zarabellesmom
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Posts posted by zarabellesmom
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Enough said. 😊
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For all the math drama at my home, English essay drama is lots worse.
Let's not go there... It's bad here too.
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I'm looking for math for Goldilocks. She had finished through BA 5B and started on AoPS Pre-Algebra. We got through Chapter 3. She was doing pretty well (answers correctly) but she has very low frustration tolerance and it's just painful to watch her work through it. She is either pleased when she gets things correct or furious and in tears when they are wrong. I've explained until I'm blue in the face that this is not a math book where she is expected took answer every problem correctly and on the first try, but...We took a break When BA 5C came out and now it's time to move back into pre-Algebra again. I should mention that having math be too easy makes her frustrated as well. "I ALREADY know this!!!"
So, I read somewhere that the first few chapters of the Pre Algebra book are the hardest. Is that true? Should we push on a little longer and see if she feels better about it? Or...I also have Jousting Armadillos on the shelf, but the last time we looked at it, she kind of turned her nose up at it and said it was too easy. Ugh. I need something not too hard, not too soft. I need one that is just right! And Jousting Armadillos doesn't cover geometry in their series do they? I would need to do something else for that. Ugh.
Ideas for what to do for a Goldilocks student who needs a rigorous math education as she is likely headed for a career in the sciences or engineering?
Thanks.
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I'd say walking/swimming is easier... And if you are in a hurry, purchase a couple of plane tickets because it's cheaper.
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I guess my question would be, why did you leave Singapore? We used Math in Focus 1st to 3rd with my oldest (but seriously accelerated) and then switched to Beast Academy as soon as the first book came out because she needed a bigger challenge. If your son is finding the first part of a Beast chapter is too easy then maybe move onto the harder problems as soon as he has demonstrated mastery? We never tried to accomplish a certain number of problems in Beast, just set the timer and worked and then put it away or if it was too frustrating we put it away and brought it back out the next day to look at with a fresh mind.
My daughter is kind of like Goldilocks with Math. She's unhappy if it's too easy. Unhappy if it's too hard, but Beast Academy was just right. Unfortunately, they didn't release quickly enough and we had to pass time with other things. We weren't able to go back to Math in Focus because it was not challenging AT ALL after BA. I think Math in Focus is a great curriculum, but from what i can tell, it's not far off of regular Singapore and if you already have that, I wouldn't think buying MiF would be money well spent.
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:grouphug:
It sounds like it is going well, some more ideas for days you are not up to a full lesson or want to do some reinforcement with games and videos:
http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html
When she is a bit older, you can use my phonics videos for reinforcement, probably too long and boring for now. If she wants to try, split any over 15 minutes in half, watching half each day.
http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonicslsnslinks.html
Thanks, I'll check these out!
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Mosdos? My daughter really enjoyed their reading selections.
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I've bought a couple of units before and always end up returning them. My daughters need more scaffolding. They have a great return policy. 😬
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Thanks! I'll check it out!
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Looking at the scores you posted, I think it is probably the working memory, combined with processing speed, that is causing the glitches with spelling. I haven't used Barton, so I don't know if it a good choice for someone with good phonological skills but low working memory. It might be overkill?? You don't want to frustrate her.
Have you looked at Sequential Spelling? It uses spelling patterns, which might help.
Based on what the NP told us about DS, it is the processing speed that messes with getting thoughts onto paper. With high verbal scores but low processing, you may have a nonverbal learning disorder profile going on. If you haven't read anything about that, it might be helpful for you to do so.
For DS12's dysgraphia, it helps to use a graphic organizer to plan his thoughts. To be frank, he usually needs assistance getting ideas into the form, so it's not like he can be handed an organizer and have it solve all the problems. But once he gets the ideas on there, he can then turn them into sentences and group his sentences into paragraphs. He's been doing well with that approach this year, but he still gets loads of help from me at home and his intervention teacher at school. With the support, though, he can complete assignments. He is actually pretty good at creative writing and has some fun ideas about sentences to include in his papers. But trying to get information into a paragraph really takes a lot of work for him, and I suspect it always will.
Also, his IEP says that he is to be allowed to tell what he knows without having to write it down. So far we haven't used this accommodation much, because most of his writing is for his language arts class, and the purpose of the assignment is to work on writing skills. But when he gets to having essay questions on tests in school, being able to give the information orally might be good.
We also scribe for him sometimes for homework and put a note in the margin that we are writing down his answers.
I definitely think you are onto something there. I think that's probably what the Learning Disorder NOS is representing.
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OneStep, thank you for sharing your daughter's experience, it was very encouraging. I'm having some insomnia (going on a couple of weeks here) and I'm getting less coherent as time passes but I did want to get back here and let everyone know that I appreciate your replies. So Z's spelling history includes our AAS fail, followed by Sequential Spelling (which was a hard slog because I'm sure some of you can guess how long it takes someone with dysgraphia to write 25 or so words). That was right around the time of our evaluations, so I didn't really understand why it took so long and just persisted which ended in serious frustration for us both. We continued with Sequential Spelling (ugh) and actually saw some progress but when her younger sister started doing Apples and Pears she expressed interest and it seemed silly to tell her no so we switched to that. Again, lots of writing but we only did a page a day at first and it was pretty much the only writing she did. Everything else was oral (including math, fun fun fun). Anway, in the two years since we started Apples and Pears and completed it, her writing stamina has improved and her spelling has improved too.
I think I need reminding sometimes that I tend to be a perfectionist and that she really has come a long way in her spelling and expecting her to be a spelling bee champion isn't really in the cards. :lol: In any case, I do have Barton and I think if I just shorten the lessons every day (as someone suggested I think) that I won't feel like I'm investing so much time in something that might not pay off in the long run. Since she doesn't mind doing it (because we sit on the sofa with the cat which she loves to snuggle) and use the iPad tile app, she doesn't mind it at all and since this is the case, we should just continue on for now and see what happens. Anyone with a crystal ball? I did purchase the Spelling Success games for level four. They arrived today and I need to look at them and figure out the rules. She loves playing games so I'm sure they will see a lot of use. And maybe if Barton becomes an area where we butt heads, I'll reevaluate and see if the effort is worth the payoff. I do think she's getting a lot out of seeing the red underlined words in the word processor and having it help her make corrections like you suggested Elizabeth. She's also pretty logical and really likes to understand the whys of things. I think if the spelling rules make sense to her, it will be less about memorization and she's great at knowing through understanding. Also, she's better at memorization when she sees the value in it. The years she spent learning her multiplication facts were agony. Of course, we were trying to use Reflex Math and that's timed so poor processing speed was not her friend. I really wish I had thought that through more. Ugh. If I only knew then what I know now...and there's still so much to learn. Now that she's got them down cold, she's really grateful because factoring and LCM and GCF are a breeze. Honestly, I think her working memory has improved a fair amount since the time of her evaluations because she now seems to keep track of a lot more than me and beats me to answers on math problems (she thinks this is fun now, so no I'm not trying to torture her) probably 30% of the time. Either her working memory has improved, the ADHD meds are really helping, or my brain is rotting. I think it is a combination of the three.
She seems to care about spelling because she get's really frustrated when a word doesn't follow the patterns that she thinks it should. She frequently asks me why something is spelled a certain way (as opposed to what she was expecting). Unfortunately, I've only made it through the beginning of Barton level 4 myself so I don't have all of the answers to that yet. I'm going to be a spelling wizard if I survive through...level 10 is it?
I guess I'm going to try bed again and see if sleep comes. If not, I'm going to pop those Barton videos in and I will either learn something or be fast asleep in minutes.
Thanks all.
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Barton does something with balloons/pigs. It was really witty, but mercifully was one of those things we did for a while and didn't need anymore. Maybe google for it?
Currently using this with my eight year old and it's super helpful. She's right handed which is nice because with the left hand you make a thumbs up sign with your fingers facing towards you. That's the letter b. It's like a balloon, the stick goes up like balloons do. It's helpful for distinguishing between b and p (but that's irrelevant here). So then you have a one handed gesture to check your b and d against while you write with your other hand. When you get to a b/d you make your gesture and see if it's balloons or not. If it's not, then it's the d.
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You can't get credit your work if you don't write your name on your paper.
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None.
I don't make a thing about independent work. If my 13 year old needs me to be there to get through in a timely way, I'm there. I don't want the day to run over, for me or for him, so I do what I have to to make sure it doesn't.
We probably run 50/50 on independence so far. I have zero issues with scaffolding him 50% of the time to move through work efficiently. I'd imagine the ratio will change over time.
I don't give 'homework' or anything like that. If I wanted school to spill over into non-school time, I'd have my kid at a b&m school.
It's harder with little kids around...one thing I wish I had done with my eldest, when my ds was small, was to scaffold her more! She didn't really need it....she was one of those kids who does independent work conscientiously...but emotionally, even 11 year olds need a teacher or a parent to be involved and engaged with their learning. Probably more than I realised at the time.
I wish I could like this more than once.
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How funny, I just visited your blog yesterday! Great stuff.
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Yes, she has been evaluated. She is definitely not dyslexic. She was an early reader and reads accurately, quickly and at an advanced level. In third grade, at the time of her evaluation, her testing results showed (all in percentiles):
Phonemic Awareness (WJ) 99.5%
Reading Vocabulary (99%)
Passage Comprehension (92%)
Word Recognition w/Automaticity: 95%
Reading Speed (noncomplex material): 87%
Phonetic Decoding in reading: (82%)
That's all great, but she had quite a few weaknesses resulting in:
Written Expression Disorder (spelling and written language mechanics)
Learning Disorder NOS with weaknesses in working memory, processing speed, cognitive fluency and cognitive efficiency
And of course, ADHD
She used to have trouble with the physical act of writing, but that's ok now (I mean the handwriting isn't beautiful but it is legible and fast enough and she rarely reverses anything anymore). What remains is a difficulty getting thoughts (complete with correctly spelled words which I mostly consider a bonus, but I don't think will stand her well in the future) on paper. You can read what she writes though many (10% maybe) of the words are incorrectly spelled. She sometimes has trouble getting autocorrect to understand her--the other day faucet was so wrong that autocorrect gave up and I wouldn't say that happens frequently, but it does happen occasionally. If I had to evaluate spelling level, I'd call it third grade-ish. But that might be harsh because she has an amazing vocabulary so she's using words that are tricky to spell a lot of times. But she still misspells some words that most third graders would have mastered ("with" or "says" for instance).
She's just started level 4 of Barton and we started just after Thanksgiving. So far she's not really struggling, but up until now she's only been dealing with closed syllables so I know she's going to start having to work harder for it soon. She's not great at memorizing facts (like spelling rules or math facts) so that will be slow progress. Before we knew she was dysgraphic, we tried to use AAS. It was a nightmare. Tears and arguments and no progress. She's older now and she has a very good attitude towards Barton so that really isn't an issue. I guess I was just wondering if it was possible to get enough out of it that it was worth the time we are spending on it or if it's too late to really accomplish what needs accomplishing. I have it, so the only thing lost is time. Of course, if she improves with it, then it's not lost time.
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I'm no expert, like really not an expert, and I'm sure some of the other more experienced ladies will chime in too, but I would be concerned.
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My oldest is 11.5 and has completed through level D in Apples and Pears. It helped a lot but her spelling still isn't great. Honestly, she is dysgraphic, so it never will be great, right? As some of you might know, my youngest was just recently evaluated and found to be dyslexic so we are working our way through Barton. I've been doing it (separately) with my oldest as well, but if you've used Barton, and I know a lot of you have, it takes a huge chunk of time. I'm wondering if my time might be better spent just teaching DD11 to use technology for spelling which will leave more time for us to really focus on her writing? At what point do you think spelling is what it is and just move on?
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That's a good sign, when she's begging to start school! :D
Yup, love the Barton app. Sounds like you're doing great! And, fwiw, she's the type of student who would do well in a dyslexia school if there is one. It might give you some options later, if you want a change. My ds doesn't fit in one, sigh, because of his other issues. But your dd would be a good candidate. :)
Our closest dyslexia school is too far away to be an option and the tuition puts it out of our range even if we lived closer. They do have some summer camp programs that look interesting though.
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I'm so excited. I ordered the Spelling Success games for level 4. The heavy duty, non-glare page protectors and the ultra fine dry erase markers should both arrive Tuesday. We will be Bartoning up a storm. Watch out dyslexia, here we come. 😂
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Yeah the training videos are sooooo boring. I have to watch in short bursts, while drinking coffee, right after exercising, so my brain stays focused. :laugh: (They are helpful, though, not saying they aren't). For what its worth, once you get really comfortable with Barton you may not even need to watch the videos anymore. The TM is so well laid out that eventually you will probably only need that. Just skim the lesson ahead of time, including the summary at the beginning of each lesson, and you should be fine. I only feel the need to watch the videos on very rare occasion anymore.
One thing I am going to try to incorporate, that I really wasn't before, are the tutor training pages. Now that DD is in higher levels I realize I would do better tutoring her if I have already had a bit of practice from the learning end myself, specifically using those pages.
The tile app has been great here, too. Love, love, love the tile app. Soooo much simpler set up and clean up and improves functionality during the lesson. I will say that at times we still pull out the specialty tiles. Not the main alphabet really, just other stuff like units or prefixes and suffixes (primarily introduced in Level 5). Sometimes DD needs the tactile experience still. I got something similar to this (see below) and put the TM on the stand, with the specialty tiles in the drawer below for easy storage. (actually DD already had it and wasn't using it so I retasked the thing :) ).
Also, have you seen the Spelling Success games designed by a Barton tutor? I have found those are really helpful for reinforcement and for days when none of us are up to a full lesson or when we need to take an extended break from lessons but don't want to lose what we already have.
https://www.spellingsuccess.com/products
The other thing that has really helped are the support pages on the Barton site for tutors to give to their students. I print out all of the extra practice pages and the spelling tests as soon as we get a new level. Makes it easier to just grab them as needed. I set up a chart to track which extra practice pages and spelling tests have been used so later on if I think we need review I can pull out ones that haven't been used yet (or haven't been used as often).
One thing that also helped here was taking the sight word lists and putting them in a separate notebook. DD has moved through the sight word lists very quickly compared to her brother so it has made it logistically much easier to have those lists and their checklists in a separate notebook.
All pages for the entire program (except copies of the checklists) go into non-glare, easy load, heavy duty protective sleeves so the pages can be used over and over with multiple students or with the same student if they need to review. The non-glare is critical or it causes too much eye strain. Heavy duty works better so they hold up over time. I usually use these if I can get them on sale:
We started out using the fat size of dry erase marker for the writing on the pages in the protective sleeves but switched to the fine point markers linked below. Now, though, as the kids have improved in their writing, DD prefers the next set down in size, which is the ultra fine linked below the fine tip version (very precise writing which makes it easier to do things like box off prefixes and suffixes, etc.). Having colored markers helped both kids, for several reasons.
Sorry this is so long. I started typing the response right after you posted but just kept coming back to add bits and pieces as I have had a moment. I will go ahead and send before this becomes a tome of epic proportions. Best wishes. :)
Wow! This is really helpful. I'm going to look at all of this over the weekend when I have a little more time. Thank you for taking the time to reply!
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I think it's normal to go through grieving. For me, with my ds, I've had new levels of grief and had to go through it afresh, each time we got more diagnoses. So I think it's ok to be patient with yourself and honest and go scream at planes or pray or sing or whatever helps you work through that. It can be unexpectedly intense.
On the merciful side, it's going to be ok. She sounds like she's happy and dealing with it. I'll bet Barton works for you. Are you bringing in tech? You're overwhelmed because of the newness of Barton methodology or something else?
I do find Barton overwhelming in some ways. Those training videos are incredibly helpful, but I sure need a lot of caffeine when I'm watching them. We are only in level three and I've learned some things about our language that I never knew before. And those tiles. So many tiles to mess with. We switched to the Barton tile app and having everything laid out and the words already made has saved me tons of time and frustration.
She's nagging me to start school so I guess I better go.
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On a side note, where are you in Barton? I would like to mention that rushing through Barton so a child can "catch up" is usually very ineffective and can cause a ton of problems so whatever you do, please go at the pace of your child. If that means spending weeks on one lesson, or repeating an entire level, so be it. Trust me when I say that rushing only nets sorrow.
We are in level three. The first two levels zipped by. As we near the end of level three she is starting to slow down and we are repeating lessons. I'm running through Barton with my oldest daughter who is dysgraphic (since I already have it for youngest) and she is a couple lessons into level four. Level four is going to be a real challenge for A when she gets there. I expect we will be camped there for awhile. That's OK. We've got nothing but time.
On the cheerful side, we joined Reading Ally and she's been listening to so many audiobooks. I already read aloud a lot, but now she listens as she falls asleep and spends thirty minutes or so during the school day reading along with the narrator. She's started the Who Was...? biography series and is now filling me in on all kinds of historical people, which is great because history is the subject that gets the very least attention around here.
And yes, it is most definitely a grieving process. And every time I think I'm doing OK, it rears its ugly head again. She, however, is very cheerful about it. She thinks it's great to have a brain that works differently (it is) and we all enjoy her little quirks that we now realize are part of her dyslexia. I never really noticed how often she failed to hear words correctly. Yesterday she was very excited to tell me that there is a city called Hamsterdam. :) I explained three times that it was Amsterdam, emphasizing the A and she kept replying, "That's what I said, 'HAMSTERdam.'" We were all laughing by the time it was finished. She's a cheerful little thing. My head knows she is going to be just fine, but my heart still hurts.
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We completed evaluations with an educational psychologist in November. She is indeed dyslexic, also very bright and ADHD (which I expected). Now that i know she is dyslexic, looking back it was all so obvious. Denial is truly a miraculous thing. I'm feeling really overwhelmed right now. We've started Barton and I'm hoping we will see some success.
I'm having a really hard time emotionally. I know that probably sounds way overdramatic, but I feel totally overwhelmed and just really really sad.
I'm so grateful to everyone here for the great advice that sent us in the right direction.
Teresa
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Nevermind. Question answered.
in Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges
Posted
Nevermind. Found it.