zarabellesmom
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Posts posted by zarabellesmom
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Can the 7th grader currently type fluently to get her thoughts out? If she cannot, then I would wait and focus, at least for a semester, on getting her typing speed up. My dd, straight ADHD, found writing excruciating but had a bump around 7th grade. Part of it was developmental I think, and part of it was the merging of finally being able to type and improvements from doing metronome work. Heathermomster has instructions for how to do metronome work for free at home. As she gets better at it, you can add digit spans, distractions, etc. to build working memory and her ability to tolerate distractions. To write, your dd needs to hold her thoughts, handle distractions, and motor plan to get them out. So if you do the metronome work while talking, having a radio on or kids banging around, etc. she's motor planning, using her language, holding her thoughts, and handling distractions. Boom, her writing improves, but you were doing metronome work, not writing. :D
My dd did WWS1 in 8th at double pace and WWS2 in 9th. She did fine in freshman comp online and just passed another CLEP test for english lit, meaning she's going straight into upper level classes in college. Didn't hold her back to do it a bit later. If you need somebody to sprinkle pixie dust and say it's ok to look at your kid, not the label on the book, there you go. :)
To make WWS more independent, I went through it with a highlighter, highlighting the salient parts and using color to mark day chunks. So I might highlight through 2-3 "days" of work in blue, then change to pink. That way she knew how much work she was to do in her day. That's how we double-paced it but kept it easy. We skipped things she could do easily.
Main thing is get that typing going, get her able to get her thoughts out easily. If she can't do that, either with TTS or typing, she's gonna be SWAMPED in WWS. Don't do that to her. It's fine to do it later. It's better to have a good experience and have her come out really empowered and confident that she can do it and use her tools and be successful, kwim? We used Inspiration software with it. Inspiration is a normal thing for both dyslexics and ADHD kids (and adults!) to use. You can do HUGE projects with it or teeny tiny. It's working to their VSL strengths. You're gonna LOVE it. So when I highlighted through WWS, I actually wrote in *use Inspiration here* etc.
Yes, my 7th grader types. She mastered that skill around the middle of last year. It's made a big difference. This part makes me laugh:
To write, your dd needs to hold her thoughts, handle distractions, and motor plan to get them out. So if you do the metronome work while talking, having a radio on or kids banging around, etc. she's motor planning, using her language, holding her thoughts, and handling distractions.
That sounds like it's designed to make me rip my hair out. I can see how that would be a helpful skill to master. And I appreciate the pixie dust. I'll take anything I can get. I've resisted highlighting in her book for her, though I've shown her how to do it for herself. She likes to read the instructions really fast so that she can just get the whole thing over with. Of course, then she's missed the critical parts and has to go back and sort it out. She's actually really improved at getting her thoughts onto paper. Now we are really working on mechanics. She doesn't seem to understand where sentences start and end no matter how much we talk about run-on sentences. Punctuation is problematic too, comma placement especially. I think part of it is that she speaks in run-on sentences herself. She doesn't seem to "hear" where one thought ends and the next begins. My younger seems to understand this much more intuitively.
I'll check into Inspiration and metronome work. I've heard of that before but never followed up on it.
Thanks.
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:grouphug:
You do have a lot of teacher intensive material. You need it for Barton, but you might want to look at some of your other choices and think about less teacher intensive things you could do instead. Or, maybe you could get a teen helper a day or two a week to do some science or history with them and free you up a bit. I would also look at some history with an audio or video component to free up some time for you.
WWS is tough even for a regular student at that age. I would only do it once a week this year, maybe Wednesdays. Then, on Wednesdays instead of Barton, I would have them do my new Syllables Spell Success program together, the first 3 are now on YouTube and the last 7 will be released one a week on Tuesday mornings. (There are transcripts of the whole thing, so you can see the complete program in writing now.) My dyslexic students have all been helped by the syllables and nonsense words in the program. They can go through the series the first time with you, then a second time working together on their own, helping each other out. Then, I would figure out something else fun and easy they can do on Wednesdays for reading and spelling for a few weeks and then go through it again. You can keep using different higher level Webster tables if you print the whole Webster for the last 5 lessons. I would track their WPM progress with the nonsense words document in the teacher folder, it is marked as optional.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJLxBWdK_5l2xN78qeGDDB1Lr5lyP6CHO
Thanks! I'll check it out.
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When we started AoPS, it threw my schedule into total disarray. Math suddenly took FOREVER. I had to back off of the idea that we'd always move through a lesson or review section each day. You can choose what needs to change - rate of progress or hours committed to math, but we definitely couldn't fly through it like we had with Singapore. I have a 6th grader and just started, but we're using history odyssey as a spine and adding some other books (I have a fast reader - you could just use HO if you need less reading) and practicing note taking and writing weekly or every-other-weekly reports. Maybe you could combine the history output with what you're trying to do with writing - use it as the topic, for instance. We're just getting going this year, but my reluctant writer seems to appreciate the 'doubling-up' aspect of writing about history.
Yes, I definitely find it impossible to schedule AoPS, so I just don't even try. It was like that with Beast Academy too. We just set a timer and then if she is brain dead before the timer runs out, we stop early. Most days go just fine. We set aside an hour for her math. She usually uses all of it, but sometimes not quite. When the time is up, the book gets closed and we move on.
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Agree with Farrar and Lori D, you have great programs in place that seem to be meeting your kids where they are at. The issue is that they are very teacher oriented and your kids, because of their learning issues, still need a lot of involvement, including a lot of one on one. Science and History are not High School level yet so honestly that is where I would work hard to cut back on needing tons of parent involvement or writing while you work through remediation.
One thing that will factor in is what levels of Barton are your kids in? And how independently can your younger do Beast Academy?
My youngest is in Barton Level 4. She just finished taking the posttest and now we are reviewing lessons where she is struggling. My oldest in zipping through Level 6. Both started Barton at the end of November last year.
My youngest is pretty independent with Beast Academy and I do pretty well with it too, having already been through it once with my oldest. As far as math goes, I think it's a good fit for both of us. Math, aside from being slow with math facts and having to refer to her multiplication table, is a strength of hers. (Counting money, not so much.)
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I would do either WWS or History Odyssey but not both if you are still remediating writing. That seems a lot of writing output for a dysgraphic child.
For the younger I would drop RSO chemistry and do something else for science that doesn't require as much teacher involvement. She is still in elementary and dyslexic, so the focus there is on remediation of core subjects. There is only so much of you to go around. She may need to get her science in a more independent way so you can save your energy for the subjects they really need you for right now.
I know you want to challenge them in their areas of strength but if you focus your time on where they need the most help they will be able to fly later. Content subjects (history, science) usually have to be more relaxed when you are spending a large amount of time on remediation.
Reading and talking about good books, watching documentaries, and going on fun field trips are all things you can do to keep history and science interesting. They can still learn a lot in those subjects without a teacher intensive program that requires a lot of written output in elementary and middle school.
Yes, History Odyssey and WWS is a lot of writing. This was probably a big error in judgment. I felt like we weren't getting to history and I just wanted something that scheduled it out for me. But it's a lot. You are right, it has to go.
I hate to drop chemistry for my youngest though. Doing hands on science stuff is the highlight of her week. (It's not the highlight of mine, that's for sure.) There has to be a way to simplify this, right? Last year we did Mystery Science with their free subscription and she absolutely loved it. It was also super easy for me. Unfortunately, she had such a great time that we went through pretty much all of their material so there wasn't anything left to do with that for this year. I wish they had more content. The format--video/hands on--is really her favorite way to learn and she really retained a lot.
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:grouphug: :grouphug: Hugs! Having had a DS with some mild LDs, I totally understand about needing to spend extra focused time to address the issues, and how that also eats into the day for doing non-core (Reading Writing Math) subjects.
Very roughly, a reasonably amount of time to plan on for concentrated/focused schoolwork (varies depending on student):
- 4th grade = 4-4.5 hours/day
- 7th grade = 5-6 hours/day
No, you're not doing anything wrong at all -- you're absolutely doing the right thing, and doing a great job! You have good materials, and good focus on core subjects and addressing special needs. The reality is that having students with special needs means the schedule has to slow down and you spend more time in one-on-one. And because you have to spend so much more time on the core subjects, you often have to cut back on the content subjects (History, Science, Literature, Fine Arts, "Elective" or personal interest subjects).
You might consider switching to a year-round school schedule, or a longer (say, 42-week rather than 36 week) school year. That could leave you more flexibility to drop some of your materials to just 4x/week (maybe just do the Barton and basic Math? and drop the other things?) and use that block of time that is freed up to do a big once-a-week block of Science and History, or getting out and doing extracurriculars or music or art classes, or field trips, or a co-op with enrichment and social time -- just so you're not only exclusively focused on core academics and doing nothing but hard chugging along?
Another option for taming the length of day is to just set a timer: for example: 30 minutes each for math, Barton Reading/Spelling, and Writing. Stop at the end of the 30-minute time segment, and "loop whatever of the lesson is left to complete the next day and start in to the next new lesson. By extending your school year to 42-weeks, you have more school days to complete your programs. It also reduces the length of summer by 6 weeks so that you have less loss of facts and skills when you start again the following school year.
What about skipping formal Science or History this year (or dropping down to a slower pace -- only do each 2x/week)? Or switching to totally informal Science and History and covering those topics with family read-aloud time and documentaries/movies several evenings a week, which frees up time during the day?
What about dad overseeing something on Saturdays -- like once-a-week Science?
Farrar has some good suggestions about choice of materials to help reduce programs that are heavy on parent participation.
Will you need to sit through the online classes with your 7th grader to be able to help with the homework, or can those be done largely solo? If the latter, that will give you time while your 7th grader is "in class" and doing homework to work 1-on-1 with your 4th grader, which will free you up to help your 7th grader when she is not doing online classes/homework. However, if you ARE going to need to be more involved in the 7th grader's online classes, then I'd suggest streamlining your schooling to just the core subjects while the online classes are running, and then do Science, History, and any other extras during the summer as "summer school".
How long of a school day is reasonable for your family? I can see working 9am-3pm with 1 hour break for lunch for your 4th grader (which includes a few 5-10 minute breaks to mentally shift gears between subjects) and accomplishing your list of materials. So about 4.5 hours of actual work spread out over 6 hours. Example:
9:00-9:50 = Barton Reading and Spelling
(10 min. break)
10:00-10:35 = Beast Academy
(10 min. break)
10:50-11:15 = CAP Fable orally and using speech to text
11:15-12:00 = Audiobooks for literature and history
--lunch--
1:00-1:35 = RSO Chemistry Level 1
(5 min. break)
1:40-2:00 = IEW Fix-It
2:00-2:20 = cursive + math facts
2:20-2:35 = typing
2:35-3:00 = more Audiobooks for literature and history
That gives you two blocks of time to focus 1-on-1 with your 7th grader:
morning: 11:00-12:00
afternoon: 2:20-3:00
However, if you're going to have to sit in on your 7th grader's classes, or if the classes are scheduled during certain times of the day that make it hard to also schedule 1-on-1 with your 7th grader ... :confused1:
BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.
For the first time ever, I actually made good on my threat of continuing some school through the summer. Actually, it was my youngest's dyslexia diagnosis this past November that really cemented that decision. Discontinuing tutoring over the summer seemed like a terrible idea given the way things get forgotten around here without plenty of review. Everyone did math and Barton lessons daily, and read. They put in around 2 hours each. Why doesn't that make me feel better? But you make a good point, I could just do math and Barton lessons on Friday and leave the rest of the day for science/history.
Fortunately, we are getting out of the house for extracurriculars already. My oldest is in a pre-professional ballet program and spends about 8 hours at the studio weekly (slightly more during performance seasons). My little one is taking a dance class, a weekly piano lesson and has recently discovered the joy of Tae Kwan Do. Fortunately, all of these activities occur in the same 2-mile radius (can I hear a hallelujah?) and so the ferrying people around isn't as much as one would expect given the number of things happening. Also, my husband works right there too so he's sharing in the chauffeuring. They are both pretty happy and the exercise is good for their little ADHD souls.
I do not have to do a lot for my seventh grader's online classes. She's been taking the science class for two years already and has the routine worked out pretty well. I do check to see what assignments have been posted (her teacher keeps us guessing sometimes with when things will be assigned and when they are due). She's got a planner this year, and I'm going to attempt to get her into the habit of writing down her science and computer class assignments and due dates herself so she can figure out how to manage her time. We are going to see how this goes. She hasn't been ready for that kind of responsibility in the past and I've had to tell her exactly when and what to do for every little thing or she just forgets. She's going to become best friends with her planner this year I hope. Other than that, I make sure she has the materials she needs for any science projects and just look over her work when she has questions about instructions. And I remind her to turn it in. What's the point in doing the work if you don't turn it in for Pete's sake?
We work from about 8 to 2 most days, though when their school day is up, mine really isn't. I need to find my own rhythm this year for having everything ready to go each morning. I still have to be pretty flexible because I just can't tell how much material we will get through. So yes, definitely setting a timer and we do that for a lot of things. What would really help is if I could teach them to quit interrupting each other's work. Tons of time gets wasted this way. Also, my oldest is a so full of information and she wants to share share share and it seems cruel to cut her off and say let's get on with what we were doing....but seriously, sometimes we just need to get on with it.
I can ask my husband to do science stuff with the kids on Saturdays, but I really hesitate to do so. He WOULD do it. He'd be really good at it. He runs a chemical facility (and is a chemist and chemical engineer) but he works long hours during the week and we try to do fun stuff on the weekends, like play board games, video games, read books, and just be lazy together. My youngest dragged her chemistry set out this weekend and the three of them did all kinds of fun stuff together. I told him I was counting it as science for the week, but really I didn't because I'm kind of glued to the plan I have laid out for myself (stupid, right?). RSO Chemistry is taking a lot of time though. My oldest wants to be involved (even though she did it in third grade) and then they start bickering and today I just put it all away and said enough, we'll try again tomorrow. It's been the same every day that we've worked on it together. Something is going to have to give with that.
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Actually, I'd keep the Pandia Press. It's something she should be able to do largely on her own, with you keeping her on task. The checklists are manageable. I'd just adjust the writing assignments as necessary.
For our family, with our sets of needs, it's the math that would give me pause. AOPS Pre-algebra was a huge flop for us; we ditched it by week 3. WWS1 may be too much of a challenge as well. Give yourself some flexibility there. The 4th grader math also gives me pause; we actually switched to CLE because it had more built in math facts and more built in review.
Overall, I think the challenge is that you are the scarcest resource. Those are all intensive programs. I'd look at sketching out a schedule to see if you can be in the right places at the right time for 1:1 work.
We started AoPS PreAlgebra toward the end of last year and just slowly continued it over the summer. We are about a third of the way through and doing ok there. It takes a fair amount of time, but she likes the challenge and it is something she knows she's good at it. It's almost a self-esteem boost since she knows that writing and spelling are such a struggle. WWS1 is pretty challenging and maybe too challenging. I haven't really found a good fit writing wise. We started last year with IEW Continuation Course A (she completed the student writing intensive the year before). She wasn't enjoying it, and I had WWS already so I just pulled it off the shelf. Three weeks ago when we were beginning the school year, I asked her to choose and she picked WWS. I'm not sure how much we are getting from it, but like I said, I don't really know what to do with her there. I'm definitely open to suggestions. Before IEW and WWS, we were using CAP. We got stuck at Narrative 2 when they started outlining. It was just like, BAM! here's a story, create a two level outline! And then looking at the next in the series Chreia, seemed like an even bigger jump. I hate writing. (I mean, I personally like writing, but I hate "teaching" writing.)
My youngest is also doing well with Beast Academy. She's much more independent than my oldest was with it at the same age. We read the guide together and work through the sample problems. She usually doesn't need much more unless she gets to something super tough or needs me to help read a word problem. My husband seems to have given my children his talents in math. I'd like to find the source of this dyslexia and punch that person in the face. (I've not come to terms with it yet. The diagnosis is still pretty fresh.)
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This is tough... I think you've chosen great programs and it looks like you're giving your girls a really rich homeschool experience that both challenges them and addresses their issues, which is exactly perfect. But I can also see why you're possibly feeling overwhelmed. Absolutely everything you're listing is stuff that requires you to be pretty hands on - like, something like Beast Academy is brilliant, but also can require a parent to be right there to help walk a student through hard problems pretty routinely. RSO has a lot of experiments for you to coordinate. When you couple that with the learning issues and with having a fourth grader (it's my belief that 4th grade is the pinnacle of parent involvement in K-8 homeschooling - they're old enough to have a good amount of work and need challenges but still so young that they're rarely independent on much)... well, it's not too much work for them, but I can see how it may just be too much for you.
If I was going to cut... I think I'd cut the Pandia Press stuff for both kids. You can simplify science for your younger into something that's more like videos or just reading books or perhaps there's a local nature or science class she could take and you could just call it a day for that? For your older, my understanding is that History Odyssey has a good chunk of writing. You're already focused on remediating the writing issues elsewhere. She's a good reader and enjoys reading? She could also read a pile of books and call it history. That's still fine for 7th grade. Alternately, you could drop WWS and focus on writing through history and in context.
That's just my first thought though... someone else may see better ways to simplify.
I agree. I think History Odyssey is going to have to go. She could probably do a fair amount on her own, but once she gets to the writing portion she's going to need me. I can't drop Writing with Skill and just use History Odyssey because I need something to tell me how to teach writing. I was always a natural writer and have no idea how to teach something that seems so intuitive to me. I always feel history gets shortchanged here and I think I am trying to jam it in out of fear more than anything else. I have the Human Odyssey books lying around here. I think I'm going to just hand them to her and let her read. Watch a documentary every now and then and call it good. She has a fantastic memory for that kind of thing. Today she was talking to me about Kepler and Taiko Brahe and I knew who Kepler was, but that was about it. I guess she's picking up more from her Story of Science classes than I'm giving her credit for.
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I have two girls and they are three years apart so they aren't really doing any work together. My oldest (7th grade) is getting more independent, but slowly (ADHD). My youngest (4th grade) is dyslexic and ADHD. My oldest is dysgraphic so spelling, grammar, and writing (not the physical act, but getting thoughts down) are an issue. I am spending a lot of time in remediating spelling, reading and writing issues for both. Outside of their learning issues, they are both excellent students and really need to be challenged in both math and science. Here's what I have this year:
4th Grader:
Barton Reading and Spelling (this is a big chunk)
IEW Fix-It
Slowly working through CAP Fable orally and using speech to text (she loves it)
Audiobooks for literature and history (she loves biographies and other historical non-fiction so, for now, I'm going to call that history because there's just no more time)
RSO Chemistry Level 1
Beast Academy
15 minutes typing (she needs to master this because dysgraphia)
15 minutes math facts (multiplication facts, dyslexia makes this a slow process)
5 minutes cursive (dysgraphia is not our friend)
7th Grader
Barton Reading and Spelling (not as big a chunk as she's an excellent reader and we're just trying to work on spelling, so she's moving pretty quickly)
IEW Fix-It (same level as youngest because this is not a strength)
Writing w/Skill Level 1 (lots of hand-holding here due to her learning disability)
AoPS Prealgebra
History Odyssey Level 2 Middle Ages (just starting this, and I chose middle ages because I was hoping the writing might be more within her grasp)
and I'm outsourcing 2 classes at her request:
GHF Story of Science
GHF Advanced Computer Science Concepts
Am I trying to do too much? I'm trying to cover all the bases, but I feel so danged overwhelmed. I'm feeling terrified as high school creeps closer for my oldest as well. Will it be easier to manage as we settle into the school year and find our rhythm or did I over plan? If I did, what in the world do I cut???
Thanks,
T
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Are the complete books still available for preview on their website? If so, you could give the tests from the final books and see where they land. That might give you a good idea if there is anything to be gained by finishing the series. If they do pretty well, it might not be much benefit to them. (Referring to Apples and Pears)
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Finish AOPS pre-algebra and start Intro to Algebra
GHF: Story of Science Einstein Adds A New Dimension
GHF: Advanced Computer Science Concepts, Simulation and Game Design
Continue WWS1
IEW Fix-It
Finish Barton Reading and Spelling
Lots of good books
Continue with company dance and piano
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DD(almost)9:
Finishing BA3, starting 4
RSO Chemistry, plus other chemistry resources
CAP Fable and IEW SWI A (alternating weeks)
IEW Fix-it
Barton Reading & Spelling
Typing with Burning Cargo
Learn to use Speech to Text with Google Documents
Lots of audiobooks and documentaries
Continue dance, taekwondo and piano
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My daughter 12 doesn't anymore (makes me sad). She reads, draws, crafts, and plays board games. We need to clean her room to reflect this, but she won't admit that she doesn't use all that stuff.
My DD9 still plays with all kinds of things.
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Post it flags, HP Instant Ink so I always have plenty of ink in the printer, yoga ball, (would love to have a trampoline), whiteboards of all sizes and really love the extra fine tip expo markers, YouTube, iPad
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Wow! You ladies have really come through for me! I'm so excited. Some of these we've read and really enjoyed and some I've read with my oldest but not my youngest and forgot about. Lots of new titles for me to check out for sure. Off to look for books from the list!
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Hi everyone! I need ideas. I have two girls, ages 9 and 12 and we are going to be in the car a long long time. They both love fantasy. Animal books are great too. It would help if the book were funny (because that would help keep the driver, me, awake) but anything high interest and not too slowly paced...so not Moby Dick. ;)
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My daughter is taking the third of the Story of Science classes this coming fall (having already taken the first two). The teacher is great. She's had some family health issues and had to miss a couple of classes, but she made them up later. She has said that she will have an assistant this coming year who can step in if something comes up so this might not be an issue at all. Her lectures are engaging and the kids have opportunities to respond to her questions or ask questions of their own throughout. She also keeps office hours so kids can can chat with her outside of lectures if they have lots of questions or if they are just really excited about something. She assigns reading from the text, occasional short videos and some really fun hands on stuff. Some kids participate more than others and turn in more work (my daughter likes to do it all) but you aren't penalized if you opt out of an assignment (because you can't easily get supplies or whatever). It's a lot of fun and my daughter has really enjoyed it so far. She likes the instructor so much that she has signed up to take a computer science course from her this fall as well. Happy to answer any other questions you might have.
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I really like having the print book (in fact, I own two, don't ask). You can access short videos for most of the lessons on their website without having to own a copy of the online book. Are these the same videos you mention? I don't know anything about the forum, so I can't help you there. I'm usually an e-book lover, but when it comes to math texts, I really need to be able to easily flip around.
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Just one thing I want to say here though! This also applies to those of us that make the decision not to medicate, for our own reasons. We are not selfish people, inconsiderate of our kids' needs, as we are sometimes made out to be. We just make different choices, based on our own situation and child, and our own family's needs. Sadly, that is not always considered by some on this board!
I have two children with ADHD. One is medicated and one isn't. Where does that leave me? Am I good mom or selfish and inconsiderate?
😂
I'm guessing most of us are doing the very best we can to make informed responsible decisions. That makes us all good moms no matter where we fall in the medicate/don't medicate camps. I don't know who these "some" are, but who needs them?
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:hurray: :party:
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Are you seeing the pediatrician because you need a referral? He/she isn't really the one to see when it comes to learning difficulties except when they set themselves up as experts on ADHD (which even then is suspect in my opinion) since learning disabilities aren't really a medical issue.
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That's it! Thank you!!!
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Isn't there a website that has lots of ideas for card games etc to practice math facts and such? My daughter and I have been playing multiplication war and she likes it, but I need some variety. My adult self can only play war so many times... My childhood self would play it endlessly. (I'm being punished, aren't I?) I'm not looking for app recommendations as I have several of these already. This child spends too much time already staring at her tablet. I want something we can play together.
Thanks!
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No advice, but hugs. Selective mutism makes it really hard to get the other stuff sorted out. Best of luck to you.
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Feeling overwhelmed this year. What am I doing wrong?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Oh man, we play a lot of board games! Ticket to Ride, Dominion, Takenoko, Splendor... Right now we are playing through Pandemic Season 1. It's sooo much fun. My oldest played with us for hours over the weekend. We are finally getting my littlest interested in some of the simpler games. Please please please let this be an excuse for me to buy more games!
I've read Dyslexic Advantage, and thank you and (OneStep) for the recommendation. Both of my daughters have amazing strengths. Still, as their mom, I would spare them every difficulty. I know that's not realistic but it is what it is.
Thanks,
T