Barbara H
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Posts posted by Barbara H
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Good to follow your instincts. I'd say we not only have no regrets - but a great deal of appreciation - for the early gentle years. Time and freedom are the greatest gifts of homeschooling so take advantage of them.
The one thing I'd add is that for some kids the lure of screens speaks more loudly than all of the good stuff (outdoor play, imaginative play, cooking, reading). So, I say gentle, but with little (or no) emphasis or availability of electronics.
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This is true in Georgia for the Hope Scholarship. Homeschoolers did lobby to enable their kids to get the Hope Scholarship. I don't know exactly how it works, but, yes, you can get the Hope Scholarship in GA if you are home educated. Bev in B'ville, who I haven't seen around here for a while, knows a lot about this in Georgia.
Yes, for sure systems can be developed and it can be done. Many states have figured out ways to allow homeschoolers to be in these programs.
http://www.floridast.../bf/homepac.htm
Unfortunately all of these state scholarship programs are in decline with the economy and it is going to be a tough sell to get any expansion to cover homeschoolers. I understand not taking the parent's word for the GPA, but there are logical alternative ways to make this work such as taking the GPA from freshman year in college, taking the GPA from dual enrollment, etc.
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Regarding graduation rates, while it is really depressing on the one hand to see so many students not graduating or taking six years, I also think this is an area where knowledge is power. Some colleges do a much better job at advising than others and it is important not to just assume your kid is on track. In my opinion if you are paying the bills you have a right to compel your children to provide progress reports. I strongly advise that parents set their expectations and talk about college graduation rates before their kids enter college.
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Yes, we all go into the car dealership knowing that the price is not the price. We know it's the same with college. But the car dealer doesn't ask you for your tax returns. And the value of your house. And the rules are a lot simpler.
The rumor has always been that the car dealer runs credit checks when you are out doing the test drive. My friend who worked at a car dealership said that was indeed practice where he worked, but I don't think it is legal so I'm not sure how widespread it is.
The two biggest things that are hurting families with the EFC is that 1. it assumes your wages have been similar over time so you should have saved at the level deemed appropriate for your current wages. That's big trouble if you now have two earners after years of having just one. 2. The EFC doesn't consider debt. So, if you are in debt (whether it was to pay for an excessive lifestyle, whether you live in an area with expensive housing or if it was to pay for your cancer treatment) you are equally hurt.
If you save money for college, on average the bill will be higher.This is complicated and there is often a lot of misunderstanding around this issue. There is a personal allowance and there are other ways to save including the retirement scenario you mentioned. Just for other folks reading I don't want people to get the idea that all saving is bad. If you haven't saved you aren't going to be able to meet your EFC. Here's an good article on the topic: http://www.thecollegesolution.com/is-the-money-in-your-college-account-a-ticking-money-bomb/
Barbara: The other issue in rising costs is that two of the biggest ticket costs for colleges have risen much faster than the rate of inflation. Those are the costs of health care (for employees) and the cost of energy (for heating all those big old buildings).Sorry, I'm not buying it. This is an issue for most businesses. You don't see costs of all goods and services rising at these rates.
There's quite a bit of research on this. Colleges are affected disproportionately because those costs are a larger portion of their costs and they have risen so dramatically. Too big to dig into here, but to really look at how the rates have risen we should be looking at netprice not sticker price. Particularly at private colleges, scholarships are the norm so the net price is nowhere near the listed sticker price and few people pay that sticker price.
If you are homeschooled? If you TAKE courses at the CC - honors courses - as a high school student and score in the top 1% of students? (Note - the kids at the high school can take 'em for free. We pay the full rate.) If your test scores place you at the TOP of high school graduates in this state? If the state has never had to spend ONE RED CENT to get you there, guess what? NOPE! That scholarship option is not available to you. You don't qualify.Yes, that's a total rip off. We have a similar (though smaller scale) issue in our state where part of our state scholarship is based on GPA and homeschoolers are not eligible to get that, even if they had 60 hours perfect 4.0 GPA at at he state university as a dual enrolled student. But, a lesser GPA from a for poor quality high school in courses that are not really college prep courses, would earn the scholarship.
I'm wondering if homeschoolers have done any lobbying around this issue. In some states there are alternative means of qualifying for GPA based scholarships such as basing them retroactively on the first year college GPA.
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Harvard, OTOH, claims to give generous financial aid to accepted students from families below a certain income level, but I'm not sure how need-blind their admissions truly are.
Harvard really is need blind, but the number of truly need blind schools is very low. Also there is a reality that it is very difficult for very low income students to actually be academically competitive for admissions at the sorts of schools that profess to be need blind. In very rural areas of my state even the very best, most talented public school students are largely not going to have available the academic opportunities to develop into viable candidates for these schools. They may not have access to APs, academic extracurriculars, or even a calculus course in high school.
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The other issue in rising costs is that two of the biggest ticket costs for colleges have risen much faster than the rate of inflation. Those are the costs of health care (for employees) and the cost of energy (for heating all those big old buildings).
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And, the price of milk isn't really the price of milk because there is government involvement in the form of dairy subsidies. It is far from clear cut.
I agree though - it is crazy as a middle class person when you first see the sticker price of college. You have to stop and say something here just doesn't seem right.
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Why is that? One reason is likely because many times that merit aid merely brings the price down to that of a state school before a state school's merit aid. Dd received the largest application based scholarship at Elizabethtown College, but it merely brings the price down from $46K to $24K. She won't be giong unless she gets the STAMPS scholarship, which isn't likely as it only goes to 5 students. They have no idea what our income is or what class we're in as they've never met us in person.
There are some schools who give a lot of aid to most of their accepted students, but dd didn't apply to enough of those, partly because some of them were for women only, and some just didn't have much of a math department.
They do it because it helps them fill their goal which is to create the strongest (highest test scores, best grades) and most balanced class of students (with a variety of talents academic and extracurricular). They want to spend the dollars they have in the best way possible to get the students they want to get. Most people like to get a deal and very few people want to pay full price for a more expensive private school. So, often even for weak students there are some very small token scholarships because it gives parents something to talk about. They gave your daughter a lot of money because they can see she's a strong enough student to get solid offers elsewhere as well. The whole field of enrollment management, as it is called, is fascinating. Not to creep you out, but they actually probably know a fair amount about the demographics of your family based on your address.
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My post disappeared... . We don't actually all pay the same price for all consumer goods. Think about the passengers on a plane. They've paid wildly different fares based on when and how they booked, how much leg room they want, if they are getting points back on their credit cards, etc. The airline needs to fill the seats of the plane and they take a variety of approaches to do that.
Also, what surprises many people is that one of the biggest beneficiaries of sticker price discounts in the form of merit scholarships are middle and upper class students who receive merit scholarships particularly from small liberal arts colleges. At many of these schools the merit offers aren't just going to those tippy top students but in actuality to most students.
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Very smart move to pay the interest on the unsubsidized loans while she's on college. It will make a huge difference.
I agree with the suggestion to meet with the financial aid office if possible. They are a resource that is often underutilized.
The best website for information about loans is http://www.finaid.org/loans/ I'm not sure they have exactly what you are looking for, but hopefully you can find something helpful.
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For understandable reasons there is always a lot of stress and tension on college financing threads!
I wanted to offer a little caution about the idea of lowering your estimated family contribution. That is a number that is calculated primarily on fixed factors (such as income) that most of us don't have a lot of control over. For some upper income families who have more complex financial pictures such as owning a business, it may make sense to get some financial advising but be really careful about who you select because there are a lot of financial advisors out there who know very little about college and really primarily interested in selling loan products. For the vast majority of middle class families who have a pretty straight forward financial situation, it is typically not going to be possible lower your estimated family contribution significantly but you may be able to lower your costs (see the next paragraph). There are people who get really into trying to game the financial aid system by hiding assets and so forth, but for your average middle class family that's really not going to get you anywhere. Your time would be better spent helping your child build a strong academic profile and putting very careful consideration into their college list and final decision making.
Also, Talk openly with your kids about college costs and don't want until January of senior year when they've fallen in love with a dream school. There really is no such thing as a "perfect" school or one right way to begin adult life. There are many paths to a good adult life.
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I don't think she has to attend a high price summer program. If she's looking for summer opportunities I would look at programs that offer financial aid or at lower cost community programs.
A few ideas for building her art experience (without breaking the bank).
1. Look for community organizations where artists meet together to share their work.
2. Consider volunteer opportunities that are are related - such as an art organization for at risk kids, art for adults with disabilities, volunteering with an art program at a senior center.
3. Start a blog where she documents and shares her artwork - or join other existing communities and do the same thing.
4. Explore dual enrollment if that's an option in your area - she'd probably get more out of a semester long sculpture class than a couple week long summer program.
5. Look for opportunities for her to show her work - perhaps through the library or other community organization.
My other suggestion would be to begin now to look really carefully at her college options for art study. Art school tends to be very expensive with fewer sources of financial aid and scholarships. I would encourage her to look at the possibility of majoring in art at a public university or small liberal arts college as they may offer a better financial options than art school.
Best of luck and hope this helps.
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Choose
2. Never attended college/1st year.
They want to know he is a transfer student and he is not.
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Every kid is different. just to add our one little data point - therapeutic horse riding and physical therapy accomplished a lot more for us. We had very good OTs, it was just that the specific activities of PT and riding were better for core and trunk stability and those turned out to be most fundamental.
I do think if you aren't seeing the results you expect it is good to question what's working and consider trying something new. If you have not shared your concerns with the OT I would encourage you to do so.
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Hello,
You've gotten a lot of good advice. It isn't for everyone, but it worked well for us not to do multiple years of the same science. So, we didn't do a year of bio and then a year of AP bio. We just went straight to AP bio. The same thing worked well for us with chemistry. It worked in part though because we did self designed courses and we had control over the pacing. If your student is going straight into a structured AP course online, it would be good to get some foundation or budget some extra time for the course. One thing I would suggest on sequencing is to make sure your student has a good foundation in chemistry before they do AP bio because otherwise they can really struggle with the earlier material.
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Congrats! That's very exciting!
I would suggest that your daughter contact them and ask if there is a suggested word limit. If not, around 500-600 words each would probably be a good ballpark to aim for.
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No worries. I reread my OP. I did mention community colleges at first, but I my experience and example was with a university. I should have been clearer.
Ok, now I see what the problem is- lol. Definately university dual-enrollment over cc. That may be why none of my students had an issue with credits. Thanks for the clarification.
I know this stuff can be confusing... but I don't think the difference is that it is a four year college versus a community college, I suspect it has more to do with the colleges your students are applying to. If they looked at out of state or more selective schools, it would likely be a different situation. It is true that Grand Canyon is regionally accredited, but it is also a for profit religious college that is going to have courses that are very different than what will be offered at more selective schools. Some selective schools will not give credit for any dual enrollment course that was used to meet a high school requirements. Others don't grant transfer credits at all. Some of these same schools WILL give credit for APs.
Unless governed by an articulation agreement, each college will make their own assessment of what credits will be awarded and if the credits will meet requirements. Sometimes students don't understand that elective credits probably won't do a lot for you - if it doesn't meet a general education or major requirement it probably isn't going to really help you very much.
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When I worked as the curriculum director for a charter district in AZ, I didn't even consider AP courses for my students. I chose to offer students dual-enrollment courses through Grand Canyon University. They are taught by their instructors so the credit cannot be rejected because it is from an accredited university.
The college being accredited doesn't guarantee that other colleges will grant credit for the course. Some colleges never award transfer credits. Most do an individual assessment of the courses and decide on a case by case basis. They may grant only a limited number of credits or determine that credits will be just general credits or they will meet specific requirements. In some states there are what are called "articulation agreements" and these spell out how colleges will treat credits from other institutions. Unless the school is governed by an articulation agreement you really have no idea how those credits will be granted.
There are a lot of variables and individual factors that vary from one institution to another... but particularly with selective colleges, AP credits may actually net more in the way of than community college credits.
Both dual enrollment credits and APs can be useful and can result in credit. Also, is not an all or nothing decision - many of our kids do a combination.
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On a policy level there are certainly problems and limitations with the AP system right now. There are a too many students who take AP classes but are unable to pass the tests. In our local schools it seems like the decision ends up being APs or classes with unmotivated students. Too many APs can be stressful particularly during junior year.
That said, I suggest looking strategically at what AP courses can do for your homeschool and making an individual decision based on the needs of your kids. I disagree with the claim of the article that few colleges provide credit or that the credit is meaningless for most students. APs can help improve a homeschoolers profile for admissions and scholarships. Even many selective colleges grant credit for APs. Placing out of courses can allow a student more flexibility for more challenging courses earlier graduation, a double major, study abroad, etc. Particularly for kids who go to state universities careful planning with APs can be a big benefit. I'm not suggesting every student should take APs, but I think it would be foolish for homeschoolers to dismiss the option because there are problems on a policy level.
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Yes, it is upsetting stuff. This is a really fascinating and disturbing article that is worth reading. http://chronicle.com/article/The-Shadow-Scholar/125329/
Minor point, but just for what it is worth, our state university does implement a variety of security measures in the big lecture hall type testing situations. Those include - multiple copies of the test, assigned seating, extra TAs and staff to supervise and checking photo ID.
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I still think life turns out the best when the student is "matched" with something they are happy doing and good at - whether it makes a Top 10 list or not.
Yes, I definitely agree. Nobody should choose their life off a top ten list and nobody should assume job prospects are good because they read it in an article. The value I see in these lists is they are a good conversation starter with teenagers. Don't take it as the end point, take it as the beginning point. Many teens think really narrowly about careers and only consider a few very well known careers - doctor, lawyer, teacher, firefighter, and maybe singer or sports star! Yet, the adults I meet so often have unusual jobs I'd never heard of before - industrial psychologist, book indexer, web security, respiratory therapist, equine nutrition specialist, etc.
Also, I'm glad to see community colleges get some press. 43% of college students go to community and technical colleges and these are options that deserve more consideration and discussion.
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This article from Forbes may be of interest to homeschool high schoolers who are considering a two year degree. http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/12/18/the-10-best-paying-jobs-for-community-college-grads/ This may help get a conversation started about career options.
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If you have not already done so, I'd suggest looking to see if your Internet provider includes anything "free" as part of your service. Some offer software like McAfee but many customers aren't aware they just need to download it.
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Wow, that looks amazing. Printing the recipe - thanks for posting it!
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