Denise in Florida
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Posts posted by Denise in Florida
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I am sorry for your bad situation. Many years ago I used bad theology to help a friend justify staying with an abuser who really wanted to kill her. IMO the only reason he did not kill her was that her brothers would have killed him. In my defense I did not know how bad the domestic violence was, but I have never gotten over feeling badly that I was not more helpful. She stayed with him for much longer than she should have. She has issues from dealing with it that may never go away. I REALLY miss my friend that was, but I am part of the reason my friend is not the same.
The real issue to ME, personally, is that anything that steals a persons spirit and changes them is wrong to do to them. Bullying steals a person's spirit and can take a huge toll on the rest of people's lives, as we saw on the other thread. Patriarchy also steals part of someone's spirit and ruins lives, both men's and women's. Domestic violence/ verbal abuse is spirit destroying as well as racial bigotry. All those things make my blood pressure go through the roof.
Not the same situation but I have done the bolded as well. I have grown a lot since then, both in my faith (better theology) and I hope as a friend.
I have also learned to trust people's perceptions of what they are going through. Yes, there are liars and fakes but in my personal experiences (not global obviously) they are by far the minority.
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You can't find both deplorable?
I think she does.
I'm not her but I think she is saying that we need to keep an atmosphere where women (and men) can come forward and say they were raped and ask for justice. While the false accusations are deplorable they are not a reason to force victims back into silence. Again those are my words not hers.
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It also is part of the problem. We are discussing whether she deserved what she got in a way similar to the way people used to decide if a woman was raped based on what she was wearing.
She thought she looked hot
She was belligerent
She used the F word
Her family isn't part of the religious part of the organization
She had an attitude
Okay I have 'liked' and commented on three of your posts in a row. You might be my new best friend. :seeya:
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Or they can attend the many "Don't.get raped" lectures and substitute accused every time they hear raped. The same rules apply. Don't be alone with a girl, don't be provocative, don't drink, have a buddy, and so on. Overall take responsibility for not getting falsely accused the same way young women are told to take responsibility for not getting raped. Fair.....nope. But ironic.....yes.
:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: Yep...nope not fair...about there has been little about the 'don't get raped' attitude that has been fair to date.
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For me the focus wasn't on the Dads at the dance at all. If anything in my experience it is even more likely that Mrs. D put the focus on the Dads to give herself more authority, which is often found in a patriarch system as well. Complete guessing on my part but she probably had a problem with Clare, either from that night or previously and didn't have the ovaries to take responsibility, so instead she went to the real authority in her mind, the men, for opinions or didn't and just used them as an excuse. Either way telling Clare that the fathers had a problem got the whole thing rolling and put the target on their backs. It also led to Clare and her friends in hindsight thinking about the men judging them sexually. In my experience when a young girl is being provocative most men are embarrassed, nervous, and try to get the heck out of the situation. Not escalate it by calling attention to the fact.
Yes, Mrs D brought the 'dad's opinions' into the discussion.
This would then get Clare and friends in an uproar over being judged.
My first thought was that Mrs D either has limited experience with teen girls in groups or she is accustomed to the behavior of a small subset of teen girls (possibly at her church). I of course do not know Mrs D. so this is supposition.
Pretty much the entire way she handled it would have had my dd raring for a fight. My dd does obey rules that are presented clearly and explained, (she's a great kid and I like her the way she is ) but at that age a subjective judgement of 'provocative dancing' would have received a 'whatever'. :001_rolleyes: This would then get authoritative adults in an uproar and escalate from there. :banghead: Really, are they familiar with teens at all.
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One of the cats does seem like she has lost some weight recently. Warm weather is in full swing, and I saw a couple on her. I am wondering now if she might have a tapeworm.
She might, some cats seem to get infected easier than others. The pills are not expensive and you do not have to go the the vet.
After years of being around stables we learned that there are some animals you just have to hit with a wormer on a regular schedule.
Get two pills and do the 'give a pill wait x weeks give second pill' routine.
I have had many cats in my life but only this one have ever had this problem twice. huh? It's a good thing she is a sweetheart. :001_smile:
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De-fur the cat? :lol:
It'd make bath time a breeze...you'd spot any ticks pretty quick if he was bald, lol.
yes but cats do not pre-"furr" it.
ha ha - sorry I haven't had my coffee yet and I could not resist
:svengo:
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That made me laugh. I don't know why the old classic fairy tales just aren't popular anymore. People don't seem to remember the old nursery rhymes either. :mellow:
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Indeed, I can. I taught myself 5 or 6 years ago, and it turned (eventually) into a side income, then more than a side income, then husband quit his day job and now it's our sole source of income (although it's no longer sewing, exactly - now we make fabric labels for other people who sew :) ). I'm teaching DD now. She yells at the machine the same way I used to, it's heartwarming. We have a Singer 201-2 that I picked up on craigslist for $45 from the original owner, great condition. Her receipt was still in the box - she bought it in the 50s for $200something. Those machines were serious investments back then! And they're still the best machines you can buy, the old Singers (imo).
That's fantastic! Does your whole family work together at it? I have seen people with fancy labels but never really thought about where they might get them.
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Yes, I sew and teach sewing to 4-Hers.
My college graduate son has made things like a bow tie, a fleece jacket and ditty bags. Among his first purchases in college was a used student Singer sewing machine from a thrift shop. He used it to mend clothes. The machine was useful in the suite where he lived so he left it behind for future students.
Yay! for 4Hers and the adults that teach them. :hurray:
younger dd did the fashion competition and went to State twice, it really really helped her develop her personal style
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Yes, I can sew. I don't do anything terribly complicated, but I've made things like curtains and pillows for various apartments. I used to make all of my kids' Halloween costumes and special outfits for holidays, as well as things like pajamas. I made doll clothes and toys, too.
My daughter can sew, but doesn't do so very often. She does crochet quite a bit. (She just finished making herself a new beret in Gryffindor colors and is getting ready to start on a matching scarf.)
My son sews about as well as I do. He has his own sewing machine and took over making costumes for Halloween and conventions a few years ago.
I have found being able to do at least some basic sewing to be a really valuable life skill.
What conventions do they do? My daughter and I do the local one and she has gone to Orlando and Phoenix for comic conventions.
I love to see the costumes the attendees wear. wow... some of them are works of art
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Our cats are only outdoor and don't come inside. I am just worried about them. Should I treat them any differently if they are strictly outside?
The Advantage drops are good for outside and inside. You may have to treat more often if they live outside.
You might also get some type of spray to treat the area where they sleep. I don't use sprays so I am not familiar with what is out there.
Quick warning: do not use the Hartz stuff it can be harmful to cats
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Yeah- I think it would be loads of fun to plan a homeschool prom at the same venue/same time as the Furry Convention in my city. Most places have several events going on at the same time- people only ever cross paths in the lobby. Would make for some VERY intersting photos. :lol:
A couple of years ago I went to a comic convention with my daughter. There were many cosplayers there including some furrys. The comic con was on the third floor of a convention center.
At the same time there was a church convention going on (I did not catch the denomination) on the second floor of the convention center. Because the first two floors are connected by escalators with an escalator or elevator from there, the cosplayers ended up walking through the same hallways as the church crowd all day long.
Everyone co-existed nicely.
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I posted the articles previously. If you google her name, you will see how her sister, or her, who ever was writing that blog, makes references to the 45 yr old dads lusting after her and such.
In her initial post, she claims when they were kicked out, they behaved politely. But later, she told the media that she and her group actually cussed at the people working there and that she personally flipped a staff member off. She did all that while still there, while claiming originally, she did not do that while there.
She did mention that she and her friends behaved badly as they were leaving in the original post. So there is no contradictory information there.
I did try to google, the stories are mostly the same and I only found the same side view with finger tips photo and the photo in the car. Where did you find other pictures?
I am willing to believe she is telling her view point on the evening. I am willing to believe that she felt everyone was staring, most people and certainly teens, feel everyone is looking at them, especially if she was already self conscious after the encounter with Mrs. D.
She specifically mentioned in the original post that she was told the dad's were complaining. Yes, she might be over dramatic but I doubt she pulling things out of thin air.
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I have 5 cats and live in Florida (yikes fleas). I buy Advantage for large dogs and use a vial and dosage syringe to divide it between the five of them. Do not use Advantix for dogs, it has an ingredient that is harmful to cats. You can find the dosage chart for dog flea meds converted to cats by cat weight online. It is MUCH cheaper that way.
It works well for all but one cat . One cat just insists on getting fleas matter what I do. Like that kid that always gets eaten up by mosquitos. :glare:
I usually hit her with extra drops on a more frequent basis.
Warning: if you cats have fleas and consumes the fleas by chewing and licking at them the cat can get tapeworm. You can get cheap tapeworm pills for cats at Feed Stores like Tractor Supply. Yes, special girl gets tapeworms too. sigh
The fleas in my part of Florida are resistant to Frontline, it is a waste of money here.
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Here is a more relevant question: would you be okay with a naked man teaching your 10 year old?
If not, why are bare breasts okay and not bare other parts? Why the arbitrary age limit?
If so, would you be okay with a man wearing a "sluts deserve rape" shirt teaching your 10 year old?
If not, why is nudity as self-expression okay and not aggressive/negative speech? Why the arbitrary limit on one kind of self-expression and not the other, when in both cases the self-expression seems likely to offend many members of our current society? (hint: you can't just say: "because one is hate speech and I don't like hate speech!" - other people don't like nudity, that's the point)
Good topics.
1 - because I believe many rules are different for adults than for children. Adult child wants to be nude in place it is not illegal ... fine with me. Adult male or female shows up nude in front of other adults (again somewhere it is not illegal) also fine by me. Adult nudity in front of children (outside of certain families who are all nudists) - nope.
2 - The hypothetical 'sluts' t-shirt? America has freedom of speech but not freedom from the consequences of that speech. If I saw a man wearing that I would choose not to hire him, purchase from him or associate with him. The last might not bother him but the first two might. Again, short of advocating violence he is free to 'say' what he wants but he is not free from how society responds.
"sluts deserve rape" is nearly advocating violence (fine line) but is still an opinion. "rape the sluts" is advocating violence.
Does that make sense?
ETA: if a man or woman walked down the street naked it probably violates a law and they can be arrested. If a man or woman walks around a 'clothing optional' beach, it is not violating a law and if I am offended I need to find another beach.
ETA2 - there is something in there I want to say about authority figures and power differential, but for some reason my "express myself clearly without visual hand gestures and vocal tones" is malfunctioning . sorry (I use my hands a lot when I talk :o so I try to be very precise when typing) Perhaps someone else can flesh it out.
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Yes. But my question asked about the here and now.
In fact, I've already made it clear that hypothetically this or that SHOULD be true. But in reality it's not.
So, again: We're talking current reality, not theoretical. :)
Would you be OK with your 15 year old daughter walking out of the house topless? Just heading off to school...
(Assuming we lived in one of the states where this is currently legal, of course, like Oregon or New York)
At 15 no I would not be ok. At 18 or up, maybe...I'm not sure. hmmm ...depends on the place and situation.
I am in fact speaking from quasi-experience. One of my girls attended a school that was known for its optional nudity. :glare: Yes, we knew this before sending her there. The students there held "topless equality" days during the spring. I never asked if she participated or not, she was old enough to choose for herself.
I would occasionally see the notices from the school administration that on such and such a day there would be prospies (prospective students) on campus and to please wearing clothing. :lol:
ETA: This college also encourages the students to wear costumes to graduation (no cap and gown). The only rule is that you must wear 'something'.
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Rivka, you hit the nail on the head! The obsession with sex elevates it to a level of supremacy at any event for people who subscribe to this worldview. Like you, I have chosen not to be a part of that mindset and the people I generally encounter are healthy in their attitudes towards sex and we don't have issues.
But, there are many ultra conservative homeschool groups and churches in the area and it's really sad how they make sex the over riding, obsessive issue for every, single, event. They force the focus on it and make it a big, huge hairy deal when the kids wouldn't even be having a problem if it weren't for the freaky adults around them that see problems where none exist.
But, it's a small community so despite not running with that crowd, I can't help but end up once in a while dealing with them since we are 4-H leaders. Yikes! 95 degrees outside at the county fair and their daughters are working with big, huge steers in ankle length denim skirts and long sleeve shirts while the mothers complain that of course their daughters have to dress like that in the heat or the boys will be leering and then running off to masturbate in a dark corner. The program director and I just want to throttle them. Of course, the boys are busy hosing off their beasts, mucking out - one of the least sexy things you can do as a teen - feeding them, keeping track of their market books, and practicing showmanship with the animal in hopes of making grand champion or reserve. Ever wrestle with your very large meat turkey? You aren't scoping out the chicks in that ve be. I mean it is seriously mental. We've had to kick a few of these families out of 4-H because they are so offensive to the other girls.
sorry, that turn of phrase made me spit my coffee. :leaving:
maybe I've spent too much time on this thread.
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This seems like very odd advice.
Certainly men are sometimes accused, by women, of "things" - sometimes things they have done and sometimes things they have not done. And the justice system is far from perfect, for men or for women.
But is it common in your social circles for this to happen, or is it a few stories in the news that have been widely publicized but that are hardly typical? Do these things happen often in everyday life, or is it because they are fairly unusual that they make the news?
And what is the college connection? There has been some discussion lately in the news about how colleges handle reports of assault, as well as how the military handles them, and whether they accurately report the corresponding statistics.
But I haven't seen anything arguing that the rates of innocent college men being falsely accused of "things" are so high that young men should actually avoid college enrollment.
Wise choices in obtaining a college education can seriously enhance a young man's ability to provide for his family over his lifetime. Choosing not to attend college should be done thoughtfully, not from possibly ill-informed or overblown fear. Not every college campus is a hotbed of partying leading to he said/she said morning after scenarios, and even at those that are it is possible to attend classes without the accompanying extra-curricular mayhem.
I hope, EowynR, if you are reading opinions that "men should avoid college because women will accuse them of things and they won't get a fair hearing", you will do so with a critical eye. If you have not experienced college yourself, you may wish to talk to some of the responsible young people you know who have, to see if their experience is on par with the atmosphere the things you've read have described. While everyone should take reasonable precautions to minimize risks of many kinds, in some cases avoiding one kind of risk leaves you vulnerable to another. In this case, the difference between the risk of being the victim of false allegations as a college man, compared to the risk of being the victim of false allegations as a man who is not attending college, is insignificant, and there are also risks in deciding to avoid obtaining a college degree. There are many good paths that do not involve college, of course, but fear of false accusations is not a good reason to choose that direction.
Very well said
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My husband works his ass off too so that we can homeschool. He is an awesome husband and father. And yet he still manages to understand that he is responsible for his own boners. I mean, I do try to take an interest of course, but ultimately he is responsible. And he manages to be good with that even while working at a university where he must interact with beautiful and even sometimes, gasp, sexy young coeds.
I already "liked" it, but I feel this post needs special acknowledgement. :wub:
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Where's the proof that the Dads were responsible for this at all? A woman may or may not have said something to that effect, but was it true? No male person ever was heard speaking in any of the stories, right?
All I can think about is how hard my husband sacrifices for our ability to homeschool, how tired he is all the time after a long day at work and his subsequent attention to his family. His life, basically, sucks. And now it seems like "homeschooling Dad" is synonymous with pervert and patriarch?
Now *my* blood is boiling, because I really don't like this at all.
I'm starting to read more and more about how men should avoid college because women will accuse them of things and they won't get a fair hearing. I'm so sick of it all.
That is a bit of a stretch.
It's great that you have a supportive husband, I do too and it is wonderful to know I had the ability to teach my girls. :)
But homeschool dads are really not that much different than non-homeschool dads. I have met nice supportive ones and creepy ones of both kinds.
You don't say your kids ages, or at least I didn't see it, so I don't know how much you have dealt with teen girls (maybe you have, I dont know). I have stated before that I have had run-ins with unreasonable adults, I have also had run-ins with overly dramatic teens. sigh...this girls story rings true to me. I will give the dads the benefit of the doubt since the whole thing could have been Mrs. D's opinion not theirs.
On a side note...of the many many reasons to either go to college or avoid college fear of false accusations of rape isn't even on the list.
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Fresh sudoku books :)
Iced coffee from the Kenyan Coffee booth at the Farmer's Market
A breeze through the door carrying a whiff of the jasmine outside (but not the jasmine up close - way too strong - yikes)
a purring cat
phones with my girls
relearning to knit
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Maybe, just maybe, you aren't considering the possibility that this was out of concern for the, unfortunately, hot and sexy teenage girl. Maybe they were trying to protect her from the inevitable rape that she was risking because of said boners. Maybe we should not jump to judgement until we have heard the boners' side of the story.
what? seriously? no no no just no
You protect young women by telling young men that they are responsible for controlling their own behavior and that rape is wrong.
If they were certain that they were 'rescuing' this young lady they should have formed a tag team to take her home. Somehow, kicking her out into the night is Okay?
ETA: Sorry Sadie my sarcasm detector must be failing. I apologize for the hasty reaction.
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Someone wearing a short dress is NOT NOT NOT NOT why rape happens. This is incredibly offensive.
Not enough LIKES on the ENTIRE planet for how much I like this post.
Why this modesty and patriarchy stuff *really* matters
in The Chat Board
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I have learned so much from these wise ladies here over years. :iagree: