Thanks for sharing your experience! What math background did they have before they started?

I was thinking of doing them concurrently in gr. 10 so she could do human body in gr. 11 and marine biology in gr. 12. Since she hasn't done logarithms, I guess she need to do biology in gr. 10, then chemistry after that. Maybe chem and marine bio in gr. 11 and human body in 12, then.

Oh, ok, this is interesting. Is Algebra 1 having been completed enough to start chemistry? What are your thoughts of doing them concurrently?

Dd doesn't really want to do chemistry, but for Apologia it is a prerequisite for Human Body. Can chemistry be either done first or concurrently with biology? She has Algebra 1 (Teaching Textbooks) and will be doing Algebra 2 next year.

Thanks so much for all the support and wise words. Dh still hasn't talked to the husband as (I mentioned) he was "too busy" to come to the door and hasn't returned the visit. I appreciate you all! :grouphug:

Interesting you say this. Earlier this week dd made pictures for both girls and wrote their strengths on them. For D she wrote things like: D is artistic, creative, interesting, etc. The olive branch has been extended many times and reciprocated none. I regret none of my actions as I have been kind, patient and generous with the family. D has been in my home dozens and dozens of times. I've fed her, I've helped her when she's hurt, I've hosted sleepovers, I've had neighborhood children's parties. Dd has been in D'a home less than half a dozen times and is glad to not be asked because the mom yells at her children infront of dd and she feels neither safe nor comfortable. The mom is insecure and is creating for her child what she fears - a replication of her own childhood experience. Since I'm the only mom home in the neighbourhood she's asked me to talk to the girls if they need help. I've bent over backwards for the kids and I regret nothing because I've done the right thing. Though I'm deeply grieved by the situation, I think I'll stay on my "high horse" if that means i'm prideful. **** right I'm on my high horse. My dd, her guest, and P do not deserve to be the recipient of an adult's rage. No one...NO ONE...will abuse my child in such a way and get an apology from me.

Ok, that makes me feel better. I really didn't like the thought of asking to be removed as a reference and redacting what I originally said. I don't want to be vindictive, but her judgement is really skewed.

Thanks for this. Just today I was cycling with a friend and crying about it. I can't see how to rationalize with the mom but it horrifies me that the daughter is going to be hurt because of her parents' parenting. The whole situation makes me sad, and if it were any other neighbour there would be a way to talk to them about it. Not this one. :(

{sigh} I have tried to be kind in my life, giving other people the benefit of the doubt, and when I get upset, it can, at times, be dramatically so. To cut the girl and her mom out of anything that happens on the street does make me sad. Of course, she raged at the kids, and that was absolutely unacceptable. For me to call her recruitment officer (if I can even get through to them) seems just as manipulative and cruel. At the same time, I don't think she uses good judgement at all. :( I just don't want it to be tit for tat (ok, THAT's a figure of speech here in Canada...maybe it's not everywhere!).

Sometimes I wish the board were set up like FaceBook so I could LIKE all of your posts to at least acknowledge that I've read them all and have taken everything into consideration! Thanks. :)

Oh what a nasty thing that mom did to you! A few days before dd and I had talked about not calling on D but if she came out to play to include her. She had decided she didn't want to continue fighting and it wasn't worth calling on her. So if P was available to play or if P played with her she would. If P and D were playing she'd just leave them alone. Yesterday P and T were together sitting on the curb and D came out and started playing basketball in her driveway. She then turned around and snipped, "What? Aren't you two going to say hi?" They must have said hi because they were together a few minutes later when I came out and called dd to go pick up her friend. She had only been with P for 10 min so the three were together less than that. When I came home with dd and houseguest they went out to play. T said they passed D and her mom and T did ask if D would like to join them (I'm not sure why she chose to do that. Perhaps it had to do with that previous conversation). They both ignored her and went inside. Then P came out to play again. A few minutes later D called P and T over to her home and then her mom came out and ripped into them, asking T why she gets all the friends on the street and why wasn't she calling on D. T said she didn't want to answer why she wasn't calling on D because she didn't want to be mean and then she was accused of keeping secrets. (Apparently she said all of us in our family keep secrets. Not sure what that means.) Blah, blah, blah. So our kids have been told not to go down to their home, not to pass it, not to look at it, not to provoke in any way. They're not to talk to the parents at all but walk away. T won't be playing with D. My younger son can play with D's twin if he comes out but he's not to call on him or play at their property. Same with my older son. Dh went to speak to the father today, and D went to get him, but came back and with a smirk said, "He's busy and can't come to the door." Dh asked her to have her father come over when he wasn't busy. He didn't bother to.

Um, I didn't say that I told the two girl to walk away, actually. After a few months of talking to all of them, allowing them all an opportunity to speak their mind, etc, it was apparent that D wasn't allowing T to walk away when she needed to. She would continue to chatter at her and escalate the situation, in which case dd was to walk away. Case in point... D took a week break from dd (fair enough!). The day she decides to come back to play dd was playing tag with the boys on the street. D calls on P and then tells T she wants her to stop playing tag and play with them. T says no, she's playing tag. D continues to say that T should play with them. T tries to walk away and continue the game she's playing. D grabs T to stop her and tells her she hasn't played with her in a week and wants to play with her. At this point I happened to be racing out of the house to get somewhere quickly. I see all three girls are fighting. I stop my van and call dd over. What's wrong? She quickly explains she was playing tag and wants to continue but D keeps grabbing her (something she's continually characterized by and has been asked to stop) and telling her she wants to play. I tell T that you've told her no, walk away and continue playing with the boys. D comes over to the van and says, "But I haven't played with T for a week and I want to play with her now." I tell D that T has already told her that she wants to play tag and to let her go. This is a very typical problem. If D wanted to play with T so badly, you know what? She could have played tag. In talking to P's mom this week we both have noticed that D tries to control both girls, wants her own way in choosing what they're playing, and snips at them with comments when she doesn't get her own way like, "Did you wake up grumpy today?" or "My teacher would say you're bullying me." Bottom line, she's the bully. Do the other two add to the situation? Yup. But you know what, they're not doormats and bravo to them for sticking up for themselves. This is not a surprise, though. The same thing has happened with her older dd and my older dd. Her dd bullied a child on the street and it got back to her and we talked about what happened. Her dd came up with a fabricated story of what happened that completely didn't match what my dd and the bullied kid's story was. Apparently my kid was the liar. She only had the friendship to lose and gained nothing but heartbreak by telling the truth. Nope...one can't talk rationally to someone irrational.

Still loving and appreciating the replies...for the most part you're all unanimous. Not one person has said to turn the other cheek...let it slide...tomorrow's a new day.

Absolutely!!!! :iagree:

Thanks. Yes dd was hurt and both girls were horrified. But honestly, all three girls DID do wrong in the situation, it's just that D has taken it to another level, and D's mom, well....a whole level above that! So my dd isn't sweet as pie innocent victim within the three of them. But did she deserve a tongue-lashing without me present to speak up for her? No!!!!

She had her dd call the two girls over (and my dd's visiting guest came, too). They were on her property. DD told me she didn't want to leave and get in more trouble from D's mom, so I believe that this adult used her authority over the girls to keep them there, even if she didn't utter the words. In addition, since my daughter came home with a red, splotchy face, which happens after a few minutes of intense crying, I am upset that D's mom continued to rage while my dd was obviously upset. I also had to call my dd's guest's mom to inform her of her scare and apologize that she went through that.

Remudamom and 425LisaMarie....yes, it took a lot of self-control to hold me back. Maybe God sent a legion of angels to do just that cause I was gonna do some damage over there!!!! I'd put a swearing trucker to shame. I talked to P's mom this morning...the girls are going to leave D alone. DH went and asked to speak to D's dad but D said (with a smirk), "He's busy right now." DH asked him to come talk to him when he wasn't so busy. If I were a gambling woman, I'd say he won't be showing up here anytime soon. I appreciate EVERYONE!!!!!! :grouphug:

LOL, I always learn new words and phrases from you, kalanamak! :) Thanks!

Oh it was all I could do from going over there and letting the expletives fly...believe me!!! I was so hopping mad I should have gone for a run or something to release the adrenalin!!! In the end I'm glad I didn't. I actually talked to P's mom a few days before this explaining that I've told T to walk away from the other two when there's a fight as she cannot handle it and that in no way does it reflect how T feels about P. P can choose what she wants to do. I felt this was a fair way of handling it. I was then told that D's mom told her if there's a fight to "take the non-fighter and walk away from the one that's fighting with her." lol, sheesh!

I didn't know it was a Canadian phrase either! So yes, when I say LITERALLY tore a strip off her, it's actually not literal is it? ;) And yes, if dd's friend was scared and has never been yelled at like that before, I'd say it was above a tongue-lashing one would give their child.

Thanks for all the replies, helpful advice and opinions. It's lovely to hear from you all! (I especially liked the cultural education I received - - "rip" someone is not something I've heard!) Dh isn't going to speak to the mom - - we both know that you cannot talk rationally to an irrational person. He was going to speak to the dad to make it clear that this incident cannot happen again without police getting involved. I can take a lot, but I'm not putting up with that. I agree I should have only counseled my own dd. I knew it would not end well a long time ago when my eldest and D's eldest sister's relationship ended badly in a similar way. Having said that, D and her twin brother play with my two youngest and all 9 kids on the street (from four families) play with one another, so my intent (at D's mom's request) was to help the girls get along, much like siblings. I knew, deep down, that D's mom would not have my back when nothing was resolved. Do I regret it? No. I was kind, I did the right thing, I tried to encourage dd to turn the other cheek and work it out as best as possible. I was patient. Doing the right then, even knowing it would end up in my face, was still the right thing. I can walk away from this knowing I really did try my best. Does it tick me off? Of course!!!! LOL This really changes the dynamic on the street. Or perhaps I should say it cements what was going to happen anyway. It's sad. It happens. But I can't bury my head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen. Thanks to all. I really appreciate you guys!

Oh, maybe it's a cultural thing! In Canada it's a saying, meaning someone ranted/raged on you. To me it's emotional abuse, especially when my dd's guest said, "I was so scared. I've never been yelled at like that in my whole life." To scare children, and to continue to rage while one is upset to the point that they're bawling and their face has gone all splotchy from crying (obvious distress), to me, is akin to abuse. Do I call the police? At this point I think not. We all have had that *one crazy neighbour* either growing up or now in adulthood. If it happens again, they will be called. Thing is, she wants to be a "special constable" (a step down from a police officer...they haul prisoners to and from the court to jail)...and if I call the police it could get back to recruitment. I'm livid, and could fight fire with fire, but I want to be above that and react in a way that shows that I'm not retaliating at her level.

I get it. This whole situation is so stupid!!!! Why can't parents take responsibility and train their children without putting so much of their own insecurities on to them? My dd is held responsible when she's doing wrong. She's been reprimanded...deal with it and move on. So sad for D. How her mom has handled this isn't going to help her in life. :(

Thank Ladies. Yup, I did say hours. The thing of it is, with most of my friends I could say, "Listen, my kid is being a twerp, so is yours. Let's deal with it." Then in the privacy within our homes it'd be dealt with and they'd go on their merry way. But this mom is...I'm not sure...maybe she's unstable. I think that raging to other people's children is an unstable thing to do. In any regard, children learn what they live, and if D is manipulative and controlling, and her mom dominates conversations, well, I think that that's what she's living with. Ok, here's the problem I foresee happening with a break up. It leaves P in the middle of it. This week my dd and P have been together a couple of times (as have D and P!), and it was yesterday's visit with one another that set D's mom off, "You think, T, you can have all the friends to yourself?" (She said this after my dd asked, in front of her mom, if D wanted to play and both D and her mom went inside and ignored my dd.) ARGHHHH!!!!!!!

There are three 9yo girls that play together on the street. My child (T), P, and D. All three are strong-willed extroverts. D's mom is...unique. If you ask her how she is, be prepared for an hour for her to tell you. She monopolizes the conversation like nothing I've encountered. We have a few mutual friends and this is what she's known for, so much so that people tend to avoid talking to her. Her problems, to her, are worse than anyone else's. I'm the only at-home mom on the street. For months the three girls have been bickering with each other, and with D's mom's knowledge, the girls choose on their own to come to me to work it out. I've spent hours listening to them and I encourage each to work on something that will contribute to peace. I've treated them equally and fairly. I believe, because I've listened to all three for so long, I have a pretty good grasp of what's been going on. For the most part, D is controlling and wants the other two to do what they want. T reacts and a fight can escalate. P tries to be a peacemaker and makes the situation worse by taking sides and playing the other two. T tries to walk away but D is characterized by either walking behind her and continuing to chirp at her or physically stopping her (standing in front or grabbing her). D, like her mom, does not let things drop and continues to push and push. But D's mom now doesn't see it that way. Her dd is being "bullied" and picked on by the other two. This week I talked to P's mom, explaining that I've instructed my dd to just walk away when a fight starts as she's not handling it well. I've told her to walk away because she cannot reason with D. In talking to P's mom I've explained that my dd is not mad at P but because it's not fair to "take P with her", she'll just walk away on her own and P can decide what to do. Well last night D's mom had D call both girls over (and my dd's friend from church came) and literally tore a strip off both girls. My dd was bawling, so much so that her face was all splotchy. D is truly a manipulative girl (there's more to the story, but it'll get too long!), and we've already experienced this with her older sister and my eldest dd (not an extrovert and not a fighter). T's friend said, "I was SO scared. I've never been yelled at that hard in my life, even when I cut my friend's hair when I was 5." Bottom line, this mom cornered the girls and used her authority to be excessively cruel. Never have I spoken to ANY child on the street this way!!!! To have my dd bawling and she's continuing to yell and go on and on...I am LIVID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What I wanted to do was go over and f-bomb her out. I didn't. Dh will most likely be talking to them today. For now our kids are not to be calling on their kids, though dh has said to younger son, who plays with d's twin, that if they're on the street they can play. This really affects how dd will be approaching D now and it has only fanned the flames, imo. I feel badly that the mom can't see what her daughter is doing and is allowing her to manipulate her. In the end, it just leads to broken friendships. I'm also sad that really, this is a mom that CANNOT be reasoned with. :( How would you react if someone had been cruel to your child? I get that this kind of thing happens. It just seems to be quite over the top and I'm shocked.