4kids4me
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Posts posted by 4kids4me
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My dd14 plays rep hockey...she's on the ice 3-4 days each week. A couple of weeks ago the team received an email from one of the moms saying that her dd, B, had lice. B isn't very well liked but my dd is kind to her, so as result B always sits beside her. It turns out B has had lice for a while, so it was a pretty bad case. So bad, in fact, that she wasn't allowed in school for the past week (and schools around here are too lax, imo). Since B was coming to hockey, I assumed that she'd gotten her situation sorted out. It turns out (I keep saying turns out b/c my dd and she text one another and this is how I find out stuff!) that this weekend the professional pickers took out 30 bugs. Meanwhile B still came to hockey and didn't even have her hair tied back (she usually wears it down).
So I'm feeling a little (lot) ticked. Yes the girls aren't necessarily rubbing their heads today, but jerseys are hung near one another, helmets get put beside on another on the bench, and it doesn't take more than a swing of loose hair for a bug to go flying out (trust me on this, my dd had a severe case and before I found out they would fall into her book while she was reading!!!!! OH GROSS!!!).
I'm not sure how to approach this situation. I really feel like something needs to be said, that the parent is not taking due diligence. If B isn't allowed in school, and you're still finding hoards of live bugs, why is she allowed to come to the dressing room? I'm not sure how to word it without it sounding really witchy, because in all honesty, when my kids had it, they weren't allowed to play with other kids until I was SURE that they were clean.
As a sitenote: I have four kids. Not looking forward to having a lice-fest here when I know it *could* be prevented in this case.
Help?
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We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback mix and his name is Harley.
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Be there for her when things settle down after a bit. Take her to the movies, take her out to dinner, go for a spa day, something like that.
Great idea about waiting until things settle down. She must feel completely turned upside down right now. :(
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Thanks for the suggestions! :)
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I'd love to do something special for this friend. I've known her for over 20 years, but have only really started "getting to know" her in the past few months, just before her cancer diagnosis.
She had cancer when she was 14. When she found out her dad passed away. Recently her mom has dementia and was going downhill. Then my friend found out the cancer is back, 22 years later. Today she was to find out which kind (she HAD ovarian cancer, but now it's in the colon but it could still be ovarian cancer in the colon), and her mom passed away this morning.
Another mutual friend and i want to do something special for our friend...her church is taking care of meals for her. What could we do as friends that goes beyond bringing a meal that will show her love?
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I thought of you the other day. I was walking into Target and this child ran in front of me. He was babbling and flapping and almost ran me over. I had to stop to keep from colliding with him. His mom followed him (I stopped for her also). I don't know if the child was Aspie or Autistic, but his behavior indicated that, at the very least, there was some SID. And his mom didn't seem to think there was a need for manners.
My daughter is a mild aspie with SID. But she does not run people over. She talks too much, and interrupts often, but she doesn't get away with it. She just hasn't mastered the self-control on that one.
I'm going to talk to the Director today...hopefully I won't put my foot in my mouth. :001_smile:
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I'm unclear about the purpose of the observation period. I think the approach depends on your goal.
Was it to see if your son was behaving? If he didn't behave, I'd address it with him and ask the teacher if the session was typical, and *maybe* offer some suggestions that might work for him. (Ex: "I've noticed that he responds to intervention well if it happens the moment he starts being silly.") If he behaved within reasonable child-appropriate limits, then I'd let it go.
Was it to observe the other child? If he didn't behave himself and it affected your child directly, then you might ask them about some kind of support for the other child and ideas to help your child avoid those kinds of interactions. Otherwise, you should let it go.
I would not offer any suggestions about the behavior of the other children, general discipline, or the structure of the Sunday school unless a) you're asked and/or b) you are willing to volunteer.
IMO, the situation should have been addressed immediately (and kindly) with the director. And it wasn't, and that's ok. We all have different ways of approaching things, especially when they're new and we're not quite sure what to do. :) But since you're asking, I think I'd just go to the director now and say you'd asked to observe because your child is having a hard time in Sunday school with a special needs child, and you're wondering what kind of plans there might be in place to help with the situation. Something like this: Compliment (something you saw that's working well)---here's the particular problem I'd like to address (only your son's situation, not the general Sunday school structure)---how can we resolve this---end with something positive and thanks for listening.
You may find that the topic of the general program structure comes up naturally in the conversation, but based on one observation on an unusual day, I wouldn't offer any constructive criticism or suggestions unless directly asked. Stick to the specific issue of concern to you.
:)
Cat
Thanks for your help. The purpose of my visit was to see how my son interacted with this particular boy and two others, as I was told there were four altogether that tend to misbehave. I actually didn't see him interacting with any of them. The director told me the format was a typical Sunday. What I did notice between three other boys, and another group, was that the silly/disobedient behaviour wasn't being addressed at the outset, which makes me think this is what is happening with the four kids. I did observe the group sit for a solid 45 minutes. Much of that time my son and the other boys his age and younger were not engaged. When they went into small groups, my son was not engaged at all, so I noticed him not listening and twirling around on his bottom. Normally I would scold him for that...but in light of the way the set- up was, and that the way the lesson was presented wasn't overly engaging for the boys, I felt that his distraction was within normal for a 6yo boy. So unless I tell her a) they're not nipping disruptive behaviour in the bud and b) they're not engaging the younger boys especially, then I'm not sure how to help my son with the other boy. Or I could continue to go to his class until I see how the boys all specifically interact with one another. Which I'm more than willing to do.
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My oldest is on the autistic spectrum too. While I have met many AS kids and some of them might have tried this, the solution is the adults. It was their responsibility to stop him as soon as it happened. If he is messing up other children's work, they should move him a seat away, with an adult in between. There is no excuse for allowing any child to harm another, including his work, his work, his clothes, his person or anything else. The first impulse might have been unforeseen and hard to stop, but there is no reason for it to have been allowed to continue.
I agree. I counted 16 marks...that's quite a lot. It also makes me wonder why ds didn't move away. He said, "There were chairs everywhere! There was no where to go!" Who knows.
That week they had left the gym to go to a separate classroom where they were colouring at a table. The idea of them sitting at a table is GREAT (better than a mat), but they need better supervision.
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bumping to get a response...hopefully!!!! :)
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Update:
I was able to observe yesterday. I'm not sure I got a true sense of what's going on as two things were different: the little boy kept to himself and didn't interact with my son and they had a guest speaker.
However...
Other than the first 15 minutes where they could play (they're in a gym), there was a LOT of sitting. They got together in a group and stood to sing one song. I could see a lack of supervision in that three boys started to fool around and none of the 10 leaders said anything to break it up before it escalated. That, to me, is a lack of supervision. Then they sat for prayer, sat for the sspeaker, sat for the video, and sat for the group talk. They then broke up into age groups...and sat more. Each group was on one mat and the leader of the group read a story (with no pictures) and asked questions. This did not engage the more energetic little boys. Each group did one "interesting" thing which was I think (I was too far away to hear) put a verse in order (they had pieces of paper with words on it). Then it was time to go home.
So as far as my son's "disobedience" (meaning not obeying our rule to sit and listen respectfully)...well, I can see how it would be terribly hard for him to do that when there's so much sitting and so little engagement (as a whole, and a lack of recognizing they're losing their audience and attempting to re-engage). It could have been something as little as saying, "Every time you hear Daniel's name, stand up and sit down quickly and quietly."
There are five groups. Three groups have kids old enough that the lesson was engaging. What I think they should do is put those three groups in one gym and the two younger groups in the other gym. Then they can do a similar lesson with the younger kids, but do it so they can move around.
Or they need to set up tables and chairs. Sitting/lying on one mat was too hard for the boys in the SK group and the gr. 1 group. The girls were fine.
Finally, the leaders aren't overly pro-active in ensuring the kids are sitting listening. It seems that they're not noticing the first signs of boredom and only deal with problems after they've escalated.
I'm not sure how to tell the woman that runs the program that these are my observations. Not sure if I should go again and see if the dynamics are different. Maybe they sat so long because of the special speaker. Maybe they really do have more movement in the lessons. She hasn't asked my opinion but on the other hand I do need to ensure that things like kids getting marker all over them isn't happening. So I'm not sure how to deal with it without sounding like a nag.
Edited to add updated email convo:
I decided to respond to an earlier email to the director, thanking her for welcoming me into the class yesterday. I didn't say anything else, hoping that maybe she'd bite and ask for my observations. Her response is a hearty you're welcome followed by letting her know if there are instructions they should be giving my child during lesson time.
So that didn't help. lol Any advice on how to proceed with the dialogue would be appreciated. :) (I can be too blunt and harsh and am working on being diplomatic and grace-filled!!!)
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Thanks so much, Ann! ;)
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I'll keep you ladies posted on what happens...I'll resurrect the thread after church on Sunday. I'm going in with open eyes, knowing full well my son could be as much as an issue as the other child! Hopefully I can be part of the solution, not the problem. As with lots of ministries, most likely they don't have enough volunteers to keep up with the demand. I know the volunteers want to serve and love each child and their family, but sometimes it's too much.
The church is so new to me I hardly know anyone, so talking with the boys parents probably wouldn't be wise. I think I need to observe at least one Sunday and see what's going on.
You've all be so helpful...really! I've learned lots and feel better prepared for Sunday!
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Personally, I'd want to stay the whole time with the boys next Sunday, to get a sense of how things are. Then, I'd open a brainstorming dialog with the powers-that-be. How can you be welcoming to this child and his family without putting other kids in a situation that is not good for them? The idea of having an aide specifically to shadow the special needs kid is a sensible one; it will be helpful to that boy, the other kids, and the teacher. It may not be the ultimate solution, but it's a somewhat tried-and-true approach that would probably be what I'd advocate for initially. Observing the class will also help you get to know the boy, so you can give more targeted suggestions to your son as to how to handle the situation.
I would NOT just pop in now and again - it would be worth it to me to get the whole picture up-front, even if it meant missing the service that week, so I could be more fully informed both when brainstorming solutions and when helping my own child learn how to handle things.
LOL, you must have posted this as I was typing my response. ITA with you!
Our church does advertise that they have a special program for kids with special needs - - a one-on-one shadow, helping them integrate. Seems to me this is missing. I mentioned below that the kids had two weeks of learning about kids with autism/asperger's. What seems to maybe be missing is the other side of it...what they expect kids without that to "take."
Being coloured on isn't acceptable. So I'll definitely be observing next Sunday!
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Do the kids all have their classes in the gym? If so, I can see how that could overstimulate some kids with the resulting poor behavior.
I've been a young religious ed. teacher (volunteer), a kindergarten teacher (employed) , and the mom of two kids on the autism spectrum (including one with Asperger syndrome). And I would also be upset by what's going on in your son's class. I think you're right to go to someone who is a paid employee of the church...to me, this isn't a situation that volunteer teachers and teen helpers should have to deal with alone.
Clarkacademy, Slipper, and Laurie,
Thanks so much! I can completely see that the environment is overstimulating...yes, everyone is in the gym and it's a LARGE group.
I was talking to my 9yo who's the in same class and she says at times the teachers do nothing to restrain the little boy. For instance, when everyone is sitting in a large group being taught, the little boy is allowed to run around. Dd says it's not fair to the whole group because it's very disruptive. She's actually had a bit of a hard time adjusting to the looser boundaries the teachers allow at this church.
Otoh, my nature is a "doer, a jumper!" I tend to jump on stuff without getting the whole story. *I* need to learn grace! I talked to dh about it (he's more of a disciplinarian than me) and he said it's not that big of a deal. So I'll take that into account and NOT make a big deal of it BUT be more proactive. I need to stay for a whole class (bad mama, I know) and observe how the kids are and how the teachers and helpers react to it. I really want to be gracious to the little boy and his parents as I've not walked their road...but of course be fair to all kids in the class.
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You and your son have every right to expect that. I would never expect that my son with Aspergers had the right to get away with bad behavior just because he has special needs. IMHO, if that child is having that difficult of a time being around other children, the church needs to step in and help the parents make a better decision. The teacher may truly have no idea how to handle it. I would let the teacher know that my child's experience is being very colored by this behavior which could in fact be considered bullying to a certain degree. One child should not be afraid of another child. Is there another class your son could join?
Before my son got the AS diagnosis, the only Aspie we had ever met was a child who knocked kids down and pummeled them with his hands. The mom said the boy was just trying to play. Um.. no. Needless to say, when my son was diagnosed, I totally objected because my impression of Aspergers was a child who had violent tendencies. I've never met another Aspie who acted like that, thank goodness!
Thanks for the response. I think what I'll do is just be a little more on top of it. I can check in on them during the service to see how the boys are interacting and see if there is proper supervision. There isn't any other class he can move to. All the kids are in the gym area and then they're broken up by grade (I think!). I could double check on that. Going forward I'll be dialoguing more with the children's pastor to see exactly what their take is on it. The other SS adult teacher I was talking to seemed to use Asperger's as a reason for his behaviour, so I'm not sure if their belief system is that nothing can be done. Thanks!!!
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For those that have shared their experiences, this is incredibly helpful and you've answered my questions. This is how my friend would have reacted to her son who's got Asperger's. Just trying to figure out if it's a parenting issue...and obviously the staff weren't in control.
The funny thing is, they've had two Sundays where they focused on autism and asperger's, explaining it to the children, etc...and the kids came home with handouts and we were encouraged to go over the handouts with them. It was basically an awareness class. I'm not sure how many kids in the class have autism and/or asperger's. (It's a large group of kids gr. 1-5.)
My two younger kids have said how "bad" the kids are in general. Let me preface that by saying we came from a VERY small church with a VERY large teacher to student ratio. Plus we had firm expectations for our children's behaviour in church. Coming to a HUGE group that's in a gym lends itself naturally to a much more varied parenting style and a different way of handling the children, some who have special needs.
Having said that, if they know there are children with special needs and they're not staffing accordingly but are putting expectations on the children themselves to manage it, that's not ok.
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I would consider it normal from them but....I would not consider a teacher using it as an exuse for the behavior or allowing it. I would also ask my 6 year old why the heck did he sit for that and again I would question the teacher, where were you for this to happen? I have a kid with high functioning autism and another with ADHD and tourettes so I have seen ALOT of things in my parent life, and I think it is kind of a blame all situation.
The special needs child should have been monitored more closely, the six year old who had it done to him should have yelled out or moved away told the teacher or something and giving exuses for a bad action is a road you don't want to go down. I have actually met autistic kids while I was teaching who would say I can do such and such because I am autistic.
Son said he told the teen helper (the helper had been aware that the other child had ruined son's colouring twice that day). When I spoke to the teacher she said she had been told the boy wrote on someone but assumed it was a little marker on the hand, not on the front and back of his shirt. I hadn't realized this boy had Asperger's before yesterday and I had been encouraging my son to be a good friend, be patient, etc. It's not like him to make a scene. (My other son, otoh, would have completely retaliated!!!)
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I'm trying to tread lightly because I really don't want to offend...
My friend's son (16yo) has Asperger's. I've known them for about 6 years and have watched her parent. IMO she's done an excellent job parenting all her children. With her 16yo, she's definitely set boundaries and limitations and has taught him what is and is not acceptable. I understand ALL our children are works in progress!
I'm newer in this church so I don't recognize who this little boy or his parents. I recall once, two months ago, my ds telling me, "That's ___," after the service. The parents were engaged in a conversation and the boy was all over the place. This can happen to anyone, though!!!
My son has complained about this boy from the beginning (5 months we've been there). The boy has stepped on his hand (ok, it could be an accident), ruined his colouring (for instance, twice yesterday he drew on son's picture, and he was given new ones, then he was drawn on), etc, etc. For all this time I've encouraged son to tell the boy to do the right thing, to not sit beside him, to ask the teacher for help. I figured it was regular kid stuff...maybe the parent was just one that had loose boundaries.
Finally I spoke to the teacher yesterday and the response was just, "He has Asperger's. I guess we need an adult helper with him instead of a teen helper."
So as we move forward I want to be gracious and loving. I want my son to understand why this boy seems different than other kids and how to extend kindness. I'm hoping by having an adult in the class it'll be a help.
(and here's where I'm treading lightly)
But...
I also need to ensure that my child has a positive experience in church, too. It seems every week he's belly-aching before going into church complaining about this boy and all the things he's doing to my son. So without actually having seen the boy's behaviour myself, I'm trying to figure out if he's acting out because he's got Asperger's or if it's a combination of that and loose parenting boundaries. So I care about not hurting this boy and/or his parents, but I also care about my son.
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Let me rephrase:
Would it surprise you if a 6yo boy with Aperger's drew all over another boy?
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My 6yo son came out of church yesterday with marker all over the front and back of his shirt and on his pants. When I talked to the teacher she said the other boy had Apperger's. I'm just wondering if that's normal for a child with Asperger's. We know one boy with Asperger's and I can't see him doing that.
I'll rephrase the question (but leave my original thoughts in there as posters have responded to it): Would it surprise you if a 6yo boy with Asperger's drew with marker all over another child?
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Without telling my ds anything about the photos I asked him which pic he liked better. He said he liked the shorter hair. I asked him who the haircut reminded him of and he said Justin! He also said he liked your son's Lego creation and he's now going to make a similar one. :)
I love the new cut! It makes him look a little older. It was a good choice!
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Trying one more time, since it's evening. :)
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Wondering if anyone else has ideas, before this post gets buried. :)
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Some suggestions that don't require anything but for people to assume a different attitude: Ask people who normally hang around after church to chat, to hang around, but assume the "hat" of host or hostess, so that they may still chat with their friends, but like a hostess at a party, would be aware of who might not know the others and act as a link. So if I'm a designated hostess, I know I'm there not just to talk with my friends, but to help everyone at the "party" to connect.
People tend to sit in the same place every week, so have someone who is the designated host for their section. If there is a welcome/greet one another time each Sunday, they will notice who is new, or who is missing, etc. It's their job to know the names and to be able to contact someone missing, etc.
Do you have children's Sunday school? Having gatherings for parents with kids a certain age is a good way for parents with kids to meet others they may connect with. For instance, it could be a breakfast before class one week. We usually end up friends with people who have kids our kids' ages.
Having a clear road to joining a small group, (life group, Bible study group--whatever you call them) is helpful to new people.
Choose an inexpensive restaurant nearby and issue an invitation to "eat at ____'s after church this Sunday." This can work well with a larger congregation. People come to the restaurant, and again, you have hosts, who meet and greet and connect. This doesn't require any more time or organization or money than to designate some hosts/hostesses. While it's nice to get an invitation to a home, that can be limiting--you've just met one family and if it's that family's ministry, then their social plate is likely full, so it may be a way to feel welcome, but not be a way to meet a person who will be your friend. The larger group meet at a local restaurant can give people a chance to eat with another family at the same table and to circulate and meet others.
Great suggestions! Thanks so much, Laurie!
How should I handle this lice situation?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Thanks! The coach does know about the lice because the mom sent a team-wide email out 9 days ago. I'm not sure how to word it that I think it's the coach's responsibility to handle it.
DD knows how lice is transferred as we had a severe case here a few years ago (41 hours of picking on her alone!). The other problem is B doesn't sit with anyone else...ever. It's not that they're good friends, they're not...but I guess she's most comfortable with my dd. Sigh.