impact on her progress in learning math. She's a gifted kid, born to two parents identified as gifted in their own school years, one of whom is an engineer, so it would seem we would have had every reason to expect she could learn whatever she wanted to fairly quickly, whenever she decided.
I wonder this as I know someone in my own life who has chosen not to teach any formal math to her kids, with the reasoning that they will learn it quickly if/when they decide they want to, with the rationale that since she and her husband are very smart, the kids obviously won't have any issues. It didn't play out this way for us, even given the fact that my child has a very high IQ.
Exactly this! I had no reason to expect two children with learning disabilities given my history and my husband's. Maybe it's my anxiety or just a bad experience, but going forward I hope for the best and plan for the worst just so I'm prepared. I'd hate to be blindsided by a learning disability with so little time to remediate it. I'm ticked enough that I didn't figure out I had one dyslexic and one dysgraphic until they were each in third grade!
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We dropped Singapore for BA in order to save my daughter's love of math. It was painful to convince her that she needed to solve lots of unchallenging problems when she had already demonstrated mastery. Only you can know how much practice your student needs, but going with BA alone worked out well for us.
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We finished through 5C and I have not seen the algebra book, only the pre algebra. It's a fantastic text and challenging. Is it possible to have a crush on a text book? Yes, I like it that much. It would be a shame to skip it. I'm sure someone else will be better able to chime in on whether it's necessary, but I cast my vote in favor of doing it.
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Parentheses, Exponents, Multiplication, Division, Addition, Subtraction.
My big issue with it is that a lot of students who are "applying the rule" and don't understand the rule will look at something like 3-4+5 and say "Well, I do addition before subtraction, so 4+5 is 9 and then 3-9 is -6".
PEMDAS makes my daughter very angry. The first time she saw it was in a test prep book a few weeks ago. The problem is not her understanding of the order of operations, which she has down cold, but is exactly what you mention above. She insists that PEMDAS is NOT accurate and wants to know why anyone would teach that to unsuspecting math students.
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Everyone has answered your question already, but I just wanted to add that I don't think a 7 yo needs to do math for an hour unless he loves math and is doing fun stuff of his own accord.
Just a tip from someone who expected way too much from her oldest kid and had to apologize when he was a teenager...... He doesn't hold it against me thankfully!
I totally agree with the above. And I would caution you to examine your reasons for wanting him to be ahead. My oldest is advanced in math because she NEEDED to be. Here is how it worked... When we did a chapter on two digit addition with carrying, first, we did only the number of problems she needed to do to show mastery. She gets math really quickly so it usually didn't take long. Then when she had that figured out, usually in just one lesson, I'd say, "And look, you can do the same thing with numbers as big as you want. And you can add columns of more than two numbers the same way. Try some challenge problems, get them all correct and move on. Then when the more advanced topics were taught later, we had already covered them. We'd go straight to the chapter test and if we needed to cover something we would go back and do so. She always asked for more math. She really enjoyed math and asked for more unless it was boring (which was only when it wasn't challenging). When the first Beast Academy came out in April of her first grade year, we were so relieved. She needed the challenge. She wanted it. The challenge kept her interested in math.
My younger daughter is not advanced. She likes math (which is important to me) and we move at the pace that she needs. She will finish Beast Academy 3D this May at the end of her third grade year. We spend what I would consider a reasonable amount of time on math for a third grader (usually thirty minutes or less). If she gets frustrated, we just put it away. The next day, we pick it up with fresh eyes and that usually resolves the frustration. Sometimes she is having such a good time, she asks to do a little more.
My goal when we finish elementary math is to have a very strong foundation without creating dislike. For my oldest, I can totally say that we met this goal. So far, so good with my youngest.
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Yes, the WJ is standardized achievement testing, so it works. Done! :)
You peeps on the learning challenges board are fantastic. I'm new to this journey and you are so generous with your time answering all my crazy questions. I appreciate all of you.
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Interesting. Could be. The fluency scores were her lowest. That's probably related to low processing speed and working memory, no? It kills me because the information is in there, it just takes a little longer for it to work its way out. I'm learning to be patient. I'm not patient by nature.Ok, I just pulled my son's report. This is for the WJ-III, but I assume the WJ-IV is the same. It says Academic Fluency and gives a score and then under it are Reading Fluency, Writing Fluency, and Math Fluency, each with scores.
I do know that a group of low scores will give an index score that is even lower because it is more rare to have all three scores low than it is to have one or two low (it works the same way with high scores). Maybe that's what happened?
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Academic fluency is (I believe) derived from all of the fluency scores--so math fluency, reading fluency, etc.
The PASS test is not the best test in the world, but if your state is happy with it, it will get the job done with less stress than the other options. I would have the goal to be to move over to a more mainstream test within a few years though.
The reading level on the non-reading parts of the tests like the ITBS is purposely lowered so that reading it won't get in the way of most test takers. But you're right, if the reading is a problem, then it is testing reading comprehension and not science or social studies or whatever.
I agree, giving the PASS might be the best idea for youngest this year (unless I can count the WJ IV). I feel pretty good about my oldest taking the Stanford 10. Now that we have a handle on her ADHD, she will probably test just fine.
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Academic fluency is (I believe) derived from all of the fluency scores--so math fluency, reading fluency, etc.
The PASS test is not the best test in the world, but if your state is happy with it, it will get the job done with less stress than the other options. I would have the goal to be to move over to a more mainstream test within a few years though.
The reading level on the non-reading parts of the tests like the ITBS is purposely lowered so that reading it won't get in the way of most test takers. But you're right, if the reading is a problem, then it is testing reading comprehension and not science or social studies or whatever.
That seems like a logical explanation for academic fluency, but it's actually the second lowest score on the report, just under sentence reading. The other fluency scores are quite a bit higher. Some of this stuff is really puzzling.
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And you don't have to tell your child the scores. We didn't get our score results for awhile after (forget how long), and my kids had long since moved on to thinking about other things. No one was asking me how they scored on the tests.
I didn't tell them. They are enrolled in school now, and I didn't show them the test scores that they did at the school last spring, either. There was no benefit to telling them. They've had some scary low scores, and I don't want them to know.
Total agreement.
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Ok, I am looking at my oldests PASS results and I remember what bothered me... 😂 She is dysgraphic. Her psych evaluation took place just two days before I administered the PASS and the PASS showed her as overall high performance in Language. Something seems off about that. I think it actually sums up my whole feeling about standardized testing. It seems like an enormous waste of time and money.
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Did your psych report include suggested accommodations? Anything the report says, you can do. My ds has an IEP for state funding purposes, and I can tell you every single little detail is hashed out in the IEP. There are check boxes that say how the testing is handled.
If your state will accept testing that you can administer, I would. Just saying. That way you can slow it down, doing just 1-2 sections a day. Look at your paper trail and use all the accommodations.
Btw, if you can get the Woodcock Johnson, it's largely done orally, no ceiling, one hour. Would cost you more, but it's great. And if your psych evals are recent (within the last 6 months), I would submit the achievement testing from those.
Yup, you said she was just eval'd. Submit that testing.
Stupid question, but do you mean the Woodcock Johnson IV? Because that was done at her evaluation and it never occurred to me to use that. The state doesn't specify which test, only that I test. Bang, mission accomplished.
Speaking of the Woodcock Johnson IV, what is "Academic Fluency"??? Most of our testing has detailed information, but all I have for this one is a score (and not a great one).
I have given the PASS test before(when my oldest was in the third grade) and I didn't love it. I don't recall why now. Maybe I should pull out her results and see if I can remember what bothered me.
And as for accommodations, our report recommends time and a half for standardized testing and says nothing about having it read to her. How valuable can a test be when you can't read it for Pete's sake. I mean, I get that the reading portion is testing reading, but if the science portion is ALL reading then it's not testing my child on science, it's just another reading test.
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I live in the state of GA and we have to do standardized testing in 3rd, 6th and 9th grade. This year is a testing year for both my daughters. We've chosen the Standford 10 because I can have it administered locally and it's untimed. I think my oldest will be mostly ok. We definitely are not common core aligned at my house and so I'm a little worried for both of them on that front. Anyway, I bought the Spectrum test prep book for both grades and I just feel sick. There is soooo much reading. I mean, I knew there was, but... I don't have to submit the test results, just keep them for my records. I'm suffering from serious test anxiety and I'm NOT EVEN THE ONE TAKING THE TEST. Someone, talk me off the cliff here because I'm ready to jump. I can't be the only one in this situation. I don't want my third grader to come home and tell me she's stupid (she most definitely isn't) and I don't want to receive these results and feel like we are doing a bad job when I know know know we aren't. I mean, I just had her evaluated by the psychologist and her vocabulary, math, etc. scores were amazing. That's not a fluke. What do you do? Can I just tuck them away without ever looking at them? (Denial could really work here.)
How does everyone else deal with this?
Teresa
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When we're were in Ireland, we used our Verizon phones for ten dollars every 24 hour period. Not a great deal, but we only used it when absolutely necessary. You have to set it up that way on the Verizon website.
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If you email Barton she'll send you a document with three other ways to work on sight word spelling. My DS does well with the original way, but he still misreads sight words frequently even if he can read them ok on the flashcards. Mixes up were & where, has & as, of & off, etc. I need to try the method frogger suggested.
Thank you. I'm always amazed at how quickly she responds. She must get a lot of emails, but she always gets back to me.
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Yeah, it can take time to really understand, especially if you learn very differently. Rote memorization is a different process than learning material through conceptual understanding. For some, without other things to hang the information on, it is like trying to hold onto sand.
I cannot rote memorize numbers. I CAN rote memorize words. They process differently in my brain. When I was about 10 my parents moved to a new city. I was struggling to learn our phone number. Just reciting it over and over or writing it over and over didn't help one iota for long term recall. Mom finally helped me come up with some mnemonics to make the numbers stick. I finally had something to hang those numbers on. You know what? I remember that phone number better than any phone number I have ever had again, and that was decades ago. But if I were just rote memorizing it wouldn't have stuck at all. There was nothing for my brain to hang the numbers on, if that makes sense.
My brother is the opposite. Numbers stick in his head very well. Written words? Nope. His comprehension is high for spoken/auditory input but visual is terrible. His spelling is atrocious. Spelling patterns don't stick. Just repeatedly writing words over and over and over doesn't help him at all. He has to have something else to hang those words on. He needs associations. And time to think.
DD does better if things are linked to pictures. She is very visually oriented. DS does better if there is a strong auditory and conceptual component.
Not sure any of that made sense...
It ALL makes sense. We have been trying to memorize sight word spelling Barton style... Very frustrating and doesn't work for her at all. We've made up some mnemonics and printed little cards. For example, we have a card that says, "Mr. Mister Rooster" and has a picture of a rooster on it. She came up with that one on her own. We also have Mrs., Mister Rooster's Sister and somehow I managed to find a picture of a hen in a tutu to put on that card. We laugh every time we see it. Anyway, we've had a lot more luck with this. We're also working on Times Tales which was of absolutely no use to my oldest. She just doesn't think that way apparently. My little one, however, is doing remarkably well though we are taking it more slowly than the instructions recommend. Anyway, the other thing I've learned about her learning is that we really need to "over-learn" something to make it stick, and even then we have to review pretty frequently. She's a very visual learner. That's not me at all. I take in information best by reading it. Jokes on me, right?
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Yes, time and lots of practice.
Does she have any developmental vision issues? DD and DS have developmental vision issues that have caused some glitches like this. Me too. I had an eval through a COVD for me, as well, and found that my eyes NEVER actually hit exactly on target. I am always slightly off so basically I am seeing words sort of with more of my peripheral vision. Makes it hard to see the little differences and it means it takes a lot more time to master this.
Yes, she has been seen by the COVD. She seems ok in that regard. It's hard for me to understand how hard rote memorization is. Of course, our evaluation was only in November so I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing I guess.
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What I might try-
I would constrain the flash card pile to these three flash cards just for a little while and train her to look for the differences. Lay out the three cards on the table and point out the differences. All the silent letters etc. should be marked in red. Go through them a few times specifically pointing at the h or apostrophe and say the word. I'd probably run my finger across the bottom and stop at the h or apostrophe pointing at it while I say the word. Then when you do "were" your finger will go all the way across without stopping. Once or twice after you point at each word and say them then have her say them WITH you 2 or 3 times using the same finger motion. I wouldn't have her read them by herself the first couple days although this is dependent on how difficult sight words are for your child. After a few days start by reading them with her and then have her read it by herself. When having her read the flash card by herself go ahead and point to the differences in the same manner as before to have her automate looking for the difference. Explaining the difference and automating it is different. When she is reading it will have to be automatic. I would take just a minute to do this before each lesson for a few days depending on your child. Once she says the wrong word she is practicing the wrong word and then the next time she will wonder which one was the right one so for awhile do it with her until you really think she has them down. Then move to you doing the finger motion for a day or two. Then move to her doing the motion and stopping her finger at the difference and reading it. It sounds like a lot but really you are looking at about 1 minute before each lesson and then do your regular lesson. Once she can do it by herself without you reminding her at least three times you can add them to your review pile. I also would add another game thing at the END of our quick lesson where I would rearrange the flash card and have them find "we're" or "where" then mix up the cards and find a different word. But this needs to be when she has had a lot of exposure. You don't want her guessing, you want her looking for the difference. Guessing will get rid of the automaticity you are looking for so only play something like that after she knows and will look for the right cue.
Don't forget to review sometimes! They will go away unless she is reading them in books and seeing them all the time.
This sounds great!!! And yes, we review review review. It takes a long time for something to really stick.
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I love that the Tennessee aquarium has one way traffic. In the Georgia aquarium I felt like I was going to lose my kids in the bustle of people moving in every direction. Agreeing with the original poster that the big animals are amazing in Atlanta, but having lived in Chattanooga for awhile and getting to enjoy the aquarium there at off peak times... It's fantastic.Glad you enjoyed it. We didn't. It felt like being in an arcade and the viewing areas seemed so small. I guess we've been spoiled by the Tennessee Aquarium's calm interior and larger viewing areas. For me GA aquarium was sensory overload. Dh and dd enjoyed the viewing tunnel but I couldn't go through because it aggravated my vertigo and made me feel like throwing up. We're closer to the GA aquarium but drive to TN because we prefer it, though it was neat to see some different animals than the usual ones in TN.
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My daughters both got B. My youngest is mostly better after about four days and my oldest has been down for a solid week with a pretty high fever, very sore throat, coughing... It's aggravating her asthma as well. Today she seemed a lot better and was actually fever free at bedtime. I'm hoping for a good day tomorrow.
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My daughter is having a really hard time differentiating between these words when she reads. She's not having as much trouble spelling them. She did fine on the lesson on contractions and totally gets that we're is a contraction of the two words we and are, but she reads we're as were every single time. Where is frequently were as well. I hate that these stinking words are so close in spelling. It's making us crazy! Anyone with any tips?
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My eldest, perfectionist, hadn't spoke much until he learnt to read fluently at about 2.5yo. Then he suddenly began speaking in full complex sentences. Apparently he didn't want to say words without knowing how they were written.
Two of my daughter's first words were strawberry and spatula. 😂 Sometimes they like to wait till they have truly mastered something. Show offs.
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We are. My daughter is anxious to take it, but down with the flu.
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Often the problems at the beginning of the chapter are easier. Maybe have her do a few to show mastery and then move on to the harder ones? Then she could move through it more quickly and find the place where she is actually challenged. Just an idea.
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Essential Oils
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted
It broke my daughter out in hives and that was worse than the inattention. Essential oils are not at all essential for kids with plant based allergies.